Business Class Discussion - Seats/IFE/General Thoughts etc

[lovestotravel]

We have quite a few threads going on about VA's new J class and they tend to go Off Topic, so I'll start my ramble in here again...

We know that VA has launched J class and it's debatable how it's working for them. Loads appear to be very load, but yields on flights are up.

From another thread and to start this off in relation to poor loads:

Let's pick MEL-SYD on Monday 23rd April

Total of 24 flights

7 of those flights don't have J.... That's problem number 1. The busiest route and you have a mis-match of products. The 737-700's should be stuck on specific routes as much as possible and not where the corporate market is likely to encounter it.

Only 4 of the remaining flights have more than 1 J seat currently booked

10 flights have NO J seats currently booked.....This is for a flight that is 2 days away on the busiest and most "corporate" route :shock:

I suggest lots of op-ups are occurring....

actually there are lots of op ups occuring.. I had an extremely apologetic (but not that she did it on the flight) CS, flying from BNE - SYD lunch time. I got moved out of my 1A seat (checked-in) shouldn't have been moved. Got put into 2F. Anyhow i got served last, got my meal which i had for no more about 5-6 mins, and they took away due to landing.. I spoke up at the end, (was a full J cabin) she looked at the manifest i was the ONLY full paying J. Every other seat was upgraded. Had similar problems on other flights.. Also had a flight with no catering in J and many other issues as being highlighted!

Given the 50% discounts given for Flexi's to upgrade and that there are many reports of "random" op up's, it makes it even harder to fork out the extra $300-$1000 for a J seat when if you are Gold/Platinum you may end up in J anyway!

I know we are going OT here, but I do have grave concerns for the future of J unless the price is dropped (unlikely) or food improved greatly (likely).

I loved VA's J at the start, but the novelty and cool factor is wearing off.... The crew are mostly great, but seats are average and the food is a joke.

A consistent product is something else that is affecting loads and I know lots of people not happy about it... .Now, it's only getting worse, with the new A330's in a true long-haul configuration.

Some planes have Live2Air
Some planes have the new Boeing Sky Interior
Some planes have no IFE at all
Some planes are not even refitted
Then you have the E Jets
Then the ex Emirates A330's in a nice configuration
Now the new A330 is added with the VA Long-Haul configuration

My suggestion in the mean-time is to reduce the price of J until you gain some momentum, and improve the food NOW. Having flights where food has been "not loaded" is not acceptable. Fix the J menu NOW, and change the Y menu... I am sure most people are sick of the New Yorker. I know I am and I am flying in J most times.

Medium term, IFE, and better J seats

Long term - A consistent product on all domestic aircraft.... I am not sure what the new A330's are going to do but a full lie flat is a bit much just for Australian domestic flights, I suspect these planes will end up flying some Asian routes.

My final thoughts:

Virgin Australia should have gone for the Virgin America setup for the whole plane in my opinion! Discount seats at the back, flexi's in the middle and a proper J class at the front with FULL IFE and WiFi throughout!

I know Virgin America started off from the ground with their product, whereas VA are trying to change their existing LCC product into a premium product.

However delivering brand new planes with no IFE is not a good sign, WiFi towards the end of the year will help, but there is no way to charge your tablet/device as no in-seat power is fitted and to do this is a big task which I don't see happening.


J on Virgin America

Virgin Australia - 176 Seats
SeatGuru Seat Map Virgin Australia Boeing 737-800 Business Class



Virgin America - 149 Seats
SeatGuru Seat Map Virgin America Airbus A320 (320)

 

[lovestotravel]

Now, as this was the second round of J seats I've been in I don't know whether the shine was off compared to the first time around, but both flights, and especially the BNE-DRW one, seemed inferior to the first round, in food quality, quantity, and the service seemed a bit lower too. Now I can accept the latter is probably due to the fact there was 4-5 more people than last time, but why the reduction in every other capacity is beyond me.

No I agree with you! My first J flight early this year and I was very happy, but after a few more flights it just seemed to lack the same appeal......

I think VA have gone for the "cool" factor but that appeal never lasts long. It's like having a super hot girlfriend whom you have nothing in common with.... Long term it's just not conductive to a good relationship!

 

[Justinf]

I think that often, the most complex of questions can be solved with a simple answer.
Is the current J class value for money? I will find out first hand tomorrow, but going from what I have read here, then it's a no.
Is the Virgin America product value for money? I can answer this first-hand. Yes.
At the end of the day, punters won't shell out their hard earned into something they don't feel provides with what they are paying for.

 

[smit0847]

Agree that the Virgin America model should have been adopted rather than what they have now - I would argue VX is the most modern and progressive airline in the world - I was absolutely blown away with them when I travelled on them. Unless you have travelled on them you probably don't really understand what I mean (soul music playing at check-in? Why not?!?).

I was disappointed with my VA J redemption experience but I think I just got a bad day and crew. I would never pay the full J price of any airline so cant comment on their own pricing - I think ll J full price is not worth it.

People have their little grumbles about various things - for example in antithesis to the OP I think the seats are excellent for short hops. The lack of IFE and the inconsistency between aircraft types is definitely a huge problem for VA. I still think the VA DOM J is better than QF and will make a dent in QF's corporate market (the status match was an absolute master-stroke IMO) but the J product is far from perfect and I cant see them ever having more than a couple of full-paying J pax on each 738 flight.

I believe in VA and the direction it is taking (as my life is now moving into a direction where I can choose premium carriers over LCC so its a good fit for me) - they've had some big wins, but overall the intro of J has seemed 'just okay'. Their international product (long and short haul) has just as many issues as QF's.

 

[lovestotravel]

I will add in that I do support VA in J and the recent changes to a "full service carrier" and will do so for about 1/3 of my flights now..... The rest will just be in Y or with Qantas in J/Y

I actually booked 2 more MEL-OOL-MEL flights today on VA in J... but at full retail price and no double status credits I would not bother.

As it stands I get 25% off with American Express and I was targeted for Double Status Credits so at the moment it's great value for retaining platinum for 2013/2014... But if/when the 25% off finishes and the double status credits at the end of June it's going to be very hard to justify the price in J for the current product!

 

[ash.1111]

Have you actually flown Virgin America's first class? It's not that great. Besides their seat and IFE, the product isn't as good as Virgin Australia. Food and service is much better IMHO.

 

[lovestotravel]

Have you actually flown Virgin America's first class? It's not that great. Besides their seat and IFE, the product isn't as good as Virgin Australia. Food and service is much better IMHO.

Yes 6 flights with them!

To me the seat is more important than the food, and Virgin American wins hands down on that many times over.
IFE - Virgin America easily wins
WiFi - Virgin America easily wins for now, but Virgin Australia will have that over the next 12-18 months
Food and drinks - Virgin America again wins, mainly for having Bailey's available....A nice way to finish a meal for me, especially late in the evening.

Let us not forget that someone at Virgin Australia removed spirits from the menu back in August last year....

 

[pat25d]

Let us not forget that someone at Virgin Australia removed spirits from the menu back in August last year....

Not on board... the Mocktail with Vodka is my favourite drink in VA J.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Not on board... the Mocktail with Vodka is my favourite drink in VA J.

Mocktails with or without vodka were not available in August last year.

 

[pat25d]

Mocktails with or without vodka were not available in August last year.

Neither was Business Class...

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Neither was Business Class...

You corrected lovestotravel after the comment was made "someone at Virgin Australia removed the spirits from the menu back in August last year" with the quip "Not on board.....the mocktail with vodka is my favourite drink in VA J".

 

[pat25d]

You corrected lovestotravel after the comment was made "someone at Virgin Australia removed the spirits from the menu back in August last year" with the quip "Not on board.....the mocktail with vodka is my favourite drink in VA J".

And my statement is still true.

Spirits were not taken off the on-board menu last August.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

And my statement is still true.

Spirits were not taken off the on-board menu last August.

Ye have such a short memory........................

Thanks to serfty, here's a screen shot of the pre-August menu..........

Here's the August "new menu" thanks to DJ-1D.......

The new menu is here and they've killed a lot of the better products. At least so far as I can see. No more G&Ts , no more flatbread crisps. No booze at all except beer and wine. The only new thing I saw was a Pastrami sandwich, which I didn't try because I had a big lunch.

Here's the menu:

And last but not least........here's VAs response the to outcry..........

More of less.

Yes we have made changes to our menu as noted by many of you.

We've reviewed which menu items were most popular. So with that in mind, we have removed certain products that weren't selling, or required additional handling time such as mixing spirits and the hot chocolate. Changes due to space have also been made eg. the large ginger beer bottle, to a slim line can. Ditto Crown Lager tall bottle, to the Pure Blonde can.

We value everyone's opinions, as you are all entitled to them, so rest assured you have been heard.

We just ask for a little leeway as we tweak to get things right.

Thanks

(For the record, the DJ AFF official company rep isn't a fan of mushrooms either.)

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I think the point lovestotravel was making, is such a short time ago, someone responsable for F&B at DJ made a very poor F&B decision (well, some would argue numerous) especially with regard to the spirits. The most complaints about the current DJ flexi & J product seems to be about the quality and consistency of the F&B delivery. Yes, spirits have been readded to the DJ offering after being taken off, but it's just a small part in a longish line of F&B faux pas at DJ. Maybe they need to shift their current F&B manager elsewhere.

 

[maninblack]

Simple to me. Virgin are delivering a pretty ordinary J product at the moment and it needs fixing immediately or they will not only lose customers but fail to gain new ones.
Poor seat
No in seat power
No decent IFE
Inconsistent and generally poor F & B service
Friendly but pretty klutzy staff

 

[pat25d]

Ye have such a short memory........................

Thanks to serfty, here's a screen shot of the pre-August menu..........

Here's the August "new menu" thanks to DJ-1D.......

And last but not least........here's VAs response the to outcry..........

So when did they put it back on again because it is on there now.

Just check the menu on their website.

 

[lovestotravel]

I think the point lovestotravel was making, is such a short time ago, someone responsable for F&B at DJ made a very poor F&B decision (well, some would argue numerous) especially with regard to the spirits. The most complaints about the current DJ flexi & J product seems to be about the quality and consistency of the F&B delivery. Yes, spirits have been readded to the DJ offering after being taken off, but it's just a small part in a longish line of F&B faux pas at DJ. Maybe they need to shift their current F&B manager elsewhere.

Exactly right, someone made the "smart" decision to remove spirits and they were in-fact removed for a short period of time, as backed up by screenshots provided

Now I assume they crunched the numbers, and decided that carrying around the spirits was not providing much revenue for them, hence they removed it. However, to re-introduce spirits after some social media rage, is interesting. It shows they are either listening OR the numbers were not crunched correctly... It's an interesting one that's for sure.

Now as to your other point, the "F&B Manager" seems to not really have a clue to be honest.

The J menu is just silly, along with the snacks (cheese/grapes) - Hot food should be an option on ALL flights! If cost is an issue raise the price by $5 per ticket and allow for some wastage!
The Y menu is boring and still no breakfast items and needs an update again

Again, Virgin needs to get this right and now, as the only alternative in a few years will be Jetstar.............

 

[EuroKick]

It's a tricky discussion. Many improvements to be had.

But, look at the bigger picture. It's going to take years for everything to settle in. I think the first real taste of the 'new' Virgin Australia will be when they finish renovating the Melbourne Airport terminal. I've seen a few pics, and it's very Virgin America meets The Lounge. I think everyone will be impressed. Very modern, funky yet professional.

 

[greenfish]

It's a tricky discussion. Many improvements to be had.

But, look at the bigger picture. It's going to take years for everything to settle in. I think the first real taste of the 'new' Virgin Australia will be when they finish renovating the Melbourne Airport terminal. I've seen a few pics, and it's very Virgin America meets The Lounge. I think everyone will be impressed. Very modern, funky yet professional.

Some better lounges would be good, but lounge access does not require business class travel. The issue here is Virgin's business class on the 737 and Embraer. It just doesn't cut the mustard.

It is pretty expensive (perhaps 5x the cost of a saver, and twice the cost of a flexi on many routes), but delivers very little. It doesn't approach the standard of Jetstar's international business class, which is pretty embarrassing really.

Once you look past the pretty purple screen (or gray curtains in the Embraer), the product offers very very little. Fixing the F&B would cost nothing compared to the ticket premium they're currently charging.

Then they need to add IFE (how much can this cost for 8 seats?), in-seat power and perhaps a unique selling proposition such as in-flight internet - apologies as I realise this has all been said before in this thread, but it does bother me - having flown BNE-ADL return twice this week on Virgin in Y, I have had too much time to observe what needs improving!

 

[greenfish]

Also, what is the "true" value of the J seat? Given the ongoing 25% discount from Amex for J, and the heavy discounts on federal government DJ J seats (DJ are vastly cheaper than QF and DJs retail website on CWT), perhaps DJ are tacitly acknowledging the poor value the existing product presents.

Over the past year, I've had a few J flights on QF. It has been consistently good. Today, flying back from ADL, the 737-700 became a 737-800 - and I was bumped from 2C to 4C - and I didn't really care. The DJ J product is just so ordinary. Cheese platter anyone?