Business Class Europe to Australia

[magicgeoff]

Hi,
MattG recently posted an article about the great value business class flights from Sweden to Australia return with Singapore Airlines and Qatar. And how affordable they are when ticketed this way.
But for those of us living in Australia and New Zealand, how would such tickets ever be practical?

Regards
Geoff

 

[juddles]

Hi there Geoff,

the short answer is that they are not feasible/practical for anyone doing a single trip Australia to Europe and return.

But they can be used if you are doing multiple trips - the simplest example is if you are doing two return trips Sydney to Helsinki. You buy one ticket starting in Sydney, which serves the first leg of the first trip. The return of that ticket you make to be the return leg of the second trip. The second ticket you buy starts in Helsinki, the first leg of this being the return of your first trip. The second part of this ticket (returning to Helsinki) is the first leg of your second trip. This is called "nesting".

It works very well for those that do many trips per year. It can also be used if over a few years you do a regular annual trip.

Does this make sense?

 

[magicgeoff]

Thanks Juddles, believe it or not I do understand your explaination.
So yes really suits a frequent flyer. Cool trick though.
Thanks again

 

[LadyC]

As juddles said, you need to be a more than once a year traveller. And often this deals are only for the next few months so they are no good if you are planning 12 months in advance. There are also some good ones ex-Asia into Australia return. I found a fare earlier today with Garuda for HKG-MEL business class return for just under $1100USD!

 

[Forg]

You can still get China Airlines return to Europe in J for ~$4k return.
Food’s not great, lounges are average (shower arrangement good & very clean), hard-product is about as good as you get (A350’s are ridiculously quiet & comfy, plenty of room for over-6-footers to sleep), service is good, IFE is bring-your-own if possible, only the one flight change in Taipei.
But IMHO great value c/f SQ or QF Premium Economy ... I don’t think I’ve ever slept a solid 7hrs on a ‘plane before!

 

[opusman]

You buy one ticket starting in Sydney, which serves the first leg of the first trip. The return of that ticket you make to be the return leg of the second trip

Alternatively, if you are making multiple trips over a longer period, you start with a simple one-way award ticket to Europe. Then you simply buy Europe->Australia return tickets as and when needed. Only works if you make regular trips though, as when you're home in Australia you will always have another trip back to Europe ticketed.

 

[craven morehead]

AY Finnair I find to have a great product and very reasonable pricing when on special for circa $5-5.5k flying J ( Business ) via Asia to HEL and then just a short hop across to anywhere in Europe.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Air China had a couple sales last year with business class return from Europe to Australia for $1825 return (1150 Euros). Great value if you can use it. Essentially a tiny surcharge for a full flat bed (catering is nothing to write home about).

One thing to look out for with 'nesting' tickets is that some travel insurances won't cover this type of arrangement - they often require you have a return ticket purchases before you leave Australia, and arrival back in Australia on the inbound will be the end of your insurance cover. ANZ platinum CC insurance works this way (doesn't allow nesting).

Shouldn't be a problem if you have an annual multi-trip policy, but as always, check the PDS.

 

[sydunipete]

I travel once a year Sydney Stockholm return in J trying to spend summer in each place. I booked a one way award flight SYD -> ARN and now I’m saving considerably and flying SQ instead of CA. Just once a year keeps me qualified for TK gold thus taking some pain out of local trips in Y. TK also allows family pooling between spouses so even a once a year flyer can earn a usable points balance before they expire. Assuming you can predict your travel plans it’s a winner, and if you can’t a $250 USD change fee still saves you money.

 

[Helena Novak]

You can still get China Airlines return to Europe in J for ~$4k return.
Food’s not great, lounges are average (shower arrangement good & very clean), hard-product is about as good as you get (A350’s are ridiculously quiet & comfy, plenty of room for over-6-footers to sleep), service is good, IFE is bring-your-own if possible, only the one flight change in Taipei.
But IMHO great value c/f SQ or QF Premium Economy ... I don’t think I’ve ever slept a solid 7hrs on a ‘plane before!

I flew on CA's A350 in June 2018. The hard product was amazing and the food out of Vienna was the best J or even F food I've ever had. But only out of Vienna, due their famous catering. I was going to book the same trip with CA this month but the flights had been rescheduled and required cca. 18 hours layover in Taipei. No free accommodation offered by CA. Shame. Because I do not like Taipei airport I have bought a ticket with Korean Air instead. Paid $4850 for J SYD - VIE return. There is a long layover on the outbound flight but Korean offers a free accommodation with meals. I have never flown with Korean before and I see 2 drawbacks: Taipei to Vienna has a 2-3-2 layout and so I wonder whether we will be squashed together; Korean leaves Sydney at 07:45 am which demands an early rise out of bed. Perhaps they have such an early departure time because it is cheaper for them to use the airport in the early morning hours.

 

[sydunipete]

[QUOTE="

One thing to look out for with 'nesting' tickets is that some travel insurances won't cover this type of arrangement - they often require you have a return ticket purchases before you leave Australia, and arrival back in Australia on the inbound will be the end of your insurance cover. ANZ platinum CC insurance works this way (doesn't allow nesting).

[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the tip. I read the PDS then rang up CBA regarding their "free" travel insurance. There was one mention of a return ticket, but not in a limiting way and the agent confirmed no return ticket was required. I would be more comfortable if this was in writing though.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I flew on CA's A350 in June 2018. The hard product was amazing and the food out of Vienna was the best J or even F food I've ever had. But only out of Vienna, due their famous catering. I was going to book the same trip with CA this month but the flights had been rescheduled and required cca. 18 hours layover in Taipei. No free accommodation offered by CA. Shame. Because I do not like Taipei airport I have bought a ticket with Korean Air instead. Paid $4850 for J SYD - VIE return. There is a long layover on the outbound flight but Korean offers a free accommodation with meals. I have never flown with Korean before and I see 2 drawbacks: Taipei to Vienna has a 2-3-2 layout and so I wonder whether we will be squashed together; Korean leaves Sydney at 07:45 am which demands an early rise out of bed. Perhaps they have such an early departure time because it is cheaper for them to use the airport in the early morning hours.

Just a minor correction in case people get confused - CA = Air China (mainland) whereas CI would be the designator for China Airlines (Taiwan province).

As for your KE ticket - I'm guessing you mean Seoul to Vienna is 2-3-2? That flight is indeed operated by a Boeing 777-200 with a 2-3-2 in business class. The key is to select one of the pairs of two. But also note the setas are not fully horizontal - they have a slight angle, although they are *almost* horizontal (same seats as Egyptair on their 777s which are much better than 'regular' angled lie flats (like say offered on the Qantas unrefurbished A330s))

 

[Forg]

Just a minor correction in case people get confused - CA = Air China (mainland) whereas CI would be the designator for China Airlines (Taiwan province).

While ‘mainland’ China would love to hear you referring to Taiwan as a ‘province’, I dunno that Taiwan would be all that excited to be considered a province of “communist” China.

I wouldn’t have bought China Airlines (CI) tickets until I realised they weren’t actually a Chinese airline (with all the unashamed corner-cutting that’s involved).

 

[Helena Novak]

Just a minor correction in case people get confused - CA = Air China (mainland) whereas CI would be the designator for China Airlines (Taiwan province).

As for your KE ticket - I'm guessing you mean Seoul to Vienna is 2-3-2? That flight is indeed operated by a Boeing 777-200 with a 2-3-2 in business class. The key is to select one of the pairs of two. But also note the setas are not fully horizontal - they have a slight angle, although they are *almost* horizontal (same seats as Egyptair on their 777s which are much better than 'regular' angled lie flats (like say offered on the Qantas unrefurbished A330s))

Thanks for your your correction on CA/CI. Also for the warning that the seats are not fully flat. I will probably finish sliding down for the long leg from Soul to Vienna. And, of course, I have booked an aisle seat - convenient for me to get up but the person next to me will have to climb over me. Small problem, not a tragedy. As it will be a long haul straight out of Vienna, I hope that the catering will be done by the excellent DO&CO Viennese caterer. CI used them and it was a great added value to the flight.
I travel to Vienna regularly and try to use Skyteam airlines because the CZ SkyPearl FFP I belong to is really good. Easy upgrades and redemptions, lounge access already from Silver Level. I would like to try Vietnam Airlines next time as they have good reviews but for flight to Vienna I might need to book through a TA, as it was impossible via airline's website and the airline's office also could not do it.
I had used CZ flights via Paris or Amsterdam but found that 2 stops made it very long and tiring. Plus the last leg, when I am already tired, is flown in the not-so-comfortable business class of intra-Europe flights. Austria is just too small to attract many direct long haul flights and so my choices are limited. I am also Thai FF but find their FFP stingier than the CZ one, and Thai business cabin (out of Sydney) is not very good.
I am watching the news about the possible CZ change of alliance as that would give me new airlines to opt for while collecting FF points with CZ programme. Apart of regular Vienna flights, I like having holidays in more exotic places in Central Asia and CZ services these routes. Nice to get there via Asia rather than via Europe and then backtracking to Central Asia.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Hi there Geoff,

the short answer is that they are not feasible/practical for anyone doing a single trip Australia to Europe and return.

But they can be used if you are doing multiple trips - the simplest example is if you are doing two return trips Sydney to Helsinki. You buy one ticket starting in Sydney, which serves the first leg of the first trip. The return of that ticket you make to be the return leg of the second trip. The second ticket you buy starts in Helsinki, the first leg of this being the return of your first trip. The second part of this ticket (returning to Helsinki) is the first leg of your second trip. This is called "nesting".

It works very well for those that do many trips per year. It can also be used if over a few years you do a regular annual trip.

Does this make sense?

It also works best if you know your exact dates for travel well in advance.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks for your your correction on CA/CI. Also for the warning that the seats are not fully flat. I will probably finish sliding down for the long leg from Soul to Vienna.

The good news is that they are actually almost flat. Only a couple airlines took up this option, Egyptair and Korean being two of them. They take up a lot of room though, so they could have almost installed full flats in the same space.

 

[downloadingdata]

While ‘mainland’ China would love to hear you referring to Taiwan as a ‘province’, I dunno that Taiwan would be all that excited to be considered a province of “communist” China.

I wouldn’t have bought China Airlines (CI) tickets until I realised they weren’t actually a Chinese airline (with all the unashamed corner-cutting that’s involved).

Fwiw CI historically has a much worse safety record than chinese carriers, or most carriers around the world for that matter. Its becoming better these days but you do wonder if the factors behind those accidents have been resolved or its a matter of luck.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Fwiw CI historically has a much worse safety record than chinese carriers, or most carriers around the world for that matter. Its becoming better these days but you do wonder if the factors behind those accidents have been resolved or its a matter of luck.

It has been around 20 years of a fairly clean record. The 747 break up in mid air was a similar repair fault as suffered by the JAL 747 following a tail strike 22 years earlier. The old airport at Hong Kong was a factor in a couple of other accidents, but that’s no longer an issue.

I think the mainland carriers would have a lot to lose if they were considered ‘unsafe’, something I’m sure the government would be keen to avoid.

 

[Richard Kruse]

Hi,
MattG recently posted an article about the great value business class flights from Sweden to Australia return with Singapore Airlines and Qatar. And how affordable they are when ticketed this way.
But for those of us living in Australia and New Zealand, how would such tickets ever be practical?

Regards
Geoff

Such tickets can be very practical.I am travelling in May Melbourne to London Business Class on a frequent flyer redemption. I have booked to return to Australia mid July from Milan flying Swiss Airlines Milan-Zurich-Singapore then Swiss(code share flight with Singapore Airlines) Singapore to Melbourne. The Business Class fare is $3916-booked on Swiss Airlines own website and I get a ticket Melbourne-Singapore-Zurich-Milan to fly back to Italy in November. If I wish to change my return to Italy there is a fee of EUR200. This is still a great bargain provided you are travelling to and from Europe at least twice within one year.

 

[TonyHancock]

If I wish to change my return to Italy there is a fee of EUR200.

Just be aware that it is a EUR200 fee plus any change in fare, but yes ex EU fares are remarkably good value - I am a veteran of 20+ over the last four years.