Call for airlines to charge passenger 'fat tax'

[davidj-bell]

How about insulin resistance? Taking certain medication for long periods of time also causes weight gain.

To the point of becoming morbidly obese?

Why do we continue having debate about charging overweight more for a seat or even something more ridiculous and charging people airfares based on their weight?

Probably because if the seats have to get wider, let's say 2-2 or 2-3 instead of 3-3, then less passengers mean less revenue, which means airfares would have to go up to compensate for the lost revenue. So it's either charging us all a little bit more, or else it's charging those who need the extra seat. Given the success of LCC business model, then the latter option is what will work commercially.

 

[JohnK]

To the point of becoming morbidly obese?

Yes it can happen to a lot of people

Probably because if the seats have to get wider, let's say 2-2 or 2-3 instead of 3-3, then less passengers mean less revenue, which means airfares would have to go up to compensate for the lost revenue. So it's either charging us all a little bit more, or else it's charging those who need the extra seat. Given the success of LCC business model, then the latter option is what will work commercially.

Instead of discriminating and more importantly humiliating some people I would be prepared to pay a few dollars extra. I am overweight and don't think I have ever inconvenienced anyone on a flight or anywhere else for that matter as I try to minimise the space I use to ensure that the person next to me is more comfortable.

I have also been on flights where the person next to me has been obese and I have felt inconvenienced. It does not happen very often.

What is worse is I have been on flights where the skinny person next to me has hogged the armrests, the skinny short person in front has reclined for the entire flight, the skinny person 3 rows back has put their 2 pieces of carry-on above my seat and I cannot find a place for my carry-on.

Who cares? Society is getting more and more overweight. Assuming an average weight of 80kgs a person so what if the 60kg person is subsidising the weight of the 100kg person? I really no see point in this debate except for those situations where a person cannot sit in their allocated seat because the person next to them takes up way too much space. This does not happen very often and can be handled diplomatically without humiliating passengers.

There is a simpler solution? How about if airlines installed some seats to cater for the larger sized person? When you get down to the back of a 747 the aircraft tapers down and the window side has 2 seats instead of 3. How about making these seats a little wider instead of leaving the gap that is there at the moment and only allocate the seats to larger size people first.

This just stinks as another cash grab by greedy airlines looking for anyway to maximise profits and boost executive bonuses....

 

[meloz]

"There is a simpler solution? How about if airlines installed some seats to cater for the larger sized person? When you get down to the back of a 747 the aircraft tapers down and the window side has 2 seats instead of 3. How about making these seats a little wider instead of leaving the gap that is there at the moment and only allocate the seats to larger size people first."

Perfect.

This would also cater for brides wearing their bridal gown on the way to their wedding. Just need to make sure there is no pesky skinny b@stards reclining in the immediate row in front. Maybe we should have a buffer zone of mid size non recliners.

Segregation went out with the no smoking policy.

Meloz

 

[11sjw]

davidj-bell,

Just a technicality here. You've said "Obesity isn't normnal" and "More than 50% of Australians are obese." Wouldn't ">50%" make it the norm? Not a good norm but a norm nonetheless. You can't have it both ways!!



Personally I'm 6'2" and 91kg so my BMI is 26 so I'm overweight but I fit in an economy seat with similar sized people on the 717/737 Pilbara cattle carriers without any issue.

In saying that I once had a 130-150kg (estimate) gent sit next to me for a Bris-LAX flight. As soon as we lifted off I moved. Would've been bloody uncomfortable if the flight was full.

 

[ChrisBNE]

There is a simpler solution? How about if airlines installed some seats to cater for the larger sized person? When you get down to the back of a 747 the aircraft tapers down and the window side has 2 seats instead of 3. How about making these seats a little wider instead of leaving the gap that is there at the moment and only allocate the seats to larger size people first.

I agree this is a plausable solution, unfortunately the majority of pax will prefer these seats (esp high tier flyers) and complain that the regular seating is inferior in seat width.

Being tall, I appreciate the additonal seat pitch of PE and J and the premium attracts for this benefit. So I understand that I have to pay for more space to be comfortable, why is that not so for those of us who are broad rather than tall? That being said, most J class products seat width aren't a great deal broader than the Y cabin, so in a way there is no benefit to wider pax to pay this premium.

What I see here is an opportunity - Qantas Big and Tall, a carrier with extra wide seats, super seat pitch and an all you can eat buffet!

 

[davidj-bell]

davidj-bell,

Just a technicality here. You've said "Obesity isn't normnal" and "More than 50% of Australians are obese." Wouldn't ">50%" make it the norm? Not a good norm but a norm nonetheless. You can't have it both ways!!

1) I never said that 50% of australians were obese, I said that that was the projected figure for 10-20 years, and stated that I don't really believe the figures.
2) If we must play these semantic games. There is a difference between "normal" and "average". Obesity is considered to be an unhealthy body shape, so therefore shoud not be considered a normal shape.

Personally I'm 6'2" and 91kg so my BMI is 26 so I'm overweight but I fit in an economy seat with similar sized people on the 717/737 Pilbara cattle carriers without any issue.

In saying that I once had a 130-150kg (estimate) gent sit next to me for a Bris-LAX flight. As soon as we lifted off I moved. Would've been bloody uncomfortable if the flight was full.

The point of this "tax" is that if you are so obese that you can not fit into your seat, then you should pay for another one, and not inconveniencing your neighbours. As you discovered on your flight, it obviously was an issue for you.

If you can fit into your seat comfortably, then there is no issue.

 

[JohnK]

Segregation went out with the no smoking policy.

Segregation? Unfortunately you have misunderstood the post....

 

[straitman]

Segregation? Unfortunately you have misunderstood the post....

There is a lot of that going around lately :!:

 

[harvyk]

What is worse is I have been on flights where the skinny person next to me has hogged the armrests, the skinny short person in front has reclined for the entire flight, the skinny person 3 rows back has put their 2 pieces of carry-on above my seat and I cannot find a place for my carry-on.

So true...

I've been on many flights where skinny people have sat next to me but did not care about the amount of space they are taking up, and the fact they where taking up my space too, and yet the larger people tended to be accutely aware that they are taking up additional space and are careful not to encrouch on yours.

The worst flight I have been on, it was a skinny person whom managed to use half my seat as well as their own for most of the flight. I kept asking them to move over, but they didn't care...

 

[pauly7]

No plans to follow suit here apparently.



Aussie airlines reject obesity policy

It will come here eventually, don't you worry.

 

[Natt]

You actually have to be quite large not fit in a seat

In excess of 135 kilos from my own experiences

The easiest answer is to allocate an aisle seat to bigger people

Much more comfortable as they have more room in one direction, although they would need to shift slighty to let the cart through, but that does not happen often

 

[harvyk]

It will come here eventually, don't you worry.

I don't know, it's a bit of a minefield here...

Based on this PDF doc - http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/upload/cl.uddls.pdf - page 5 - obesity is not actually considered a disability, however to quote

Obesity is not considered a disability under Victorian law but a person who experiences discrimination because of obesity may be able to make a complaint of discrimination on the basis of physical feature

So to put it simply, an airline would need to ensure that before they charged a person for a second seat, the person really will need that second seat, and there is absolutely no way the person could fit into a standard sized seat.

So simply looking at someones weight on check-in and stating that they are too heavy they need a second seat could leave the airline open to legal action, unless they take the person to the plane and double check first, and in that case a cleaver lawyer could point out that a skinny person would not have needed to check for bum in seat size and thus it would still be considered discrimination.

 

[NM]

So to put it simply, an airline would need to ensure that before they charged a person for a second seat, the person really will need that second seat, and there is absolutely no way the person could fit into a standard sized seat.

So they will need to install test seats in the check-in areas and ask passengers to test their "frame" in the test jig as they do with carry-on bags.

 

[JohnK]

Another way of embarassing people by weighing them or checking if they fit into a certain test seat at check-in time.

 

[samh004]

Another way of embarassing people by weighing them or checking if they fit into a certain test seat at check-in time.

No offence, but the alternative is embarrassing them after they’ve boarded when either another passenger complains or a FA judges them to be too big. If there’s no seats left then perhaps they have to get off the plane at that time.

I’d expect most overweight pax to have flown before, with very few being on their first flight, so they know they need two seats when checking in or booking their tickets, and not when they get into the seat.

There’s always going to be people who know they need 2 seats and don’t ask for a seat first, but they’ll risk the embarrassment in that case.

If you can fit in an airline seat as it is, you shouldn’t have anything to worry about, as this policy isn’t for you, it’s for those considerably bigger than you.

 

[JohnK]

I’d expect most overweight pax to have flown before, with very few being on their first flight, so they know they need two seats when checking in or booking their tickets, and not when they get into the seat.

Don't get me wrong I know some of them are experts. I came across this extremely overweight person sitting in the middle seat, I had the aisle seat, on a DJ flight and he tried everything possible to make me uncomfortable. The FA saw my discomfort and offered me the only other aisle seat on the flight a few rows back. This imbecile (I am trying to be nice and even this word is too nice) then moved over to the aisle seat and had 2 seats to himself.

I am sure there are many like him who try to exploit the situation.

If you can fit in an airline seat as it is, you shouldn’t have anything to worry about, as this policy isn’t for you, it’s for those considerably bigger than you.

I am overweight and can eaisly fit into an airline seat. I don't know where they will draw the line. I object to being weighed or made to sit in a test seat at check-in....

 

[11sjw]

So true...

I've been on many flights where skinny people have sat next to me but did not care about the amount of space they are taking up, and the fact they where taking up my space too, and yet the larger people tended to be accutely aware that they are taking up additional space and are careful not to encrouch on yours.

The worst flight I have been on, it was a skinny person whom managed to use half my seat as well as their own for most of the flight. I kept asking them to move over, but they didn't care...

It is difficult to tax for rudeness and an inconsiderate nature, isn't it?

Still having had to put up with people spilling onto my seat at events and on very long flights something needs to be done be it special seating at a cost or just two seats at a premium over the normal fare.

 

[pauly7]

So they will need to install test seats in the check-in areas and ask passengers to test their "frame" in the test jig as they do with carry-on bags.

Interesting idea - could work

 

[harvyk]

I am overweight and can eaisly fit into an airline seat. I don't know where they will draw the line. I object to being weighed or made to sit in a test seat at check-in....

And thus there is the problem, because of your weight you are being treated differently, and there is the grounds for complaint.

If the airlines wished to bring in such a ruling then the process for checking you would need to apply to the skinniest people as well, otherwise there would be grounds for complaint.

They would need to make anything like that either voluntary (such as the cabin baggage scales), or mandatory for everyone (such as the checked baggage scales).

Whilst writing this I was thinking of those "You must be this height to ride" signs you see at theme parks...

 

[ChrisBNE]

Currently larger pax are encourage to pay for business or PE seats. Surely they can be encouraged to pay for more space in economy by paying for the next seat. Unfortunately the only way to police such a thing will be by the cabin staff, and by then it's too late to move people around.

Ultimately it has to come down to these scenarios being a safety issue, rather than just a comfort issue. If the encroachment of one pax on another is able to be deemed unsafe, then the airline needs to devise a way to implement a safe way of dealing with such a scenario.

I am sure the legal teams are working on the best way to say, if you can't fit into this space comfortably, you're gonna need pay for more space bucko. (Yes, as mentioned skinny people also 'encroach' on others’ personal space, but this is more a reflection on their personality than general physical dynamics of this scenario).

EDIT: Should seat sizes be increased across the board so that all pax can be accomodated, since our average breadth is considered to be growing across the population, and thus fares be dearer?