CBR-SYD-ADL in J - SCs less than advertised

[Zips-Numerate-Viscosity]

I'm disappointed, but perhaps not surprised, that I contacted [email protected] 6 business days ago, and they still haven't responded. I might follow up with a phone call soon. Hopefully this gets resolved before my CBR-SYD-BNE J flight next week...

(I've checked my Velocity account and relevant booking pages, and no change.)

Corollary: how far should I push this? Am I at risk of getting my Velocity account suspended or being given anti-preferential treatment (shadow-impacted, in a sense), if I push this further, raise a complaint, etc.?

 

[Jurahn]

@AustraliaPoochie No. ADL-MEL is 55 SC and MEL-CBR (and SYD) is 55 SC in J.

View attachment 317233

Issue here is that CBR-SYD vv is sold as J with 55 SC stated in the booking but only 25 SC awarded as the route is treated as flexible, presumably due to no J seats on the aircraft type.

Bit surprised that this hasn't been discussed before, but that could be because it's a new stuff up. Be handy if someone who's flown on a J ticket on an all whY plane between CBR-SYD vv could post a screen shot of the SC earn.

It’s definitely been discussed before, as I’ve come across this issue a couple of times in the past few years and now avoid any of the Saab or similar flights like the plague if booking a J ticket due to the hassles with trying to get the correct SCs.

I had to (politely) argue my case with Velocity in 2019 when I booked a full J (sale) fare HBA.MEL-CBR return, MEL-CBR flight was on ATR72 so a notation that seating would be in economy, however e-ticket showed D fare class for ALL flights. I booked J as my status had slipped back to Silver at that time so wanted to have lounge access, additional luggage allowance, etc. I was refused lounge access in MEL as my MEL-CBR boarding pass showed Economy seating and a Y fare class. I produced the e-ticket to show I had booked a J fare all the way through, but lounge staff insisted all they could see was a Flex fare. They looked into it and eventually agreed they could see I had booked and paid for a J fare, and allowed me in but it took so long I only had about 10 minutes before I had to go to the gate anyway. Needless to say, no priority boarding for me either for that flight, and I only received Y SCs (25).

Like you, I emailed VFF - no response after nearly 2 weeks so I called them. Luckily I spoke to a sympathetic staff member, the matter was escalated to someone more senior and I received the missing 30 SCs that day. I posted a thread in AFF about the issue, and commented then that it should be made clear such flights would only earn Y SCs, not just a note that one flight will be seated in Economy but otherwise giving no indication that other Business “privileges” and SCs will not be awarded despite the entire booking being selected and paid for as a J fare.

Back then, from what I recall, the booking screen fare options did not display the SCs to be earned in the way it does now, so at least you have that screenshot as proof to back up your claim. I had the e-ticket which listed D class for all flights, so I was successful. Not so a similar situation for my other half last year - he booked and paid for J for HBA-SYD-CBR-MEL-HBA, however the SYD-CBR leg was on the Saab. When I checked his e-ticket after the trip, it showed a Y (Flex) fare class for that flight, as did his boarding pass, so no joy there in trying to claim J SCs,

Good luck! Will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

[oz_ally]

I remember @oz_ally had similar issues with ROK?

Yer IIRC that was a J flight I booked during a DSC time and nek minit the plane was changed to an Alliance with no J seats. I got no email about it - just noticed it myself in the app close to fly time?? I think I called up about it before flying to make sure I would still get the full 110SC and pretty sure I did get them. It's in a thread on here somewhere. But it took a bit of back and forth faffing. All our flights ROK-BNE & BNE-ROK are Alliance now so no more J on that route. Was nice while we had the VA planes with J cabin and $199 cheapo J fares. But they are gone for good it seems.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Lets just say that even with D class fares on the whole sector, when they charge for CBR - SYD to another city, at full discJ fares, and the fact that CBR - SYD has no J cabin, is a money gouge.
CBR - SYD with no J, should be cheaper, and the fact no J on this sector should be stated very widely in the booking process, and also the SC earn process on their website.
They probably know pretty well that they are taking money from you, ie making money for (from) a downgrade in service, not only on plane wise, but also NO lounge access at CBR as the saab has no J cabin, unless you use your 2 free VFF PS entry pass, or are a VFF SG/WP member.
Not that they would admit it.
You would have to then argue that you do have a right of lounge entry, as your linked PNR tix has a D class, which is discJ, ... but then, it would be up to the lounge staff to let you in, or not on that fact in CBR.
VFF will say its not them making the decision, VA says not them, link will also say its not them.
They will all pass the pointy finger around.
They should amend the VA website, to make it clear it as to SC earn, like I mentioned before, they won't do it.
Probably JH knows very well about this too, but not that she would get involved.
Waffly, yes, I know.

 

[Jurahn]

Brilliantly summarised @AustraliaPoochie , agree 100%. It is an absolute money gouge - just checking random dates in May and June for HBA-CBR fares, those with a Saab SYD-CBR leg are *gasp* a whole $1.36 cheaper than those MEL-CBR in the 737 with full J.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Maybe the next colleague with a D class VA tix CBR - SYD - another city should try for lounge entry at CBR, even though flying true Y from CBR.

 

[Zips-Numerate-Viscosity]

So, I'm on 843 SCs, and I'm due to fly CBR-SYD-BNE-CBR on J this coming long weekend. If VA stuff up the SCs again, that gives me 25 + 55 + 55 = 135 SCs, putting me at 978 SCs.

With 2x30 SCs not being credited, This issue is literally the difference between me getting to WP for the first time, *sigh*.

I'm tempted to call up on Monday (Membership Centre closed on weekends, open 8-8 AEDT M-F), but I'm also tempted to hold off until after my upcoming trip to BNE. I suppose I only need one lot of 30 SCs to ensure WP, so maybe I'll just suck it up and deal with VA's issues twice. (Otherwise I'll be delayed getting WP.)

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

In their (VA's) point of view, their calculation is not wrong, in their point of view, the calculation of J/discJ ie D if when onflying to another city, after SYD on link flights can be construed to be VAd 737s going via MEL, ie, CBR - MEL, still has a J service.
Nothing the rules were re written when they (VAd & link) inked their relationship, maybe VA is not going to change the wording on their website either, and just leave it as it is, ie, if a flyer chooses to fly CBR - SYD with link Airlines, so be it, with only 25 SC earn.
Even though the whole flight is in "D", probably in D class, but its still a downgrade on services via SYD.
Maybe keep the BP and do a retro claim, ...
Next time, fly CBR - MEL.
Even if wanting to fly to the US/Asia, and living in CBR, choose to fly via MEL if SC earn is important.

 

[Zips-Numerate-Viscosity]

I called the Velocity Membership line this morning, and they credited me with the extra 30 SCs! Key points:

• Virgin Australia are aware of the issue with their system: the SCs are based on the seat and plane, rather than the fare type, so a fare type of BUSINESS with an Economy seat will be given Economy SCs.
  • They're working on a fix, so that such fares will receive SCs consistent with the itinerary and booking page.
  • I didn't bother to ask how long they expect the fix will take - being in IT myself!
• If/when this happens again (e.g. my CBR-SYD-BNE J booking on Thursday):
  • Call and ask the operator to look specifically at the fare type on the itinerary.

Until this is fixed, I'm going to avoid J bookings (apart from Thursday, which is already booked) where one or more legs are in Economy-only planes.

Thanks all for your help!

 

[Jurahn]

Great to hear you got the outcome you were after, well done!

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a "fix" as VA have known about this for at least 4 years, and probably longer, and have either made no progress or haven't bothered to do anything. As I commented in my thread back in 2019, it makes you wonder how many people have missed out on SCS they were rightfully owed for these flights, and either didn't realise how to fix it or didn't push back when VFF told them they weren't entitled to those SCs.

I'm very grateful for all the advice and information I've received from AFF members over the years that has helped me to resolve situations like this. .

 

[PERLHR]

Glad virgin recognise this but if it's been going on for 4 years??!!!; Just looked at Canberra to Gold Coast and it's a Link Saab to Syd and 737 on to OOL. Web booking page still says 110 with 32kg baggage allowance showing that even if in Saab 340 seat (no business on board) everything else is business class related. VA need to get this sorted. It's amateurish.

 

[Jurahn]

Glad virgin recognise this but if it's been going on for 4 years??!!!; Just looked at Canberra to Gold Coast and it's a Link Saab to Syd and 737 on to OOL. Web booking page still says 110 with 32kg baggage allowance showing that even if in Saab 340 seat (no business on board) everything else is business class related. VA need to get this sorted. It's amateurish.

At LEAST four years - that was when I raised the issue with them, and it's likely I wasn't the first to do so - and I sure as hell wouldn't have been the first to be given the wrong SC earn in relation to such flights.

That's just total BS if they're blatantly advertising J SC earn (as the OP also showed in their screenshot), and yet only giving Y (Flex) SC earn for that segment.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

In their eyes, they are doing nothing wrong.
A flyer/flier could still go CBR - MEL - OOL.
Its just plain profiteering.
Maybe someone can take it to the Airline Customer Advocate, but they would probably say, try and settle it with the airline first, and of course, Virgin will say, its well known that there are options, ie, instead of flying CBR - SYD, the option is CBR - MEL, or even CBR - ADL (some days).

 

[PERLHR]

In their eyes, they are doing nothing wrong.
A flyer/flier could still go CBR - MEL - OOL.
Its just plain profiteering.
Maybe someone can take it to the Airline Customer Advocate, but they would probably say, try and settle it with the airline first, and of course, Virgin will say, its well known that there are options, ie, instead of flying CBR - SYD, the option is CBR - MEL, or even CBR - ADL (some days).

Not really sure what you mean in so much they are doing nothing wrong (in their eyes). The website clearly states the routing via SYD is on a business fare that attracts 110 status points. It also clearly states that the sector between CBR and SYD is in economy (obviously as it's on a Saab 340) but also has full business baggage allowance as well as the 110 points that the combined flight attracts. If they only provide 25 points for the CBR-SYD sector then that is fundamentally different to what they state. Offering any other routing is inconsequential of what that routing via SYD clearly states.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Its says so, but you can't/can you rely on that?
When a flight is done, they only give out (issue) 25 SC instead of 55 SC.
And a person has to contact them to make a fuss, and then they get 55 SC.
Not so bad if on the saab by link, the seat next to you is kept empty when you buy a link tix to another city fare from CBR on a VA J tix.
On a side note, as the tix is a J, but no J cabin starting a flight from CBR - SYD, will a flyer/flier in this case get access to the VAd lounge at CBR airport?
If no, apart from status pax, then its profiteering on their part.
If I lived in CBR, and had to do it like this, ie have to fly to SYD, I might as well book the link flight in whY on the VA website, and then J from SYD - somewhere else where I am going.
Or fly via MEL.

 

[PERLHR]

Its says so, but you can't/can you rely on that?
When a flight is done, they only give out (issue) 25 SC instead of 55 SC.
And a person has to contact them to make a fuss, and then they get 55 SC.
Not so bad if on the saab by link, the seat next to you is kept empty when you buy a link tix to another city fare from CBR on a VA J tix.
On a side note, as the tix is a J, but no J cabin starting a flight from CBR - SYD, will a flyer/flier in this case get access to the VAd lounge at CBR airport?
If no, apart from status pax, then its profiteering on their part.
If I lived in CBR, and had to do it like this, ie have to fly to SYD, I might as well book the link flight in whY on the VA website, and then J from SYD - somewhere else where I am going.
Or fly via MEL.

Interestingly, if booking independently on the route I was looking at , 189 dollars cheapest to SYD from CBR (Y class with Link) and 349 in biz to OOL from SYD...on day as my previous message Friday 14 July. So more expensive to book separately. So may as well book the connecting then tell Virgin how hopeless they are!!

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Maybe its not everyday, but it seems Sunday, probably not suitable for you, there is a direct flight CBR - OOL, I had a (*dummy*) booking for 02/04/23, there is a 737 direct from CBR - OOL, not cheap, $749.01.
Edit: mid week 30/03/23, its $549.00.
Or the 7.15am (via MEL) to get to OOL at 12.15pm, J for $619.37, your calc is $538.xx.
By the looks of it, some times of the day, there is the 737 (800) with a J cabin, so I would say, they can even say, the flyer/flier had options, but made the choice of the saab340.

 

[Jurahn]

On a side note, as the tix is a J, but no J cabin starting a flight from CBR - SYD, will a flyer/flier in this case get access to the VAd lounge at CBR airport?
If no, apart from status pax, then its profiteering on their part.

I can confirm VA can and do deny lounge access in these situations to non-status pax - as previously mentioned, I was denied lounge access in MEL, despite paying for a J ticket for all sectors and one reason for that was to have lounge access as I had slipped back to Silver at that time. Problem is the boarding pass for the Saab flights (and previously for the ATR72s) shows Y as there's no J cabin, and took 40 minutes of (politely) arguing my way into the lounge backed up by a copy of the eticket which showed D class for all fares - it was an embarrassing and frustrating situation and there were eventually three Lounge staff looking into it before i was finally granted access. By then, it was almost time to board the flight to CBR, where I was then of course denied priority boarding for the same reason (Y on boarding pass). Yet the J baggage allowance applied for all sectors - so how do they justify providing one J benefit, but not the others?

I lodged feedback with VA and VFF at the time, only to receive a response that I should make sure I book a flight with a J cabin! Er, well how about making sure your booking portal doesn't offer a J fare on that flight as that's hugely misleading, as it only notes that seating will be in Y but does NOT mention that you won't get lounge access, PB, and will only get Y SCs. This is made even worse now - as shown by the screenshots in this thread - with the website clearly stating J SC earn for this segment, when they have no intention of providing this.

 

[PERLHR]

I can confirm VA can and do deny lounge access in these situations to non-status pax - as previously mentioned, I was denied lounge access in MEL, despite paying for a J ticket for all sectors and one reason for that was to have lounge access as I had slipped back to Silver at that time. Problem is the boarding pass for the Saab flights (and previously for the ATR72s) shows Y as there's no J cabin, and took 40 minutes of (politely) arguing my way into the lounge backed up by a copy of the eticket which showed D class for all fares - it was an embarrassing and frustrating situation and there were eventually three Lounge staff looking into it before i was finally granted access. By then, it was almost time to board the flight to CBR, where I was then of course denied priority boarding for the same reason (Y on boarding pass). Yet the J baggage allowance applied for all sectors - so how do they justify providing one J benefit, but not the others?

I lodged feedback with VA and VFF at the time, only to receive a response that I should make sure I book a flight with a J cabin! Er, well how about making sure your booking portal doesn't offer a J fare on that flight as that's hugely misleading, as it only notes that seating will be in Y but does NOT mention that you won't get lounge access, PB, and will only get Y SCs. This is made even worse now - as shown by the screenshots in this thread - with the website clearly stating J SC earn for this segment, when they have no intention of providing this.

Says it all really. Sounds like total mis-selling a product service and I am surprised they have been able to get away with this.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

But even VFF PS do still get (free) 2 entries into the any VAd lounges, tho.
Sounds like "nit" picking, in your case Jurah.
Its something called the "deter" principle, (edit: "compete, deter and win", as in the West Point mil thingo.
When they did let you in, its most likely under the usage of one of your entries under your VFF PS free entry.