CGK IRROPS (QF42 24hr delay)

[pythonisman]

Yesterday during a layover in CGK, noticed that the inbound QF41 was a couple of hours late taking off. I figured there was a chance of a decent delay, but everything was showing as on time so thought we’d wait and see.

While we were about to check out from our hotel, got the dreaded text that QF42 for 16/12 has been delayed by 24hrs…

The only alternate OW option for sale was an 0425hrs flight to KUL and then the daytime MH flight that would get us in 12hrs later rather than 24- or potentially that nights direct service with GA, but I booked this trip during double SCs promo and really didn’t fancy my chances with an ORC. Qantas had only offered a refund in their message and given no proactive advice about what to do.

Anyway, after establishing that we didn’t want to try for another routing to get to SYD sooner, spoke to the hotel and they said we were ok to stay another night here so we opted to do that.

After paying for the extra night (not the cheapest given it was last minute I guess, and also didn’t want to check out and have to move/find another hotel with a grumpy husband in tow), I found QFs policy regarding compensation stating a limit of AU$200 for accommodation claims - with higher value being taken on a case by case basis.

My question is what experience folks have if any with this process? Our room was about triple that, the first night was booked through QF Hotels so I can prove easily to them what we’d originally booked at, and give a decent argument as to why we didn’t look for something cheaper.

I can look down the travel insurance route, though my thinking was if this is directly Qantas’ fault that they should foot the bill if possible…

Luckily we hadn’t made plans in Sydney today, annoyingly though our tomorrow now will be very busy, and we’ll be tired, even if we manage to sleep the whole flight tonight…

Also is a text message and email 8hrs before you’re due to fly all that QF normally do for WPs in IRROPS situations? We are flying in J, if that matters…

 

[Captain Halliday]

I’ve had similar with a delay ex. DPS. There’s a thread somewhere with full details, but in short:

Aircraft went tech at the gate and QF ground staff told Y pax to make their own hotel booking with a refund up to AUD200. J pax (inc. us) were told rooms had been booked.

We were sent by taxi to the QF chosen hotel where we were denied checkin because QF hadn’t paid for the rooms.

Approaching 3am I just paid for the room so we could get some sleep. It was >AUD300.

Once home I claimed reimbursement citing the part in the QF policy about considering reasonable claims higher than AUD200.

It was a 100+ day battle involving 13 emails, 12 calls. But they paid… eventually.

It’s an endurance test and I wish you good luck.

 

[pythonisman]

I’ve had similar with a delay ex. DPS. There’s a thread someone with full details, but in short:

Aircraft went tech at the gate and QF ground staff told Y pax to make their own hotel booking with a refund up to AUD200.

J pax were told room had been booked. We were sent by cab to the QF chosen hotel.

At the hotel we were denied checkin because QF hadn’t paid for the rooms.

Approaching 3am I just paid of the room so we could get some sleep. It was >$300.

I then claimed reimbursement for the room citing the part in the QF policy about considering reasonable claims higher than AUD200.

It was a 100+ day battle involving 13 emails, 12 calls.

It’s an endurance test and I wish you good luck.

Thanks for the response. Sounds like a nightmare and sorry to hear that. Seems insane they were denying you in particular if it was where they sent you!

No offer of alternate accommodation was offered for us so I’ll see what I can do, but will warm up the travel insurance claim process as well as I’m not expecting them to be very receptive to anything.

 

[elanshin]

My question is what experience folks have if any with this process? Our room was about triple that, the first night was booked through QF Hotels so I can prove easily to them what we’d originally booked at, and give a decent argument as to why we didn’t look for something cheaper.

I can look down the travel insurance route, though my thinking was if this is directly Qantas’ fault that they should foot the bill if possible…

Luckily we hadn’t made plans in Sydney today, annoyingly though our tomorrow now will be very busy, and we’ll be tired, even if we manage to sleep the whole flight tonight…

Typically the first question which you identified is how urgent do I want to get back and/or do I want to stay where I'm at. If you needed to get back, you can push QF to rebook you on ANY alternate airlines assuming seats are available. It does a take a bit of pushing sometimes though, but they can book you onto other airlines. As for your DSC, as long as it was a regularly booked flight, you can always claim ORC with DSC (and get the second airline as long as it's not OW).

Also is a text message and email 8hrs before you’re due to fly all that QF normally do for WPs in IRROPS situations? We are flying in J, if that matters…

They'll message you as soon as they realise their plane isn't going to be carrying you. I've had a LAX - SYD flight cancelled 18h in advance when I watched the corresponding QF2 from LHR get progressively delayed (same physical a380 that would do our service) and sure enough we got a message about cancellation. I'd say it's better than sitting at the airport watching your plane get progressively delayed.

 

[pythonisman]

Typically the first question which you identified is how urgent do I want to get back and/or do I want to stay where I'm at. If you needed to get back, you can push QF to rebook you on ANY alternate airlines assuming seats are available. It does a take a bit of pushing sometimes though, but they can book you onto other airlines. As for your DSC, as long as it was a regularly booked flight, you can always claim ORC with DSC (and get the second airline as long as it's not OW).


They'll message you as soon as they realise their plane isn't going to be carrying you. I've had a LAX - SYD flight cancelled 18h in advance when I watched the corresponding QF2 from LHR get progressively delayed (same physical a380 that would do our service) and sure enough we got a message about cancellation. I'd say it's better than sitting at the airport watching your plane get progressively delayed.

Yeah I figured an ORC would be possible but equally not without a fair investment of time/effort while they gradually wear me down. I gave up years ago trying to get ORC for a flight from FCO-LHR as part of a trip to Aus, where due to a certain storm Eunice BA wiped their schedule but AZ was still running

My point about the delay notification wasn’t the time they messaged, it was more the lack of any information on what to do, service recovery, compensation etc. even easyJet did a better job giving you all options upfront, allowing you to pick a hotel etc etc, but I know EU261 is forcing their hand to an extent there.

Anyway. Fingers crossed we fly tonight cause I do really need to get to Aus for tomorrow!

 

[pythonisman]

QFA041D is finally on the way, looking like it’ll get in about an extra hour later than planned. Given everything I’m guessing there’ll be some delays going back tonight (plus with handlers dealing with two 42’s going back to SYD)… any suggestions as to what time to get to check in/what time it’s likely to open at CGK?

 

[SYD]

QFA041D is finally on the way, looking like it’ll get in about an extra hour later than planned. Given everything I’m guessing there’ll be some delays going back tonight (plus with handlers dealing with two 42’s going back to SYD)… any suggestions as to what time to get to check in/what time it’s likely to open at CGK?

QF has “early checkin” at CGK. Sorry, I don’t recall exactly how early but could 4 hrs prior (possibly more).

Virtually every other airline has a strict 3 hrs prior to departure (which is frustrating for evening flights) but I was surprised a few months ago to see QF pre checkin already operating more than 3 hrs (but not signposted ie above the desks was blank but the J checkin was open).

 

[pythonisman]

QF has “early checkin” at CGK. Sorry, I don’t recall exactly how early but could 4 hrs prior (possibly more).

Virtually every other airline has a strict 3 hrs prior to departure (which is frustrating for evening flights) but I was surprised a few months ago to see QF pre checkin already operating more than 3 hrs (but not signposted ie above the desks was blank but the J checkin was open).

Ah brilliant. Thanks for this!
Looks like the inbound is running a little earlier than originally expected so we’re aiming for about 3hrs before that. In either case shouldn’t be too bad.

Flying QR back out in a couple of weeks and helpful to know about the limit. We’ll try not to arrive too early for that (1am flight so have a hotel booked and will use it as a day room)

 

[clifford]

QF has “early checkin” at CGK. Sorry, I don’t recall exactly how early but could 4 hrs prior (possibly more).

Virtually every other airline has a strict 3 hrs prior to departure (which is frustrating for evening flights) but I was surprised a few months ago to see QF pre checkin already operating more than 3 hrs (but not signposted ie above the desks was blank but the J checkin was open).

Yes, I was there a month ago and the check in desks opened around 4 hours before departure (QF42).

 

[SYD]

Ah brilliant. Thanks for this!
Looks like the inbound is running a little earlier than originally expected so we’re aiming for about 3hrs before that. In either case shouldn’t be too bad.

If you have access to it the lounge is ok.

Flying QR back out in a couple of weeks and helpful to know about the limit. We’ll try not to arrive too early for that (1am flight so have a hotel booked and will use it as a day room)

Wise move. QR is 3 hrs. The other day flying to DOH we arrived just a bit more than 3 hrs and it was conga lines everywhere and checkin opened less than 3 hrs…and very slow.

Last year caught CX around midnight and arrived more than 4 hrs early - checkin opened on the dot of 3 hrs…

 

[pythonisman]

Yep we’re sat in the lounge now. Other half has chronic “don’t be late” anxiety so we always have time to kill. Checkin was indeed open at about 1600 (for both tonight’s and last nights flights).

I saw a huge queue for QR and given we’re in J and will be able to do fast track (and hopefully e-gates) will aim to leave less time for the flight home, 2hrs before will be absolute maximum for that one I think!

Thanks all for the help on this one. I’ll be relieved when we’re wheels up and actually on the way, and praying for as solid a sleep as possible given the short flight and a big day tomorrow…

If you have access to it the lounge is ok.

Wise move. QR is 3 hrs. The other day flying to DOH we arrived just a bit more than 3 hrs and it was conga lines everywhere and checkin opened less than 3 hrs…and very slow.

Last year caught CX around midnight and arrived more than 4 hrs early - checkin opened on the dot of 3 hrs…

 

[ANstar]

$600 for a hotel in Jakarta - geessh where were you staying?

 

[SYD]

I saw a huge queue for QR and given we’re in J and will be able to do fast track (and hopefully e-gates) will aim to leave less time for the flight home, 2hrs before will be absolute maximum for that one I think!

Yeah, we were in J and the line moved slowly. Getting there about 2 hrs prior you’d probably get straight thru.

No “Fastrack” but yes eGates in/out!

 

[flydoc]

Typically the first question which you identified is how urgent do I want to get back and/or do I want to stay where I'm at. If you needed to get back, you can push QF to rebook you on ANY alternate airlines assuming seats are available. It does a take a bit of pushing sometimes though, but they can book you onto other airlines. As for your DSC, as long as it was a regularly booked flight, you can always claim ORC with DSC (and get the second airline as long as it's not OW).


They'll message you as soon as they realise their plane isn't going to be carrying you. I've had a LAX - SYD flight cancelled 18h in advance when I watched the corresponding QF2 from LHR get progressively delayed (same physical a380 that would do our service) and sure enough we got a message about cancellation. I'd say it's better than sitting at the airport watching your plane get progressively delayed.

As another data point, agree with both the above.
I was booked in J on QF1958 13/12; the early morning flight was cancelled 6 hrs prior to departure and I was auto-rebooked onto the evening QF1960. I wanted to get to ASP ASAP, so called and requested to be rebooked onto TL250 instead (all Y aircraft), which was readily done.
Will be claiming both fare difference (FWIW) and ORC (DSC).

 

[kangarooflyer88]

You mentioned that your flight with QF out of CGK was a layover, may I ask, where was your trip starting from? If it was Europe then EU261/UK261 applies and they’ll be on the hook for €600 in compensation. Indeed this happened to me last year flying Frankfurt to Sydney (via Helsinki and Singapore). I got all the way to Singapore only to find out my connecting fly on to Sydney was delayed by 14 hours. Once I landed in Sydney I filed an EU261 claim with Qantas and about a day later they approved the €600 claim.

To your second point, on hotels and meals, for international travel any guidelines they provide can be ignored since they are a violation of Qantas’ contract of carriage and this unenforceable in any way. Generally, book whatever hotel you find and send Qantas the bill and they’ll reimburse the whole bit. If the hotel cost a ton well that’s on Qantas for disrupting your flight. Since we all know hotels can be very expensive when you have to book at the last second. The relevant aspect of Qantas’s contract of carriage come from article 19 of the Montreal Convention which applies to almost all international travel. Specifically during disruptions airlines are liable for up to $7,000 USD in damages they cause which would include things like meals, hotels and lost wages to name but a few examples.

-RooFlyer88

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You mentioned that your flight with QF out of CGK was a layover, may I ask, where was your trip starting from? If it was Europe then EU261/UK261 applies and they’ll be on the hook for €600 in compensation. Indeed this happened to me last year flying Frankfurt to Sydney (via Helsinki and Singapore). I got all the way to Singapore only to find out my connecting fly on to Sydney was delayed by 14 hours. Once I landed in Sydney I filed an EU261 claim with Qantas and about a day later they approved the €600 claim.

To your second point, on hotels and meals, for international travel any guidelines they provide can be ignored since they are a violation of Qantas’ contract of carriage and this unenforceable in any way. Generally, book whatever hotel you find and send Qantas the bill and they’ll reimburse the whole bit. If the hotel cost a ton well that’s on Qantas for disrupting your flight. Since we all know hotels can be very expensive when you have to book at the last second. The relevant aspect of Qantas’s contract of carriage come from article 19 of the Montreal Convention which applies to almost all international travel. Specifically during disruptions airlines are liable for up to $7,000 USD in damages they cause which would include things like meals, hotels and lost wages to name but a few examples.

-RooFlyer88

As the OP already had a hotel, it might have been a stopover or a separate ticket.Potentially a separate ticket is they were after DSCs. In that case EU/UK261 won’t apply.

MC99 is not a ‘given’. Do you have access to QF’s technical and commercial logs to confirm they didn’t take reasonable measures to avoid the delay? (That is a completely separate test to that applied by EU/UK261, and is far more lenient on the airlines as a get out clause.)

As the OP wanted their DSCs, they didn’t pursue other potential options to minimise their delay. Not sure the extent you can claim lost wages if you decide you want DSCs rather than getting home on time.

Not skirting around the inconvenience of the delay in any way, or the [lack of?] communication. But to advise people that they can spend at will and claim against MC99 is problematic.

Have you actually pursed action under MC99?

 

[jrfsp]

Hopefully you get back without more delay - the A330 schedules are a complete mess at the moment - huge delays on so many intl flights.