Change in Platinum Card Travel Insurance?

[greenfrog86]

Really, Really, Really disappointed by this...

I'm not so concerned about the points thing because I don't do that often, however it was great knowing that when I have done so I was covered.

Also not impressed that there is now a deductable - makes any small claims pointless. I got sick in America before I had this card and my ~$100 of medical expenses were too little to claim. Lost your camera? Too bad if its less than the deductable. Change of plans that incur a fee up to a few hundred dollars? Too bad...

One of the best features of this card is that I have my mother, my father and a best friend as supplementaries so they are also covered by insurance - particularly my parents who don't travel often enough or earn enough to justify having their own credit cards with travel insurance included.

A key justification of the $900 being 'value' was the comprehensive and market-leading travel insurance.... So now I'm not convinced.

I agree with an earlier poster who suggested that we all express our concerns directly to Amex through their formal complaint mechanism as this will all be captured and reported. Even if it doesn't result in a change at least it will make some people uncomfortable and who ever negotiated this change should be denied a bonus for reducing their costs at the expense of significant customer satisfaction.

NOT HAPPY JAN!

 

[tinkybelle]

Just got off the phone with Ace Insurance and was told this will come into effect 15th June 2012. He mentioned airfares needed to be purchased to activate the insurance and card members will be receiving confirmation of this and other changes in the next 2-3 weeks from Amex.

the document I am now reading from this thread is stating the changes were done on 31 december 2011 for travel after 31 jan 2012
how come we have not seen this and how do we know we are covered for any travel booked before this 15 june 2012?

 

[serfty]

I am travelling to the USA this weekend and could get TID cover for a week for $65 - it does cover general treated cholesterol and hypertension issues automatically.

 

[wandersen]

I agree this is a terrible change. Not sure I can see the value in the card now. It's not just the "must put the trip on the card" issue for me.

I have given my father a card for the travel insurance - he could put his trips on the card, but the change to the pre-existing medical conditions clause would make it useless.

I've made a few claims over the years, but never for more than $250 - the new deductible makes this useless. I think I'd be better off with an annual travel insurance policy.

 

[Stephen65]

the document I am now reading from this thread is stating the changes were done on 31 december 2011 for travel after 31 jan 2012
how come we have not seen this and how do we know we are covered for any travel booked before this 15 june 2012?

True, the policy does say:

Policy Number: 09NACPLT06. Cover is effective from 30 January 2012.
These Terms and Conditions were prepared on 30 December 2011.

I haven't seen the letter yet, does it say that notwithstanding this the downgraded cover under this policy only applies to travel booked after 15 June?

 

[Browny23]

Has anyone noticed the following:


Basically a spouse is both a supplementary and primary card holder - which one takes precedence?

Primary Card member​

​

​

​

​

means:1. the person who applied for the American Express Platinum Card Account andwho is issued an American Express Platinum Card Account as the primary accountholder; and2. their husband, wife, fiance(e), de facto or life partner with whom they havecontinuously cohabited for a period of six (6) months or more; and3. their legally dependent children (including stepchildren or legally adoptedchildren) who are twenty-four (24) years of age or less and wholly dependenton them for financial support.​

Primary Card member does not include a Supplementary Card member

Supplementary Card member​

​

​

​

​

means:1. a person who has been issued a supplementary card on an American ExpressPlatinum Card Account; and2. their husband, wife, fiance(e), de facto or life partner with whom they havecontinuously cohabited for a period of six (6) months or more; and3. their legally dependent children (including stepchildren or legally adoptedchildren) who are twenty-four (24) years of age or less and wholly dependent​

on them for financial support.


Also the list of activities considered special sports is now soo exhaustive, i dont even think i am allowed to walk around NYC as it may be considered as enduarnce.

on horseback; professional sports; solo canyoning; solo caving; solo diving; solomountain-climbing; steeplechasing; any form of motor racing, speed, performance orendurance tests, abseiling; American football; baseball; bobsleigh; bungee jumping;canoeing; clay pigeon shooting; deep-sea fishing; fell running; go-karting; hang-gliding;heli-skiing; hockey; horseriding; hot-air ballooning; ice hockey; jet biking and jetskiing; luge; martial arts; microlighting; mountain biking off-tarmac; mountaineering;parachuting; paragliding; parascending; paraskiing; polo; potholing; quad biking; rockclimbing; rugby; scuba diving deeper than thirty (30) metres; skeleton; skidoo; skijumping;ski-racing; ski-stunting; tour operator safari (where You or any tourist willbe carrying guns); trekking; war games/paintball; white-water canoeing and rafting;​

yachting more than twenty (20) nautical miles from the nearest coastline.

 

[aplmac]

"The changes apply to any trips that you book after 15 June 2012; or trips booked prior, but for which you still need to pay a deposit."

It's not exactly clear as to the cutoff date for the 'trips booked prior' bit, but I would assume this is 30th January 2012 when this Master Policy came in to effect. So my reading of this is that if you've booked a trip since the end of January, but not paid for it as yet, then you're screwed under the new policy.

This is what makes it totally confusing, given that we've only just been notified of the changes to the insurance T&C in a letter dated March for a policy that came into effect from the end of January, without prior warning, where the implementation of the new policy is retrospective. Can they do that, legally?

 

[tinkybelle]

what about people who booked the trip(award seat given to them on 31 jan) prior to getting the plat card ( 2 march)and have not been told on application of the new conditions

when were they actually given to or produced on the net

before or after 1 march.

i spoke to my rep 2 weeks ago and he told me the changes were coming but not active yet

 

[LuisT]

Anyone know if the change affects the business card as well (not that I have one, but might be an option)?

I looked up the T&Cs and they're still the old ones:

https://secure.cmax.americanexpress...sandconditions/SBSPlatinum/THEPLATINUM_v1.pdf

 

[awilcockson]

canoeing; go-karting; paintball;

Seriously?

Why not just remove the insurance all-together?

I get the feeling that it is going to be virtually impossible to make a claim now anyway ...

 

[greenfrog86]

the document I am now reading from this thread is stating the changes were done on 31 december 2011 for travel after 31 jan 2012
how come we have not seen this and how do we know we are covered for any travel booked before this 15 june 2012?

I spoke to both ACE Insurance and Amex this morning with a few points from the conversation below...

• They confirmed the introduction date of 15 June, with any trips booked before then covered under the old T&Cs
• ACE were aware that many people are disappointed and have been asking lots of questions
• ACE indicated to me that the 'cost of the trip' means the flight out of and back into Australia to activate the cover
• If you want to be covered for Transport Accident Cover then you must have paid for that part of the trip on the card also - eg if you travel on a plane between London and Berlin and it crashes you will only be covered if you have paid for that flight on your Amex Card (regardless of whether you 'activated' the travel insurance by paying for your MEL-LHR-MEL flight on your Amex). This same scenario applies to any train, bus or taxi that you might take as part of your trip also.
• So an example sounds like if you lose your passport getting off the Heathrow Express you will be covered for the lost passport if you paid for your flight to London on your Amex, however if you DO NOT PAY for the Heathrow Express ticket on your Amex and it derails and catches on fire, you will not be covered by the Transport Accident Insurance...

I then called Amex and passed on my feedback which the operator dutifully recorded and said she would forward on... along with all of the other feedback she has been receiving!! She acknowledged that these are significant changes and also that they were driven by rising costs of claims, particularly around medical expenses.

Changes to require some element of purchase to be made on the card I can understand as this is a commercial decision after all, and I explained this to her - I would be happy to pay for my MEL-LHR return flight on my card in order to activate the insurance (obviously not as good as we have it now but I can understand such a change) however I DO NOT want to be constantly worrying about paying for EVERYTHING on my trip with my Amex 'just in case' something happens and I'm not covered by my insurance (ie I NEVER EVER pay for taxis etc with a credit card, particularly overseas).

This is a really really disappointing change and I'll now be exploring all my other possible insurance policies because this simply goes too far and I refuse to be worrying about purchases etc while I'm on holiday. I'm also very disappointed that I can no longer assist my parents by offering them insurance through my card - they are simply not in a position to pay for a card that includes insurance because of their income, age and level of travel. Its simply not economical.

Rant over from me, however I encourage everyone else to express their dissatisfaction directly to Amex so that they get flooded with all of the customer considerations of what seems to be a very poorly thought through and even more badly implemented cost-reduction change.

 

[equus]

"This is what makes it totally confusing, given that we've only just been notified of the changes to the insurance T&C in a letter dated March for a policy that came into effect from the end of January, without prior warning, where the implementation of the new policy is retrospective. Can they do that, legally?

I think they would be in trouble with respect to the requirements of "utmost good faith" in insurance contracts. The tricky bit would be the relationships - where the insurer has a relationship with AMEX, but the cardholders have a contractual relationship not with the insurer, but with AMEX. So the insurer has no direct duty to the cardholder.

It may well be that AMEX has really shot themselves in the foot here (for a period), as they may well be liable for the benefits under the terms of the "old" policy, but not covered by the underwriter. Would be interesting to see it tested (but not to be the bunny do the testing).

 

[aplmac]

The T&C book refers to 'an American Express Platinum Card account' - so the 'an' would suggest all and any Platinum cards.

 

[Stephen65]

I suspect that is the intention - to discourage any claims at all by making the extent of cover so uncertain, the deductible so high and the exclusions so wide.

Looking at the list of so-called "special sports" - and this is by far the widest list I have ever seen I can see several that are going to cause me problems, for example, what is the definition of "trekking"?

I've never seen a policy with such a wide range of sport exclusions - the comparable CBA CC policy lists about one quarter as many items.

PS: this was the list under the old policy for comparison:

Special Sports means boxing; cave diving; horse jumping; hunting and
hunting on horseback; professional sports; solo canyoning; solo caving;
solo diving; solo mountain-climbing; steeplechasing; any form of motor
racing, speed, performance or endurance tests.

so all of the following are now new exclusions:

abseiling; American football; baseball; bobsleigh; bungee jumping;
canoeing; clay pigeon shooting; deep-sea fishing; fell running; go-karting; hang-gliding;
heli-skiing; hockey; horseriding; hot-air ballooning; ice hockey; jet biking and jet
skiing; luge; martial arts; microlighting; mountain biking off-tarmac; mountaineering;
parachuting; paragliding; parascending; paraskiing; polo; potholing; quad biking; rock
climbing; rugby; scuba diving deeper than thirty (30) metres; skeleton; skidoo; skijumping; ski-racing; ski-stunting; tour operator safari (where You or any tourist will
be carrying guns); trekking; war games/paintball; white-water canoeing and rafting;
yachting more than twenty (20) nautical miles from the nearest coastline.

I guess we should be glad that we are still allowed to play social games of Australian football, cricket, rounders, netball, lacrosse and basketball! (though I note that rugby and both field and ice hockey are now banned).

Whoever put the list together didn't put much thought into it e.g. it starts off with certain types of horseriding activity that are banned but then slips "horseriding" is as a generic term as well later.

 

[tinkybelle]

tour operator safari (where You or any tourist will
be carrying guns);

does this mean the operator can carry the gun in the jeep when on a 2 hr safari in the game parks?

 

[Stephen65]

I tried again with Amex and ACE to get clarification. The ACE agent I got this time was more helpful. According to him:

- the cover applies to travel booked after 15 June, he couldn't explain why the policy refers to 31 January

- to activate the overall cover (including medical for the entire trip) you have to pay for your international travel to and from Australia and any international travel whilst on your trip on your card or using MR points. You do not have to pay for any travel within a country on your card or using points. I did note that none of this is in the definition of "full fare"

- you also satisfy this obligation if you pay using FF points that you can demonstrate are sourced from MR points. I asked how one would do this overseas and was told that ACE would liaise with Amex to track your history of conversions to see if you had enough MR points converted to pay for the trip. Again I pointed out that none of this is in the policy

- the Transport Accident Cover does switch on and off depending on whether or not the fare for the individual vehicle you are in was paid for using the Amex card and if you are in a vehicle that does not accept Amex cards you are not covered. This is different to the advice that UK holders have been given that they are covered if in a vehicle where you cannot pay by Amex

- re the list of exclusions, two that particularly concerned me were horseriding and trekking. He couldn't explain why it starts off restricting only certain sorts of more dangerous horseriding but then goes on to exclude horseriding entirely but he said all forms of horseriding are now excluded

- he could not explain what the scope of the exclusion for "trekking" was other than to say its "trekking" and in the event of a claim they will consider the individual activity you were engaged in. I pointed out that the dictionary definition of trekking includes everything from a long afternoon walk to a month long trips through the Himalayas and I was not comforted by the idea that my coverage would depend on their view of what I was doing after I lodged a claim

I relayed my concerns regarding the dates, uncertainty of coverage, deficiencies in the policy and wide exclusions to Amex.

I suggest every other disgruntled cardholder does the same.

 

[aplmac]

I tried again with Amex and ACE to get clarification. The ACE agent I got this time was more helpful. According to him:

- the cover applies to travel booked after 15 June, he couldn't explain why the policy refers to 31 January

- to activate the overall cover (including medical for the entire trip) you have to pay for your international travel to and from Australia and any international travel whilst on your trip on your card or using MR points. You do not have to pay for any travel within a country on your card or using points. I did note that none of this is in the definition of "full fare"

- you also satisfy this obligation if you pay using FF points that you can demonstrate are sourced from MR points. I asked how one would do this overseas and was told that ACE would liaise with Amex to track your history of conversions to see if you had enough MR points converted to pay for the trip. Again I pointed out that none of this is in the policy

- the Transport Accident Cover does switch on and off depending on whether or not the fare for the individual vehicle you are in was paid for using the Amex card and if you are in a vehicle that does not accept Amex cards you are not covered. This is different to the advice that UK holders have been given that they are covered if in a vehicle where you cannot pay by Amex

- re the list of exclusions, two that particularly concerned me were horseriding and trekking. He couldn't explain why it starts off restricting only certain sorts of more dangerous horseriding but then goes on to exclude horseriding entirely but he said all forms of horseriding are now excluded

- he could not explain what the scope of the exclusion for "trekking" was other than to say its "trekking" and in the event of a claim they will consider the individual activity you were engaged in. I pointed out that the dictionary definition of trekking includes everything from a long afternoon walk to a month long trips through the Himalayas and I was not comforted by the idea that my coverage would depend on their view of what I was doing after I lodged a claim

I relayed my concerns regarding the dates, uncertainty of coverage, deficiencies in the policy and wide exclusions to Amex.

I suggest every other disgruntled cardholder does the same.

So I did just that - told them it was totally unworkable and that they'd really dropped the ball with this new policy, and it's a further devaluing of the Platinum brand. I also canned my Platinum charge card, seeing as for me, the only thing separating the benefits of the credit card over the charge card is $500 premium a year. They were happy to help me cancel it, too. They've apparently been copping a fair bit of flack over the insurance issue, and I mentioned it was the motivator to kill the charge card. So the message is going up the AMEX food chain.

 

[kamchatsky]

So I did just that - told them it was totally unworkable and that they'd really dropped the ball with this new policy, and it's a further devaluing of the Platinum brand. I also canned my Platinum charge card, seeing as for me, the only thing separating the benefits of the credit card over the charge card is $500 premium a year. They were happy to help me cancel it, too. They've apparently been copping a fair bit of flack over the insurance issue, and I mentioned it was the motivator to kill the charge card. So the message is going up the AMEX food chain.

Did you get your annual fee back? if so is it full $900 or pro-rata?

 

[gibspmuh]

Has anyone else noticed an increased promotion by AMEX of their paid Travel Insurance? I've seen it on the website and now I've received an email in relation to it as well. Certainly not a good look given the current changes anyway.

 

[wandersen]

The Qantas Amex Premium card and the Platinum Reserve Cerdit card now both have better policies:
- they are both clear that it is only the flight leaving australia that needs to be put onto the card in order to be covered;
- they both used Amex's previous wording for "Pre-exisiting Medical Conditions";
- they both have the much shorter list of special sports.

Trekking? You must be kidding me. It's more dangerous to cross a road.