Changi SIN rating Best Airport is Poppycock

[Forg]

A mate who used to fly a lot used to say he disliked SIN ‘cos whichever airport he was at, he liked to get through all “the hassle” up-front, and then once you’re at the lounge there’s no more “hassle” … but at SIN you’ve got gate security to get through after the lounge.

People like me who don’t go to lounges it doesn’t necessarily affect, but I’d be sorta surprised if a chunk of AFF people who’re using those lounges don’t have the same problem with SIN.

 

[AIRwin]

I think SIN is a great airport

It's Wonderful!

 

[SYD]

People like me who don’t go to lounges it doesn’t necessarily affect, but I’d be sorta surprised if a chunk of AFF people who’re using those lounges don’t have the same problem with SIN.

It really isn’t a problem.

Did your mate ever fly to the US from Oz? Secondary screening at the gate and the possibility of “SSSS“ on your BP (‘snap‘ goes the rubber gloves)….

 

[Quickstatus]

It also has advantages if running late during connections

I've some excellent experiences at SIN

1) QF to MH
Met by a ground agent at door. Obviously they knew I had a tight connection as they had my name displayed. They escorted my to the MH flight which I didn't really need as I knew the direction to take. WP might have helped as well.

2)MH to EK
They had a golf cart waiting. Otherwise I would not have made it. Also got upgrade J to F

3)SQ to SQ overbooked.
Had an inkling that something was up when we were told that we had to get boarding passes in SIN for the onward SQ flight. Turned out that it was overbooked and we were the lucky ones to get bumped. There were 5 of us. As compensation, the agent pulled out $2500 SGD in cold hard cash plus vouchers to use in the terminal @$500 per pax. It didn't matter that 3 of the pax were under 6. None of this dodgy "flight credits". I shut up once I saw the agent count the cash. To top it off the next flight was only 4 hrs away. I did have to let work know though which was the leverage that I think helped open the cash drawer...

 

[dajop]

It really isn’t a problem.

Did your mate ever fly to the US from Oz? Secondary screening at the gate and the possibility of “SSSS“ on your BP (‘snap‘ goes the rubber gloves)….

The problem is that people think because there is security they have to leave the lounge early to allow for that. What they don’t know or don’t think about is that security (in most instances) is dedicated to their flight, not a general point for all flights and most people don’t have lounge access so do reach the gate early. If they would just wait in the lounge until about T-30 (or later depending on the airline and gate location) then the security is no wait and minimum of fuss.

When TG used to have a lounge they’d call the flight when ready for boarding (and being TG was often late). I used to hang around until they called - and usually the only person remaining in the lounge. The timing of their calls was so good that I’d head to the gate, waltz through security whilst they were still boarding star golds and J pax but not general boarding … perfect. But I also used to see pax leaving the lounge as I was arriving and these would have had a queue for security and further wait in the holding pen.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I love SIN!

Straight from check in to the main terminal or lounge. No waiting in huge lines like the USA, or just last week, Bali! 30+ minutes just to get though to passport control.

As other have said, arrive at SIN 5 mins before gate closing and you’ll have private security and be straight on board!

 

[oz_mark]

From an airport design points of view (especially one that is largely transit passengers), you don't have to separate incoming and outgoing passengers. And you then don't need that mysterious 'transit' screening that some airports have to get between arrivals and departures.

While it seems less efficient, and can be, at a busy aiport like Singapore, having security done at each gate provides more capacity to do checks. A centralised security check would be a choke point. I've never seen a 500 metre long line at security in Singapore like I have in other airports at peak times.

You also don't need to do a full security check on all the shop staff, cleaners, etc in the terminals.

 

[JohnK]

People like me who don’t go to lounges it doesn’t necessarily affect, but I’d be sorta surprised if a chunk of AFF people who’re using those lounges don’t have the same problem with SIN.

I don't quite understand the point about losing lounge time

- Flight departs 9:00pm
- gate closes 8:40pm
- let's say 10 minute walk from lounge to gate
- leave lounge 8:25pm as in theory it will only take 5 minute to get through at that point

In all seriousness gate security may cost you 5-10 minutes lounge time. There have been many times where we've turned up to the gate and boarding hasn't started. Once boarding starts it's very efficient as almost everyone is in holding pen.

 

[justinbrett]

While it seems less efficient, and can be, at a busy aiport like Singapore, having security done at each gate provides more capacity to do checks. A centralised security check would be a choke point. I've never seen a 500 metre long line at security in Singapore like I have in other airports at peak times.

It is less efficient (overall), even if the pax are screened faster at the gate (debatable - everybody is comparing with USA TSA, well let's see what happens if TSA are running the SIN gate screening).

The physical footprint of the screening areas, the equipment, the staff - replicated at all the gates. If a similar sized airport had the same amount of equipment and same number of staff operating from a small number of central locations, you'd never wait in line at all. Is it better to have 10 individual queues at a supermarket or one queue that leads to ten operators? It's the latter, because it smooths out the waiting time and processes everybody quicker. Or you could do it with 5 operators and make a saving on staff - which is what most airports do.

It's not the fact that security is at each gate that raises the capacity - it's the higher number of staff and equipment.

SIN is also exclusively an I-I port, this would be a terrible model for D-I where the secondary screen isn't required (but is for I-D), and it also wouldn't accommodate a country who required transit pax to go through passport control. It's also less effective for flights originating in SIN.

For me, I'm not a fan, going through any screening is a hassle even if there's no wait - having to remove electronics etc - discard liquids (that's a deal breaker in itself) - it's so much nicer walking straight from the lounge to the gate and walking straight on board. I see why SIN does it this way as it suits their market, but I would hate to see this extended elsewhere (and I doubt it would).

 

[dajop]

On the efficiency piece I am not sure if it takes a whole lot more staff. You need a lot more equipment, yes. But on the flipside you are not operating and maintaining separate arrivals and departures corridors (usually arrivals beneath departures). . You don’t have infrastructure such as escalators/steps that move people off the plane down to arrivals corridor or get people down from departures to the boarding area (such as BKK). You also prioritise screening those people whose departure is imminent rather than those whose departure could be 3-4 hrs away.

As I mentioned have departed SIN almost twice a month for 15 years, mostly originating in SIN. As an originating in SIN passenger the gate based security allows the airport experience to be extraordinarily predictable (even with outbound passport control). I can and have reached the airport 35 mins before departure and don’t have to worry whether the security queue at a central screening point will take 5 mins or 45 mins. As long as I’m at the gate 5 mins before it closes (so 15 mins before a SQ flight), I know I will make the flight.

I haven’t done T4 yet, which has the more traditional screening, so will have to allow more time when I depart from there though.

I will admit the liquid restrictions are a pain - can’t pilfer drinks from the lounge for the flight when flying a LCC However flying Scoot and Jetstar I always carry an empty drink bottle that I fill with water at the gate after security.

 

[Lynda2475]

Certainly much longer than I would find at many major US airports like LAX or SFO.

All SIN transfer are I-I; in the USA you cannot do a proper I-I transfer, you have to actually queue to enter the USA (clear immigration even though you are immediately leaving), collect bags drop again and find yourself land-side where you then have to queue yet again to clear security and re-enter the same terminal to make your international connection.

LAX is far from a great arrivals experience or great connection experience. DFW is better in terms of the times I've had to connect to international flights to SJO, MEX, CUN etc. But not a s simple as LHR where you stay airside and dont need to enter the UK.

I find SIN efficient, but the need to clear security again at the gate means on QF1 if its more than a a few minutes late there isn't time to go to the Lounge between the SYD-SIN and SIN-LHR segments.

 

[dajop]

I find SIN efficient, but the need to clear security again at the gate means on QF1 if its more than a a few minutes late there isn't time to go to the Lounge between the SYD-SIN and SIN-LHR segments.

Should be plenty of time, as it takes a certain amount of time to turn an A380 around anyway, and
they call the flight in the lounge when ready for boarding. Put it this way if you’re in the lounge and even if QF1 or 2 are running late you still see a noticeable stream of people hitting the lounge after it arrives.

If they had central security, the same would apply, and fact could be even worse.

 

[Lynda2475]

Last August we were asked to wait and not head to the lounge, the turnaround time was ~20 mins instead of 90mins (we got delayed out of SYD cause someone had checked a bag then failed to board). I only had time to use the toilet and wash my face and it was back through security.

Was also annoying cause they called for priority boarding and all these whYs pushed forward in the confined holding area and the F&J passengers had to fight/push our way through. Would have been nice to have a queue to the left/right for premium classes.

It wasn't like J would be holding them up ether since there is a separate door for the upper deck.

So I've only managed lounge time when stopping over in SIN and the lounge is a good one.

 

[justinbrett]

Also it's all well and good to push gate closure times when flying an airline like SQ, when most pax are used to SIN

But when flying an airline like BA, when 90% of the flight is in the pen at T-60 - you don't want to be the one "waltzing in" T-10 and finding a closed flight. Also when I think about it, I'd rather spend 10 extra minutes in my J seat drinking champagne than 10 minutes in the lounge knowing I still had the admin of clearing security ahead of me.

Last August we were asked to wait and not head to the lounge, the turnaround time was ~20 mins (got delayed out of SYD cause someone had checked a bag then failed to board). I only had time to use the toilet and wash my face and it was back through security.

Was also annoying cause they called for priority boarding and all these whYs pushed forward in the confined holding area and F&J passengers had to fight/push our way through. Would have been nice to have a queue to the left/right for premium classes/

It wasn't like J would be holding them up ether since there is a separate door for the upper deck.

So I've only managed lounge time when stopping over in SIN and the lounge is a good one.

Yup - it's being trapped in that holding pen that makes it a terrible experience. Your experience exactly matched my last one flying BA.

 

[dajop]

No amount of central security is ever going to change the scenario above with late running flights. But I think there’s on obvious conclusion to all the discussion:

-Those who “need” to be at the gate early hate SIN
-Those who have a pathological “need” to be at the gate just before the doors close, love SIN!

Simple as that.

 

[Guvner]

DXB has gate security checks if I'm not mistaken. Pretty sure we all got herded together at a C gate for the last DXB-MEL flight I was on. Probably took all of 10 minutes after joining the queue for a full A380.

 

[justinbrett]

No amount of central security is ever going to change the scenario above with late running flights. But I think there’s on obvious conclusion to all the discussion:

-Those who “need” to be at the gate early hate SIN
-Those who have a pathological “need” to be at the gate just before the doors close, love SIN!

Simple as that.

Plenty of airports around the world do centralised transit screening and do it without a wait. I can't say the few times I've connected I-I at SYD there was even a queue; same deal with AKL.

I wish people stopped using the USA as the benchmark. Just because SIN is quicker than the USA, doesn't mean gate security is faster!

If you like to walk onboard as the gate closes, you can do that do! In fact you want walk even later as it's one less hurdle to cross.

DXB has gate security checks if I'm not mistaken. Pretty sure we all got herded together at a C gate for the last DXB-MEL flight I was on. Probably took all of 10 minutes after joining the queue for a full A380.

Are you sure it was full security and non just the Australian Government top up security which happens at a lot of Asian ports?

 

[Guvner]

Plenty of airports around the world do centralised transit screening and do it without a wait. I can't say the few times I've connected I-I at SYD there was even a queue; same deal with AKL.

I wish people stopped using the USA as the benchmark. Just because SIN is quicker than the USA, doesn't mean gate security is faster!

If you like to walk onboard as the gate closes, you can do that do! In fact you want walk even later as it's one less hurdle to cross.



Are you sure it was full security and non just the Australian Government top up security which happens at a lot of Asian ports?

No. Not sure tbh. Cabin bag checks, passport and BP checks were done. We were transiting EK-EK from ATH.

edit - not transiting, we had a 3 day stopover, so did departure security twice. Memory failing me.

 

[justinbrett]

No. Not sure tbh. Cabin bag checks, passport and BP checks were done. We were transiting EK-EK from ATH.

I've had that before, sounds like the Australian Government checks. I don't recall any checks at all flying to LHR.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Each to their own of course but I Changi - feels like my second home