Chasing the Qantas 787

[CaptJCool]

https://dreamliner.qantas.com/article/melbourne---los-angeles-announced-as-first-dreamliner-flight

fares available now OPENED on Christmas Day
January points balance email stated first Melb-LAX FLIGHT IS FRIDAY 15 December

sadly, JQ been flying Dreamliner for 4 years .... so I'm puzzled why it's THAT SPECIAL

 

[serfty]

Unless you are TomCat, 787 flights are generally not that special...

 

[jb747]

Will 'proving flights' as such even exist? QF already owns a bunch of 787s, they're just in the wrong colours, but that does mean that pilots can get the flights they need readily enough before the QF painted aircraft arrive. Ground staff, engineers, etc already deal with them for other airlines. Whilst I'm sure there will be some flights, I wouldn't expect there to be a great number.

 

[NZflygirl]

Will 'proving flights' as such even exist? QF already owns a bunch of 787s, they're just in the wrong colours, but that does mean that pilots can get the flights they need readily enough before the QF painted aircraft arrive. Ground staff, engineers, etc already deal with them for other airlines. Whilst I'm sure there will be some flights, I wouldn't expect there to be a great number.

You have a good point

I'll have to be on to it when it finally arrives Oct? And selling flights for Dec do not much time to chase it.
Will have to cross my fingers and toes hoping my efforts are rewarded.

 

[docjames]

Off topic, but made me think, you could create a "fun" RTW using 787s only.

Clearly i'm having a busy day.

How's
SYD-AKL-SCL-MEX-CDG-LHR-NRT-SYD

Going the other way
SYD-DPS-DOH-CPH-LAX-SYD

There's quite a lot of options!

Boeing 787 Routes - Airport Spotting Blog

 

[RichardMEL]

I still suspect there will be proving flights for QF crew (some of which may come over from JQ, but likely not all) and airport/ramp stuff (again some may be shared, some not). PER is a prime example, they have never(that I know of) had a JQ 787 operation, yet to gear up for LHR flying I suspect QF would want to rotate a few flights through there (plus it works as a nice 330 type sub for transcon routes for capacity and config reasons-eg J suite, PE can have elite Y pax seated there, etc).
Would there be T-T flying? I'm not so convinced on that. QF can get longer haul local flying doing transcon between MEL/SYD and PER (maybe BNE) and also given AKL is unlikely to see a QF 787 anytime soon on a regular basis it's probably unlikely QF would want to route one there, but then again they do sub the odd 330 over there on higher demand occasions.

Just my gut instinct rather than any real idea of course. I do think the 787 will pop up on MEL-SYD randomally but MEL and PER, you would think, would be core locations for dom flying IMHO.

 

[RichardMEL]

btw it occurs to me regarding PE seats on any domestic and/or TT runs for the 787 that these would likely be sold as Y (not specifically as Y+) and allocated to elites or similar (or one could get lucky possibly) but I don't know you'd be able to guarantee a PE seat on any domestic flights the beat may run on.

 

[blackcat20]

btw it occurs to me regarding PE seats on any domestic and/or TT runs for the 787 that these would likely be sold as Y (not specifically as Y+) and allocated to elites or similar (or one could get lucky possibly) but I don't know you'd be able to guarantee a PE seat on any domestic flights the beat may run on.

With JQ, the "J" seats were available by paying the extra legroom fee. QF might do it like the F seats on the HKG route.

 

[RichardMEL]

With JQ, the "J" seats were available by paying the extra legroom fee. QF might do it like the F seats on the HKG route.

When QF sub the 380 for the 744 to/from HKG (eg: CNY) they allow elites pre-allocation of the F cabin but IIRC do not charge anything extra. This is why I suspect it's how it would work on these flights (or even on the 744 doing SYD-PER-SYD for oz day as per another current thread) - JQ is a little more agile with their booking engine to allow for such things, It could even be QF will just have the PE seats as Y and not bother to even preallocate to elites just whoever picks those seats, though I do suspect they would be blocked to non elites at time of booking but possibly available at check in. All a bit of a lottery.

the other thing is that given the schedules for any domestic flying of the 789 is going to be fluid, they would not want to lock in anything lest a sub happen late on and you'd go even from a 789 to a 332 with no PE, or even a 737.

 

[mitti]

Not when your knees are pressed into the back of the seat in front of you, no.

Just thought I'd butt in here - I believe the JAL 787s they use regionally are differently configured to the proper long haul international 787s. The longhaul ones have an extra inch of pitch over the yet to be in service Qantas ones, as well as the width benefits of 2-4-2 seating vs 3-3-3.

Not 100% sure but it could be the difference between 787-8 and 787-9 on JAL.

 

[blackcat20]

Just thought I'd butt in here - I believe the JAL 787s they use regionally are differently configured to the proper long haul international 787s. The longhaul ones have an extra inch of pitch over the yet to be in service Qantas ones, as well as the width benefits of 2-4-2 seating vs 3-3-3.

Not 100% sure but it could be the difference between 787-8 and 787-9 on JAL.

My understanding is that the newer ones have a better pitch; we got one of the originals and it was tight!

 

[PaulST]

I'd recommend you keep an eye out on some of the plane spotting groups as that's how I caught a flight on Retro Roo 1. Often there'll be someone who works for QF and knows which aircraft are flying which flights.

I'm booked on the inaugural 789 flight to LAX so will certainly be posting up my review of the flight. Sadly I couldn't stretch the budget to business class so will be stuck in the "revolutionary" (I have high expectations AJ...) premium economy.

 

[jb747]

I still suspect there will be proving flights for QF crew (some of which may come over from JQ, but likely not all) and airport/ramp stuff (again some may be shared, some not). PER is a prime example, they have never(that I know of) had a JQ 787 operation, yet to gear up for LHR flying I suspect QF would want to rotate a few flights through there .

No JQ pilots will be flying the QF aircraft, but QF can put some of its people onto JQ aircraft (with their C&T pilots) for the very few flights that each person will need. It will literally be one or two sectors for many. When the A380 was introduced, a small group flew the Airbus test aircraft for 10 hours each...and it was a totally new type. Malaysian provided sectors for the A330, and we trained the initial BA 380 batch. Once the first couple of aircraft are in service, training will be non-stop on them for a while, but there's no need for it to be 'outside' at all.

Perth isn't really relevant to the initial introduction. The first route is Melbourne - LA, and 787s are very common at both ends. Whilst I'm sure there will be some odd flights, there's no need for many.

 

[clazman]

How far out would QF have their pilots training for the 787 out of Perth?

 

[jb747]

How far out would QF have their pilots training for the 787 out of Perth?

They'll just be the same group who've been flying it out of the east coast. Training will be synchronised with the delivery of aircraft, with the training people themselves starting well ahead. There are probably some already doing it. But, removing the C&T people from the equation, you only need about 7 Capts and FOs per aircraft, so you don't need to do vast numbers per machine. The training paths will vary, almost per individual, depending upon what aircraft they are coming from, and what their background is. Ex 767 and 747 people probably two months. Airbus maybe four. The biggest training load will be behind them...replacing them on their current fleet, and then replacing the replacements. I think there can be something like 6 movements for every slot at the top end.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Just thought I'd butt in here - I believe the JAL 787s they use regionally are differently configured to the proper long haul international 787s. The longhaul ones have an extra inch of pitch over the yet to be in service Qantas ones, as well as the width benefits of 2-4-2 seating vs 3-3-3.

Not 100% sure but it could be the difference between 787-8 and 787-9 on JAL.

33" pitch and 19" width on JAL's 789 sounds very good.

Japan Airlines moves Sydney-Tokyo to Boeing 787-9

 

[RichardMEL]

No JQ pilots will be flying the QF aircraft, but QF can put some of its people onto JQ aircraft (with their C&T pilots) for the very few flights that each person will need. It will literally be one or two sectors for many. When the A380 was introduced, a small group flew the Airbus test aircraft for 10 hours each...and it was a totally new type. Malaysian provided sectors for the A330, and we trained the initial BA 380 batch. Once the first couple of aircraft are in service, training will be non-stop on them for a while, but there's no need for it to be 'outside' at all.

Perth isn't really relevant to the initial introduction. The first route is Melbourne - LA, and 787s are very common at both ends. Whilst I'm sure there will be some odd flights, there's no need for many.

As usual jb you make some very good points and I have no argument with what you're saying

My small counter-Q is this: If very few flights will be required (and what about cabin crew training?) If the first aircraft or two are due in October, then why schedule the first flight to LAX for mid December? I don't think that would only be able demand suiting the a/c at that time of year.

As I mentioned my thoughts on PER are that JQ has no 787's there and while PER have 787's visit (I think TG and EY or is it QR?) serve with a 787, it's possible QF's ground crews don't deal with any that do arrive, plus as we know PER-LHR will operate from the QF domestic terminal on ramp,. so I am sure they will want to at least spend some time with a/c there just to get the ground support familiar. I know those flights aren't slated till April, 2018 but I suspect post December the shells QF have will be busy on the MEL-LAX run so probably won't have much scope for domestic stuff in between(if at all).. ergo I think PER will see some action (plus it will be a reasonably close capacity swap for a 330 in/out of there).

Sure I could be very wrong and they just do a few sectors without pax or the odd sub a few a week or something during November and early December. We just have to wait and see. It will be interesting to see how they handle it

 

[RichardMEL]

btw to clarify my comment about JQ pilots and the QF 787's... what I was meaning was that some JQ pilots may seek to transition to QF (or back to QF as some went over). I have no idea if that's even a potential possibility of course, but that was what I was meaning with my comment - I wasn't suggesting JQ would loan 787 pilots to QF or anything like that. Just to be clear

 

[jb747]

Not really relevant to this thread, just made me think of it...

Seniority as a system has served pretty well. Generally, the only ones who complain about it, are those that don't have any. Basically, it's simply a queue. The 787s are, at this point, very senior. That will change if there are more, and as their route structure evolves. Right now though, most 787 people, will be ex 330. And probably ex 767 before that. Old farts like me are prevented from bidding onto it by a restriction on 'bidding backwards'. That's quite a logical provision, and anyway, there are far too few engines.

JQ and QF pilots were able to bid across airlines by an agreement arranged many years ago. Basically it provided protected slots in each airline at the appropriate seniority level. That has been only one way though, as the seniority of a JQ 787 captain would only be equivalent to roughly a QF 737 FO. There has obviously never been any movement from JQ to QF. Many QF FOs have gone there for a command. As far as I know, the vast majority have come back after a couple of years. That leads me to the ultimate luxury of a coughpit though...I may have an FO who is an ex 767 Captain, and both SO may be ex JQ Captains. I sleep pretty soundly with that lot.

 

[Himeno]

Just thought I'd butt in here - I believe the JAL 787s they use regionally are differently configured to the proper long haul international 787s. The longhaul ones have an extra inch of pitch over the yet to be in service Qantas ones, as well as the width benefits of 2-4-2 seating vs 3-3-3.

Not 100% sure but it could be the difference between 787-8 and 787-9 on JAL.

All of JALs 787-9s have "Sky Suites" and use SS9 as the aircraft/config identifier on JALs schedules. (labeled E71 on the JAL sites seat map - 44J 35W 116Y)
All the 787-8s delivered after the "New Sky" program started are in "SS8" sky suite config - there hasn't been any announced reconfig on the older aircraft that I can find.
Which leaves 15 aircraft with the older "NEO" J seats (E01 config) with 42J 144Y and 10 SS8/E11 config 38J 35W 88Y.

They aren't used for "regional" flights, JALs older config 788s could be used on any 787 route that doesn't appear on their Sky Suite list JAL - Information on the routes upon which JAL Sky Suite 777 , JAL Sky Suite 767 and JAL SKY SUITE 787 are to be introduced