[Check in Staff not] Understanding QF/OW Tier Benefits.

[sudoer]

Not Qantas, but close enough....

Contracted check-in staff at outstations are not employed by Qantas. They are employed by a ground services operator such as Menzies or Swissport.

Introduction to Lounge Services

I wouldn't expect this to entail more than "Elite or J/F pax get access to our contracted lounge". It is, after all, an introduction.

Airline product Knowledge (there is a whole training module for that!)

CX or EK lounges at outstations are not part of Qantas' airline product unless they are the QF contracted lounge at that location (eg DXB). Access to them is NOT guaranteed, their opening hours are not bound to QF departures and they are free to turn pax away due to capacity constraints.

 

[Vic]

Not Qantas, but close enough....

Introduction to Lounge Services
Airline product Knowledge (there is a whole training module for that!)

I would think lounges are part of the product?

Indeed, I would agree. Now what is the lounge product of Qantas? The Qantas Lounge.
Introduction to Lounge Services? After security turn right and go up the stairs to get to the Qantas Lounge.

 

[Max Samuels]

I wouldn't expect this to entail more than "Elite or J/F pax get access to our contracted lounge". It is, after all, an introduction.

Just as you "wouldn't expect this to entail more than blah blah blah", I WOULD expect training to include something about OW lounges, reciprocity, who can enter etc.

We all have different expectations and standards.

i expect trains to run on time
I expect my taxi driver to know where the airport is
I expect the QF check-in agent (QF staff or not) to know about the EK lounge

Maybe we can find some common ground though, as I think that too many people get offended if the darling Kangaroo gets bashed too much.....

Would it be unreasonable, in especially large ports (like NRT) , to have a OneWorld help desk/customer service desk? I mean, we pay money for this. QF pays big bucks to be part of that club, and we pay for that in our tickets... this desk could be manned by a few staff, and their only job is to know about OW stuff.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Or alternatively, any passenger interested in a different lounge could spend two seconds to either (a) read their membership leaflet or (b) read the web?

 

[sudoer]

We all have different expectations and standards.

Can you share the check-in agent job description with us? Maybe that will finally put the discussion to bed!

Yes, I expected providing a check-in agent JD which doesn't list "provide expert advice on all airport lounges" as a responsibility to be the end of it, but alas...

I think that too many people get offended if the darling Kangaroo gets bashed too much.....

If you think I'm debating this just because the discussion started around QF, you are mistaken. My expectation of what a check-in agent should help with applies to all full service airlines.

I do have lower expectations for LCC check-in staff as the airlines generally don't have lounges, won't check through bags, and usually have no fare flexibility. I would not expect a JQ staff member to direct a WP to the QF F lounge - but I guess you'd expect that too?

Would it be unreasonable, in especially large ports (like NRT) , to have a OneWorld help desk/customer service desk? I mean, we pay money for this. QF pays big bucks to be part of that club, and we pay for that in our tickets... this desk could be manned by a few staff, and their only job is to know about OW stuff.

Oneworld do operate Global Support teams at LHR, MAD, JFK, MIA, DFW, ORD, LAX, NRT and HKG, predominately assisting with IRROPS. I've had these staff meet me on arrival to help with tight connections. I don't know if they have a desk you can openly approach, but the staff are around.

 

[Vic]

Maybe we can find some common ground though, as I think that too many people get offended if the darling Kangaroo gets bashed too much.....

Commenting about unreasonable expectations isn't really getting offended. Just pointing out, in this case, the idea that a Qantas check in agent only sells qantas products. If you don't want to use the product Qantas offer, then it's reasonable to expect the customer to inform themselves about the alternatives.

 

[RichardMEL]

This has nothing to do with the kangaroo. Many of us are discussing the general notion. While you, Max, may be focusing on NRT as a particular example the discussion has clearly evolved to what one should expect from check in agents, and perhaps more speccifically at out stations/services provided by contracted staff.

And honestly to me, if a JL agent handling a QF flight at NRT or HND doesn't know if I can access a CX or EK lounge (or not) - *I* do not make QF responsible for that, even if that agent is representing QF in this particular instance because maybe I'm a little more understanding of the complexities and realities of real world airline operations and the complexities of partnerships and alliances.

This is not just a OW issue either obviously. If I check in for a UA flight at LAX, I do not expect nor require them to tell me that I can access the UA lounge, the AC lounge, the TBIT NZ run Star Lounge or whatever with my status and/or class of travel.

Here's an offshoot of the expecation argument.. would you expect this same check in agent to know and be able to to deal with a ticketng issue with a RTW fare? I know I would not. I would either expect them to hand me to a ticketing desk/agent if that existed(because they can't be tied up dealing with that when they are supposed to be checking in pax) and/or liase with the appropriate ticketing desk/airline.

While on the surface it seems bsolutely reasonable that any employee one comes across in the travel process that they should be knowledgeable of products and services and be able to assist any passenger - common sense and real world experience tells many of us this simply can't be the case.

It's kind of like in my area of employement I work in IT. I have specific responsibilities and knowledge in particular areas (ie: my job). This doesn't mean I can do anything and everything with a computer.. in fact if I was to tackle some systems I am unfamiliar with I could actually do damage, even with my knowledge and understanding and decades of experience. That is not an issue of training - it's not my area of expertise. If I asked a generalise question I can give a view and venture options/opinions based on my knowledge and experience, but that doesn't mean, for example, I can fix your Apple Ipad that isn't booting properly or sort out the wireless printer in the lounge not printing. That doesn't mean I can't do my job or even do it well.. my job is just specific to certain things. Just the same that a check in agent's role and responsibilities and specialised skills should be related to their day to day tasks of checking in people, doing bag tags, sorting out interline issues, making sure visas and passports are checked and all that. Incidently I would not expect a lounge agent to waltz in and take over a check in or ticketing desk just like that - even though they both are CS staff employed by a particular airline.

The way you are arguing (Max) I honestly wonder how much experience you have with worldwide travel apart from being tormented by asian wedding shows or whatever it was and having a hatred for QR?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Access to A LOUNGE is part of the product.
Shopping around for the best lounge is a hobby.

 

[Max Samuels]

It's kind of like in my area of employement I work in IT. I have specific responsibilities and knowledge in particular areas (ie: my job). This doesn't mean I can do anything and everything with a computer.. in fact if I was to tackle some systems I am unfamiliar with I could actually do damage,

Wow what a rant. I hope your area of "employement "does require you to able to spell

And make sure you go up-thread and similarly belittle those who agree with me (and there are quite a few!) as people whom you "honestly wonder how much experience you have with worldwide travel"... LOL

But if you think that a check-in agent knowing the 8 lounges a passenger can use is the same as knowing "anything and everything with a computer".... well, we are really on different levels.

L.O.L.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Wow what a rant. I hope your area of "employement "does require you to able to spell

And make sure you go up-thread and similarly belittle those who agree with me (and there are quite a few!) as people whom you "honestly wonder how much experience you have with worldwide travel"... LOL

But if you think that a check-in agent knowing the 8 lounges a passenger can use is the same as knowing "anything and everything with a computer".... well, we are really on different levels.

L.O.L.

Personally I think it's probably best to focus on the issues and not belittle anyone for making a typo.
Similarly, all jobs are different, but every job has its own demands. I'm a well paid professional, but I don't sneer at checkin agents.
Having worked in restaurants while I was studying for my professional qualifications, I know how difficult customer service jobs can be.
I respect people who do such jobs for what is generally pretty poor pay. We depend on them playing their part.
Their part includes directing passengers to an appropriate lounge. It does not, in my ever so humble opinion, include indulging our rather niche hobby of leveraging the various lounge access rules to find "the best" lounge in any given airport.
Expecting the latter really is on a different level.
And not one to which I aspire.

 

[RichardMEL]

But if you think that a check-in agent knowing the 8 lounges a passenger can use is the same as knowing "anything and everything with a computer".... well, we are really on different levels.

L.O.L.

You are showing yourself to be verging on a troll., as in other threads frankly. I used an example to support a point.

On the one hand you seem to be suggesting check in agents should know, pretty much everything by your desire that they can tell any pax that comes along all the lounge options they can use, which is akin to someone asking me about things in IT that are outside my area of direct expertise, It's a pretty simple anlogy.

Since you seem unable to appreciate what "the other view" is I'll just leave it here. I hope every agent you come across in your travels gives you the information and details that you expect, but you may be disappointed - and it seems you frequently are based on other threads.

 

[RooFlyer]

There is a lounge finder on the OneWorld website.

Unfortunately, as Serfty pointed out recently, that's been enhanced to the point of uselessness, with some glaring omissions.

You clearly do not have a complete grasp of how complex Qantas' lounge entry rules are, or you are grossly overestimating the abilities of a 15yo high school student.

Complex they undoubtedly are, but as long as the combinations are finite, they can be defined online.

But they chronically are not. If there was such a look up table, even the lounge dragons could look it up if they were unsure or if a pax was Challenging them.

 

[mrsterryn]

At what point is there a responsibility for the passenger to take ownership of their trip ?
I just googled "Qantas business class fare " nice and simple and it told me I could use their lounges or their partner lounges .
With regards to specific lounges I would think the staff would always direct to the company lounge
In your example you cite a gold status going to a 'tired lounge ' this does indicate to me this person does travel there often. Why wouldn't she Google her entitled lounges ?
I am not having a go at your friend but wonder why not check it out ?
Many years ago when I was doing a stack of travel domestically for work my goal was front up , check in and board the plane.
I really didn't want to engage the staff as this was trip I did so so often and just wanted it done .

 

[RooFlyer]

At what point is there a responsibility for the passenger to take ownership of their trip ?

Totally agree with that philosophy, but the issue is completness and accuracy of the information conveyed to a customer at check in. If there is a service provided, included in the fare, and they are telling part of the story, I reckon they should convey the complete story on that aspect or even ".. you can access The Qantas lounge or any OneWorld lounge..." etc. Or don't say 'no' re other lounge access, if asked,when the answer is 'yes'.

 

[Vic]

Wow what a rant. I hope your area of "employement "does require you to able to spell

Oh ya git me their. pockung on Speeling mistokes, they're is no came bak...
you wyn

 

[p--and--t]

Agreed. But still worth wondering about, don't you think? One could argue that they are being PAID to do that job so should be appropriately trained?

Absolutely agree.

However, note they are being paid to be a check-in agent for one airline. Not a FF expert on their own airline, let alone all partner airlines.

 

[verduzzo]

If we're talking about One World rules and ignorance of check in / lounge staff, let's add to the list the lounge access rules when flying J long haul and Y short-haul, all on one OW ticket...OW website states access to be given, but it is impossible to find any (QF in this instance, on multiple occasions), willing to adhere. Hard to explain when travelling in a group of four family members why I can only guest in one to the lounge, when by all rights (at least, according to OW), we should all have access.

 

[p--and--t]

You do realise at some stations the matrix of lounges passengers can access could get really complicated?
For example you have to consider, for a QF flight for example, Class of Service access to lounges (which may be just QF, QF and OW, or QF/OW/EK or even a partner one included), then you need to consider QF status pax ranked as Gold, Plat+ then other onewold status members (remember QF lounge entry rules are different at QF lounges for QF status than for corresponding OW status holders) and then partner status pax, such as EK and so on. The matrix would be insane.

And let me get this right, you want an agent to say to passenger X:

"SO ma'am you may use the Qantas lounge for your flight today. But I also see you are a Platinum, so you may also use the Cathay First or Business Lounge, The American Flagship lounge, and oh, you are on a QF flight number, so you may use the Emirate Lounge also"
then the passenger gets even more confused.

I think you way over simplified the complete response needing to be given.

What about x lounge closes at 1800, y lounge doesn't open for an hour, z lounge doesn't have free alcohol, u lounge is being renovated and half the usual size, t lounge will be full because there are 2x A380s on the stand.

 

[Danger]

Not exactly fun... but off the top of my head

The QF J lounges.
The CX J lounges
Any the other OW J lounges
the EK lounge

The same for Plat except they can use the F lounge if there is one....

And even if there are some mistakes in the above list....

1) I don't work for the airline
2) I didn't bother looking it up
3) I've provided more helpful info than the check-in staff!!

And... if you bother reading some of the other comments.... many people think it ISN'T as confusing as it is made out to be, and if the airlines BOTHERED to train their staff, it would be even less confusing...

As another member pointed out, that's not exactly helpful. Imagine if your ideal check-in agent said "You have access to the Cathay Business lounges". Your next question is likely to be "Where are they?" then perhaps "Does the lounge make boarding announcements, have a shower, providing complimentary Aesop facials and allow me to make noisy handsfree calls to my mates on holiday in Bali?" From what you've said I can't imagine you'd be satisfied if a check-in agent said "You have access to any oneworld Business lounges" and that was it. Your list is hardly informative.

Just as you "wouldn't expect this to entail more than blah blah blah", I WOULD expect training to include something about OW lounges, reciprocity, who can enter etc.

We all have different expectations and standards.

i expect trains to run on time
I expect my taxi driver to know where the airport is
I expect the QF check-in agent (QF staff or not) to know about the EK lounge

I expect my taxi driver to know where the airport is, too. I don't expect my driver to know the best place in town to get a fake fur coat or to recommend a cheap place to get a sim card.

Maybe we can find some common ground though, as I think that too many people get offended if the darling Kangaroo gets bashed too much.....

Would it be unreasonable, in especially large ports (like NRT) , to have a OneWorld help desk/customer service desk? I mean, we pay money for this. QF pays big bucks to be part of that club, and we pay for that in our tickets... this desk could be manned by a few staff, and their only job is to know about OW stuff.

Where does it end? Should the check-in agent also know the types of wine that will be served on-board or whether you're getting pyjamas or if the self-serve bar stocks Bundaberg light ginger beer or which side of the plane to sit for the best views on landing?

As for having a printed sheet of paper, what a waste. And as myself and others have pointed out, given QF can't get it right on their own website, I have little faith they'd get it right on paper.

 

[mannej]

If we're talking about One World rules and ignorance of check in / lounge staff, let's add to the list the lounge access rules when flying J long haul and Y short-haul, all on one OW ticket...OW website states access to be given, but it is impossible to find any (QF in this instance, on multiple occasions), willing to adhere. Hard to explain when travelling in a group of four family members why I can only guest in one to the lounge, when by all rights (at least, according to OW), we should all have access.

Can you provide reference to where OW lists this?