China travel bans from Late 2022

[Tropic]

Interesting chat with guy at the tyre shop this morning.

His main thesis was:
1. Covid is everywhere now and people no longer bothering to test or isolate, and resistance is futile.
2. All this border protection and pre flight testing stuff is political/xenophobic BS as everyone has the inalienable right to travel whereever they want, legally or illegally, with Covid or without, so no need to worry about the "science" anymore.
3. We have all agreed to "let it rip" accepting some wont survive but the vast majority will...
4. we should all learn to "love the bomb" and get on with our lives...

Interesting POV. At least I got a good deal on my tyres...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Those measures do not look expensive and a business case would be developed to introduce them - ie we would gain more value than we would be spending. The actions we are talking mean we would no longer have the opportunity to find out more about Covid in China while we get no compensatory benefit from the testing before departure.

Ok. But by the time we develop a business case… has the horse bolted?

in terms of costs and spending we should probably look at a mandatory travel/medical insurance requirement for all incoming non-Australia pax not otherwise covered by a reciprocal health agreement.

 

[Mr H]

Interesting chat with guy at the tyre shop this morning.

His main thesis was:
1. Covid is everywhere now and people no longer bothering to test or isolate, and resistance is futile.
2. All this border protection and pre flight testing stuff is political/xenophobic BS as everyone has the inalienable right to travel whereever they want, legally or illegally, with Covid or without, so no need to worry about the "science" anymore.
4. We have all agreed to "let it rip" accepting some wont survive but the vast majority will...
5. we should all learn to "love the bomb" and get on with our lives...

Interesting POV. At least I got a good deal on my tyres...

Did you tell him that he’s actually in agreement with the scientists right now?

 

[Mr H]

Ok. But by the time we develop a business case… has the horse bolted?

Not really, it would take an afternoon’s deep thought on the subject.

in terms of costs and spending we should probably look at a mandatory travel/medical insurance requirement for all incoming non-Australia pax not otherwise covered by a reciprocal health agreement.

Iran has been doing that for years. But not sure how it would benefit us since we charge overseas visitors for healthcare anyway.

 

[Tropic]

Did you tell him that he’s actually in agreement with the scientists right now?

Didnt get a chance... after he started talking about Covid being an alien conspiracy and the coming dystopian new world order, I developed a strange twitch in my right eye and kinda zoned out...

 

[jakeseven7]

China doesn't exactly help itself by requiring others to have the test prior to entry. Can hardly cry foul.

So what, China does lots of weird stuff, why do we need to copy this one in particular.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Iran has been doing that for years. But not sure how it would benefit us since we charge overseas visitors for healthcare anyway.

We charge, but I haven’t seen the figures on how many actually pay… especially for hospital emergency admissions? GPs I believe it would be upfront payment.

 

[Mr H]

We charge, but I haven’t seen the figures on how many actually pay… especially for hospital emergency admissions? GPs I believe it would be upfront payment.

We would just set fees to cover the non-payers, presumably. The insurance is there to cover the insured, not the healthcare provider.

 

[RooFlyer]

I’m not sure what the rationale is for imposing testing on arrivals from China.

So what, China does lots of weird stuff, why do we need to copy this one in particular.

The explicit reason given by the Treasurer (??? govt spokesman ... the only guy on deck??) this morning, was, in the face of contrary advice from the federal Chief Medical Officer, that a bunch of other countries are doing it (pre arrival tests).

So we've out-sourced our health system decision-making.

 

[serfty]

So we've out-sourced our health system decision-making.

I suspect it's actually been outsourced to "Focus groups" (and such decision making has been for some time). That would be why it took a couple of days ...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The explicit reason given by the Treasurer (??? govt spokesman ... the only guy on deck??) this morning, was, in the face of contrary advice from the federal Chief Medical Officer, that a bunch of other countries are doing it (pre arrival tests).

So we've out-sourced our health system decision-making.

Can’t win!

When CHOs and CMOs were making all the decisions, such as masks and lockdowns, the people demanded the government take back control.

Now they have, and people want the CHO and CMO advice to be replied upon, solely.

I’m surprised by the comments on news.com(.au) that many Australians are ‘outraged’ about the travel restrictions on those coming from China. They believe the restrictions are unfair.

seriously? I can’t think of anyone who actually cares… except those with a general opinion favouring ‘small government’.

It seems like some foreign propaganda machines are working overtime to flood our media and social media with anti-testing and racially motivated sentiment. For 99% of the population asking someone with covid to delay their travel wouldn’t even register on the list of things to worry about.

 

[Tropic]

The inmates are running the aslyum...

 

[oz_mark]

It seems like some foreign propaganda machines are working overtime to flood our media and social media with anti-testing and racially motivated sentiment. For 99% of the population asking someone with covid to delay their travel wouldn’t even register on the list of things to worry about.

The reality is, that at some point, we had to start managing it the way we manage any other disease. Many seem to have moved on to this points of view, but certainly not everybody.

 

[tomlee1986]

The reality is, that at some point, we had to start managing it the way we manage any other disease. Many seem to have moved on to this points of view, but certainly not everybody.

I understand your view and I do support this view under normal circumstances, but the big issue is the fact that China is NOT transparent with its data on this outbreak compared to other countries, hence we need to have these measures in place to prevent what we see in China now happen in Australia - had this outbreak happen in USA or Europe, we would know this outbreak very quickly and how to manage it... but sorry this is China... it wont happen and we need to prepare for anything

 

[Mr H]

I understand your view and I do support this view under normal circumstances, but the big issue is the fact that China is NOT transparent with its data on this outbreak compared to other countries, hence we need to have these measures in place to prevent what we see in China now happen in Australia - had this outbreak happen in USA or Europe, we would know this outbreak very quickly and how to manage it... but sorry this is China... it wont happen and we need to prepare for anything

The CMO advice is that what is happening in China right now will not happen in Australia because we are vaccinated.

Incidentally, you say that if the outbreak had happened in USA or Europe (and actually it already has done...) then we would quickly work out how to deal with it - yet your current argument is that we need to prevent something like this from breaking out in USA, Europe or Australia.

At heart, you seem to have a problem with China rather than with Covid.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The CMO advice is that what is happening in China right now will not happen in Australia because we are vaccinated.

Incidentally, you say that if the outbreak had happened in USA or Europe (and actually it already has done...) then we would quickly work out how to deal with it - yet your current argument is that we need to prevent something like this from breaking out in USA, Europe or Australia.

At heart, you seem to have a problem with China rather than with Covid.

Ah. 'vaccinated'. But that's against a variant that we are being told about. Are we sure that's the actual variant currently circulating?

 

[Mr H]

Ah. 'vaccinated'. But that's against a variant that we are being told about. Are we sure that's the actual variant currently circulating?

Yes

 

[Princess Fiona]

Ah. 'vaccinated'. But that's against a variant that we are being told about. Are we sure that's the actual variant currently circulating?

There’s some data from Beijing that shows it’s primarily the Omicron BA.5 subvariant BF.7
That has already swept through Australia last winter.
The bivalent booster is adapted for BA.5

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There’s some data from Beijing that shows it’s primarily the Omicron BA.5 subvariant BF.7
That has already swept through Australia last winter.
The bivalent booster is adapted for BA.5

That's my point. It's data from Beijing. There could be many reasons why they are downplaying that.

 

[tomlee1986]

That's my point. It's data from Beijing. There could be many reasons why they are downplaying that.

This is from Reuters on December 22, 2022 questioning the accuracy of the death count in China

Analysis: How accurate are China's COVID-19 death numbers?

China's narrow criteria for identifying deaths caused by COVID-19 will underestimate the true toll of the pandemic's current wave there and could make it harder to communicate the best ways for people to protect themselves, foreign health experts warn.

www.reuters.com