CI A350 + Cathay A330 vs JAL 787-8 J

[Sprucegoose]

It's also sinking and could be completely submerged in the future.

It sounds like a poor marine contractor was engaged!

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

I find that CI J is better than CX these days.

 

[Sprucegoose]

It's also sinking and could be completely submerged in the future.

You are correct!

The construction of the artificial airport presents a complex engineering challenge due to its location on soft clay, which is settling and compacting at a faster and uneven rate than initially anticipated. The airport was expected to settle uniformly over five decades, stabilising at the height of thirteen feet above sea level to prevent flooding. However, it reached this critical point in just six years, leading to extensive remediation work costing hundreds of millions, reinforcing the seawall to protect the structure from submergence.

The uneven settling has resulted in the need for remediation and reinforcement of specific sections of the airport. Additionally, despite being designed to withstand seismic and weather events, the unforeseen settling poses a threat to its structural integrity.

The uncertain settling pattern raises concerns about whether the airport will eventually conform to the original design specifications, partially sink, or submerge entirely. As always this highlights the necessity for comprehensive risk management when constructing infrastructure underwater and underground.

The potential challenges ahead have implications for investors, operators, underwriters, and the city, which may need to consider alternative plans. Developing such infrastructure takes decades, and the airport's future presents significant considerations for all involved.

As a visitor, understanding these challenges will provide insight and appreciation for the complexities surrounding the airport's development.
When I land there, I will know and appreciate the airport's future challenges!

 

[Sprucegoose]

I find that CI J is better than CX these days.

@Ansett Nostalgic

That's an interesting comment that I need to investigate more thoroughly. What is it about CI that is superior to CX? I am looking at t a few trips for early next year so it's a timely discussion, thanks

 

[tmdl]

@Ansett Nostalgic

That's an interesting comment that I need to investigate more thoroughly. What is it about CI that is superior to CX? I am looking at t a few trips for early next year so it's a timely discussion, thanks

I havent flown either but btu can only go by what friends have said. I also have a flight with CI next week in J on the 777

but from what I can see CI has a great hard product with great cabin mood lighting, dining options that have michelin stars / renowned restaurants, vintage champagne, great wine, Johnnie Walker Blue Label and a little onboard bar/ galley

I can report back after in 2 weeks

 

[Matt_01]

friends just recently flew from MEL - TPE (4 Oct 2024) they were offered 'The House' lounge in Melbourne

I wonder if lounge access is hit and miss or dependant on which ever lounge the check-in direct you to. In June 2023 I was directed to the Marhaba lounge but tempted fate and was let into the QF F lounge. Another AFFer (@ShelleyB) who is doing a TR at the moment mentioned (posted on 25 Sep 24) that they were directed to the Marhaba lounge, in the same TR @rbjhan responded stating the House lounge was the offered when travelling in May 24.

 

[rbjhan]

I wonder if lounge access is hit and miss or dependant on which ever lounge the check-in direct you to. In June 2023 I was directed to the Marhaba lounge but tempted fate and was let into the QF F lounge. Another AFFer (@ShelleyB) who is doing a TR at the moment mentioned (posted on 25 Sep 24) that they were directed to the Marhaba lounge, in the same TR @rbjhan responded stating the House lounge was the offered when travelling in May 24.

Okay let me clarify, when I travelled in May 24, I was told both The House and Marhaba were available. I went to The House because hey that's an obvious choice!

 

[Matt_01]

@rbjhan did you check in at MEL as this may un pick a few things. For my trip, it was QF rewards on a CI flight number. I had started in ADL and had the CI boarding pass on QF paper upon arriving at the QF F lounge in MEL initially they were not sure if I should be allowed access but when they check and saw I was on a 081-x ticket they let me in. I only when to the Marhaba Lounge for a look as it was next door. If I had checked in at MEL and was given the option of either The House or Marhaba I know which one I would have chosen.

The Marhaba Lounge is the old EK lounge and when it was EK it was much nicer.

 

[rbjhan]

Late for the discussion. I am however familiar with all 3... that is to say personally I don't like the JAL Apex Suites, but if you are tall it can be more comfortable than the reserve herringbones.

I am flying MEL-TPE-NRT with CI & CX next year - note that CX change aircraft on its Taiwan - Japan routes regularly. You can get those terrible regional J seats.....and no way to know until it's too late.

 

[rbjhan]

@rbjhan did you check in at MEL as this may un pick a few things. For my trip, it was QF rewards on a CI flight number. I had started in ADL and had the CI boarding pass on QF paper upon arriving at the QF F lounge in MEL initially they were not sure if I should be allowed access but when they check and saw I was on a 081-x ticket they let me in. I only when to the Marhaba Lounge for a look as it was next door. If I had checked in at MEL and was given the option of either The House or Marhaba I know which one I would have chosen.

The Marhaba Lounge is the old EK lounge and when it was EK it was much nicer.

Yes I am based in MEL.

CI and JL were both exclusively Marhaba for quite some time, I am sadly very familiar with it. However it is still better than the QF dungeon for those of us can't get into the Flounge.

The House seems to be a new thing for CI, I don't know when it started.
Only thing I find is Points Hack mentioned it (but that's around the same time as me).

The House Lounge, Melbourne

Sprawling tarmac views, an extensive coughtail list and a dedicated family room make Melbourne's The House lounge worthy of a visit.

www.pointhacks.com.au

 

[ShelleyB]

I wonder if lounge access is hit and miss or dependant on which ever lounge the check-in direct you to. In June 2023 I was directed to the Marhaba lounge but tempted fate and was let into the QF F lounge. Another AFFer (@ShelleyB) who is doing a TR at the moment mentioned (posted on 25 Sep 24) that they were directed to the Marhaba lounge, in the same TR @rbjhan responded stating the House lounge was the offered when travelling in May 24.

To clarify I was travelling CI on points. However, as far as I could see all J passengers were being directed to the Marhaba lounge. For example I happened to see a work colleague in the queue who was meant to have been on a CX flight earlier that day but which was cancelled, and a number of passengers from that flight were accommodated on the CI flight, and he too was directed to the Marhaba lounge.

 

[Matt_01]

I am only playing along at home as I will be booking some more flights and CI are in the mix as I think their product is nice. As I start in ADL I not fussed if I have to transit through MEL or SYD.

 

[rbjhan]

I am only playing along at home as I will be booking some more flights and CI are in the mix as I think their product is nice. As I start in ADL I not fussed if I have to transit through MEL or SYD.

Call me crazy but I don't think the difference between Marhaba & The House is big enough to outweigh the Domestic-International transfer at SYD!

 

[Matt_01]

@rbjhan my preference is MEL however when travelling INT J on points I will transit through any airport that has flight availability. MEL and SYD were my preferred options for the F lounge, now I have lost this I am just not fussed.

 

[MelbFlyer]

I'm leaning towards sticking with QF as it's 1-2-1 rather than the 2-2-2 narrower product on JL (B787).

I've been on QF business a few times, never been on JL before even in Economy.

Thinking of just trying JL, but the hard product seems inferior. Soft service should be excellent though, knowing Japanese hospitality and food.

I generally put the hard product over the soft product. Decisions.

The 2-2-2 Apex Suite window seat is very good and has direct aisle access, don't dismiss it because it's 2-2-2.

It was moreso that it's narrower and also lacks the privacy (ie. retractable panel has to be lowered on take-off / landing etc) of even QFs A330/B787/A380 business class product.

52cm vs 58cm seat width plus the lack of a useful / proper side table on JL is a huge difference IMO.

True, but I would say other than takeoff and landing the Apex Suites are the most private seats without a door. Agree storage can be annoying.

So, I've replaced my QF A330 business seat with a JL B787 business seat due to a date change.

I'm sitting here in the Sakura Lounge in NRT waiting for JL773 hoping that it is NOT the Flat Shell Neo seat and the Apex suite as mentioned below. MMB states "SS" so I'm hoping that it's that.

I don't know if it still happens, but last time I checked (last year) JAL would sometimes swaps out the MEL-NRT 787-8 from Sky Suite to Shell Flat Neo (angle flat) seats.

I'll provide my verdict on it once I hop onboard. I've got a window seat and I'm expecting it to be narrow but private.

 

[MelbFlyer]

So, I'm onboard now and it's the Apex suite.

The hard product so far, lags far behind all of CIs / CXs and QFs business class product.

I'll wait for the soft service soon though before making a final judgement.

 

[encryptededdy]

Unfortunate to hear that you don't like it (although I would disagree re. the hard product having flown all the products named), but at least it wasn't the Shell Flat Neo I suppose. Hope you have a good flight anyway (despite your experience with the seat).

 

[elanshin]

Unfortunate to hear that you don't like it (although I would disagree re. the hard product having flown all the products named), but at least it wasn't the Shell Flat Neo I suppose. Hope you have a good flight anyway (despite your experience with the seat).

Speaking of which, would you fly out differently to specifically catch the JL A351 over their b789 now? (A351 being a less ideal departure date). I'm looking at HND - LHR flights and plenty on their 789 but very very few seats on their 351 planes.

 

[encryptededdy]

Speaking of which, would you fly out differently to specifically catch the JL A351 over their b789 now? (A351 being a less ideal departure date). I'm looking at HND - LHR flights and plenty on their 789 but very very few seats on their 351 planes.

I dunno, haven't tried the A351. I booked the A351 for my trip to New York and they last minute equipment changed me to the 777

 

[MelbFlyer]

Unfortunate to hear that you don't like it (although I would disagree re. the hard product having flown all the products named), but at least it wasn't the Shell Flat Neo I suppose. Hope you have a good flight anyway (despite your experience with the seat).

So my verdict after the flight - I definitely would not recommend JL business class.

The only standout thing for me was the Sakura Lounge at NRT - I really liked the segregation of dining / non-dining areas and the quietness of the lounge due to Japanese custom. Food choices were also pretty good too.

Now though, the cons, and boy there were a few.

1. The seat - Nice and private (I had a window seat) when the suite divider is up, but severely lacks storage space other than the small ledge where the IFE is (however, is out of reach for most if your tray table is being used), or behind your seat (however, this area can't be used during taxi and landing), or the tray table flap when put down. Aisle seats have a little cubby for storage but lacks the privacy of window seats.
2. The overall suite felt very outdated and the IFE is horrible to use - both using it via the controller and also the fact that the screen is well out of reach unless you lean forward. The IFE screen is nice and big though.
3. No welcome drink upon boarding? A drink was served after takeoff (I got a Sake) but the snack was not served on a little dish but just in foil packaging (ie. like potato chips). Felt cheap tbh.
4. Now this is subjective, but the food was disappointing especially as it was catered from their home base. Naturally being on JL, I chose the Japanese set menu. The breakfast though (final pic below), was particularly bad - the rice was not heated at all / was still hard and I ended up only having 1 spoonful of it. I felt bad wasting food but it was inedible.
5. Wet / hot towels provided but not actively collected upon use - only collected when I placed it back on the food trays when I finished meals.

I was hoping that the soft service would make up for the inferior hard product, but disappointingly it didn't.

IMO there's absolutely no comparison between CI / CX / QFs 1-2-1 business class products (even the oldest A330 CX or QF you could get). JL would be far down the list for me moving forward, if even on the consideration list.

I flew QF business to Japan and honestly that was much better than JL, and that's really saying something. The Japanese set menu catering on QF leaving Melbourne was better than JL from Tokyo! Other than that, the suite / seat itself - there's no comparison.

It was unfortunately by far the least enjoyable business class experience I've had.

Very disappointed tbh. If I had to rate what I've been on, they would be as per below:
1. CX A350-900/1000
2. QF A330 / B787
3. AY A350-900
4. SQ A350-900 (Regional)
5. JL B787-8/9

For reference, below were the menus and food.