Citibank Continues to Frustrate

[Rich]

Yes Citibank are annoying, but to be fair to them, your biggest mistake here was having the wrong mobile phone supplier.

You make an interesting defense of Citibank. First of all, I am being fair to them. I followed their advice and updated my phone number to the USA one. To say I made the mistake of having the wrong mobile phone supplier is crazy. I should not have to worry about that just because of Citibank.
I am not sure what you are proposing by using the Aldi pre-paid when overseas. I have good reason to have a local number when overseas for any length of time (e.g. try using Uber without a local number when drivers try to call you). So international roaming generally doesn't work for me. Or do you mean carry a second phone just in case Citibank try to contact me (no thanks)?
As for the Digipass, yes that is a good tip, but given I didn't know about it and it is not publicised, it is hardly my mistake that I didn't ask for it. Regardless, as I said in my original post, they knocked back transactions sporadically and only once tried to contact me at the time of purchase, so I am not sure it would have made any difference aside from that one transaction.

 

[Legoman]

I should not have to worry about that just because of Citibank.

I agree with you, it shouldn't be like this, unforutnately if you want to bank with Citibank (or UBank as well for that matter) it is necessary. You literally cannot do anything at all with UBank without them sending you an SMS for every single thing every step of the way. You can't even change your registered mobile phone number without them sending an SMS code, and when you're out of service range as I found myself once, they have absolutely no backup plan either. Can't receive the SMS? You're stuffed. It's not quite as strict as that with Citibank but it's close enough.

Or do you mean carry a second phone just in case Citibank try to contact me (no thanks)?

A second phone does make life a LOT easier yes. It's not strictly necessary. I could make it work with two sims and one phone, but it's a real pain in the cough as you're constantly swapping sims over in the one phone all the time, but it can be done. I now have two phones. My main phone I use all the time with my Aldimobile pre-paid sim in it (Telstra Wholesale) and a second hand-me-down phone from a relative who upgraded with a proper Telstra Retail pre-paid sim in it. I need the Telstra Retail sim for work when I travel to remote locations and Telstra Retail 4G is the only coverage available, but it also serves an extremely useful purpose when travelling. I know you're saying to yourself that's ridiculous suggesting I need two phones to be able to bank reliably with Citibank if I dare to go overseas. I know it sounds ridiculous and I really wish it wasn't the case too, but it is. Citibank are so ridiculously OTT with their focus on security and the Australian telco scene is so backward as well, that this is just the curse of modern life.

My advice is get the digipass token, get a second GSM phone of some description with minimum 3G antenna and get a Telstra wholesale reseller (like Aldi or Boost mobile) that has international roaming option on it) and you will find life is whole lot easier for you if you wish to continue banking with Citibank.

The digipass is free, a second hand 3G handset can most likely be free too (given that all the early adopters are now in the process of getting their shiny new iPhone XS models) and an Aldimobile long life pre-paid sim will cost you $15 and last for a whole year. Total outlay to solve your problem = $1.25/month. Can you afford $1.25/month?

 

[Rich]

Total outlay to solve your problem = $1.25/month. Can you afford $1.25/month?

It would not have solved my problem. As I said, they only attempted to contact me once out of all the rejected transactions (maybe 20 or so).
Aside from the Digipass (which again may have worked for the one of 20 times), the only other consistent message is to have back up cards (which is good no matter who you bank with). And I would still do that over carrying another phone or swapping SIM cards.
As for the letter I received asking me to prove my residency status based on the fact I had a US number for a couple of weeks, no one else has said they have had the same rubbish, so I guess I am unlucky this time.

 

[theblank]

I have good reason to have a local number when overseas for any length of time (e.g. try using Uber without a local number when drivers try to call you).

You are trying too hard to not accept yuo need your normal phone number overseas. If you choose not to, you are running the gauntlet, always.

Uber drivers message you through the App, they dont need a local number. Phone calls can also be generated through the app - though I am not sure if thats a real call or a voip call, never needed it, and I have used Uber/Lyft/Grab/Go and others alll over the world.

 

[Legoman]

It would not have solved my problem.

Yes it would. Having a roaming enabled mobile phone number that can receive Australian SMS overseas would have meant you could have advised Citibank of your local US sim number and changed the registered mobile you wanted to receive OTP on. Twice. It would have also allowed you to call or SMS the bank back to confirm your purchases before they blocked the card. Having two phones with you would have allowed you to install the US sim in your Australian-only handset which is useless OS because it can't receive SMS and the second phone could have had the roaming Australian number in it instead. That way you could have spoken with Citibank quite easily and done all the OTP SMS checks easily by looking at the screen of one phone while dictating the OTP numbers that come up to the staff member you're speaking to on the other.

I have done this exact thing many times myself. I know it works and is quite painless. It all just requires a bit of pre-planning and thought about what can go wrong before you leave and making sure you have all the tools at your disposal with you to get around whatever might come up. I'm quite used to this having worked remotely for periods whilst still needing to remain contactable for paying bills etc. It's all quite second nature and easy now. A second phone makes life so much easier dealing with Australian banks. On site for work most people have two phones, if not explicitly for the purpose described above then at least for backup purpose in case one is stolen/broken/lost/damaged etc.

 

[Rich]

You are trying too hard to not accept yuo need your normal phone number overseas.

No I am not. I don't need my normal phone number overseas. You might, but I don't. I don't travel overseas for work. So it seems the only thing I need my Australian number for overseas is for Citibank to contact me (though as I stated, they only tried once so it would have been a waste of time). If I am on holiday, I want to tune out. I don't want to receive calls from work, I don't want to receive play date requests for my kids, I don't want hear from the vet, etc. There have been some good suggestions in relation to my post, but most suggestions are about inveniencing myself due to Citibank's ineptitude, which I am not up for.

As for Uber, yes drivers can message though the app, but I have found the majority of the time they call. This was particularly annoying a couple of years ago when Uber did not allow you to change your mobile number, but now you can change your number fortunately.

 

[Rich]

Yes it would. Having a roaming enabled mobile phone number that can receive Australian SMS overseas would have meant you could have advised Citibank of your local US sim number and changed the registered mobile you wanted to receive OTP on. Twice. It would have also allowed you to call or SMS the bank back to confirm your purchases before they blocked the card.

As I have stated many times, on all but one occasion after I had updated my phone number (which was after a day overseas) Citibank did not attempt to contact me. So I am not sure why you think having my Australian number would have been different.

In relation to overseas travel, Citibank's website states: "In the event any of your transactions are detected as irregular activity we will endeavour to contact you as soon as possible via text or voice call using the mobile number we have on file to discuss the situation....To minimise any inconvenience, it is important that you ensure we have your correct mobile number that you will be using whilst overseas". I followed their instructions. They mostly didn't contact me. But at least they never blocked the card outright.

 

[Legoman]

As I have stated many times, on all but one occasion after I had updated my phone number (which was after a day overseas) Citibank did not attempt to contact me. So I am not sure why you think having my Australian number would have been different.

Let's not muck about, let's just see EXACTLY what you did say quoted word for word shall we?
"At first I did not update my number as it wanted to send a OTP (One Time PIN) to my mobile in order to update details. Of course the mobile number was Australian and I couldn't receive the OTP. However pretty quickly my card was occasionally declined at merchants and Citibank ATMs, so I wanted to sort it"

I maintain quite clearly my recommendation that if you had roaming active on your usual Australian number such as with a very cheap Aldimobile pre-paid service costing as little as $1.25/month to maintain, then all of this hassle would have been avoided in the first place. If you can't see that and accept it, then you're not as the first line of your first post says and asking for advice, you're trolling for an argument. So which is it?

 

[Rich]

Let's not muck about, let's just see EXACTLY what you did say quoted word for word shall we?

Just because we disagree it doesn't mean that I am trolling for an argument and I assume it doesn't mean you are either.
Yes I asked for advice, but not all advice will suit everyone and carrying a second phone doesn't for me, but it might if I was frequently overseas.
Yes as I stated, I could not change the number initially but after a day I could by going in to a Citibank branch and doing it over the phone. After this point I continued to be declined, including at Citibank ATMs but this was still a minority of the time.
Your recommendation is all well and good, but it does not provide any evidence that it would have prevented the problem. Why? Because when I did provide them with a correct number as per their recommendation, they (almost always) didn't use it. There is nothing you have said that tells me they would have if I was with Aldimobile. If you expect me to accept your point, you need to explain it. What am I not explaining properly in relation to the fact that Citibank most did not try to contact me when they had the correct details (which was 90% of the trip)?

 

[Legoman]

No I am not. I don't need my normal phone number overseas.

Fair enough, that's true. You don't NEED to, no. I agree. But if you choose not to, then you accept the resulting inconvenience and you relinquish all rights to complain about it afterwards in my opinion. It's analogous to travelling to the USA without travel insurance. You don't need travel insurance. No one is going to stop you doing that if you want to, but when you get a cold over there and need a prescription to buy antibiotics and then cop a $950 bill for that service because you don't have insurance, then don't come in here whinging about the unfairness of it all and the incompetance of the US profit motivated medical system.

Citibank have a system. It's clear how it works. There are no work arounds, no wiggle room and no negotiating with them. There are no discretions, no dispensations and no sympathy with Citibank. They do things Citibank's way or no way at all. You accepted that fact when you signed up with them. The only way to deal with Citibank being as rigid and inept as they are is to take responsibility for yourself and give yourself every possible fighting chance to work with Citibank according to Citibank's rules. They are not going to bend for you. Not even a little bit. Their systems are set in 1,000 year old concrete and they are not moving for anyone or anything.

You can do two things:
1) You can take the free advice offered in here such as getting yourself a decent sim card with international roaming as an available option, carry a second phone + get the standalone Digipass RSA token generator or…
2) You can take your business to another bank who are more customer focused, flexible and sympathetic to you when you haven't anticipated properly everything that can go wrong when you're overseas.

Those are your options. Pick one.

 

[Rich]

Chill out Legoman.

Yes I will take advice on board, but not all of it will be suitable and it is a shame you won't or can't explain why yours would work considering my experience that suggests it wouldn't or wouldn't have on this occasion.

The Digipass token is good advice and the ING alternative is worth considering, so the thead is not for nothing.

Based on the constructive comments, the only other option is to continue with back up cards, which anyone would surely do whoever they bank with and it is certainly what I do (so no, I am not like someone travelling to the US without health insurance).

 

[theblank]

No I am not. I don't need my normal phone number overseas.

Well you just found out the inconvenience of not haviing it, its your choice.

You might, but I don't. I don't travel overseas for work.

I dont travel overseas for work either, however I have learned to appreciate that having my normal australian number available while travelling overseas varies somewhere between crucial and insignifcant, depending on what circumstance arises.

So it seems the only thing I need my Australian number for overseas is for Citibank to contact me

You only find out when you need the number, when you need it. There are a lot of services that require the sending of an OTP, most you wouldnt think about for travelling, but if the cough hits the fan, anything could come up.

 

[Legoman]

You only find out when you need the number, when you need it. There are a lot of services that require the sending of an OTP, most you wouldnt think about for travelling, but if the cough hits the fan, anything could come up.

UBank is another good example. Even more inflexible than Citibank (if that's even possible). UBank also have a Visa Debit card like the ING one that allows fee-free intenational ATM use (just for relevancy in this thread), but you absolutely will not be able to get them to do ANYTHING for you at all if you're overseas and your phone won't receive international SMS.

Also, one of the terms & conditions of opening a UBank account is that you must register an Australian mobile number for them to send their SMS codes to. TravelSIMs or international SIM cards that start with anything other than +61 are not acceptable. So if you feel like using UBank and you might wanna go overseas and access the bank while there, then a roaming enabled mobile number is non-negotiable.

Slag off about how inept Citibank are as much as you wish, but they will let you register an international SIM number for their OTP thing and they will send SMS to that international number for free. UBank (part of NAB) won't. Citibank will provide you free-of-charge with a separate battery -powered standalone RSA generator token you can use instead of a mobile phone if preferred. UBank insist you have an Australian mobile phone. If you're a luddite who doesn't use mobile phones, then sucked in you can't bank with UBank. Citibank will call you back for free from anywhere in the world to save you the phone call costs. UBank will not.

Suddenly Citibank actually doesn't look all that bad afterall.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Don't leave home without your Australian phone number. Enable roaming, and you will be fine.

I don't think that this is reasonable advice.

Citibank needs to do something different as many will travel without a phone or without roaming enabled.

I've sworn off Citibank for life because of previous problems with them and can see no reason to change that approach.

 

[get me outta here]

The cc I use o/s allows me to advise that the ph will not accept an OTP till I return.

 

[Legoman]

Citibank needs to do something different as many will travel without a phone or without roaming enabled.

Think about that statement for a second. It's 2018. Mobile phones have been around for ~30 years or so in a form that most can afford. Really good mobile phones that do much more than just make phone calls have been around for more than 10 years. Every aspect of modern life is increasing dependent upon & skewed towards mobile phone use such that it's getting harder + harder everyday to do even just the simple things in life without one. The only people I can think of who would not travel with a mobile phone at all are the Amish, dead people in coffins being repatriated and perhaps children under 6 years of age. A greater number would try it without global roaming enabled, but in general they will only try this once before realising it's not really practical and ed up doing the investigation to get it at an affordable price when they get back home again.

I've sworn off Citibank for life because of previous problems with them and can see no reason to change that approach.

That's fair enough and good on you for making that decision. There's a price to pay for everything in life including convenience and customer support. You have decided the price for suffering Citibank's rigid and outdated banking system is too high for you to bear, so you have gone with another option that suits you better. That is a mature way of dealing with the agony that is banking with Citibank.

 

[Lynda2475]

A bit off topic, but if you dont want to carry two phones, invest in dual sim phone, this allows you to keep your local Aus sim with roaming enabled (costs nothing extra if you only use it to receive SMS) and put travel/local sim in the other slot. Popular phones like the Samsung Galaxy S8/S9/S9Note are all available in dual sim models (usually cheaper to buy than the single sim ones you buy through the telcos). When making a call/sending a sms/ using mobile data you choose to use line 1 (your Aus sim) or line 2 (your foreign sim).

When I travel I always roam with my local number in my phone (with data turned off), but remove voice mail diversions, dont answer or make any calls, but receive any necessary sms. I then buy a local sim and put this in my 4G tablet, which i use for internet, I can make a call from the tablet if needed (just need to plug in headphones) or tether my [phone to the tablet if I have to use banking app from my phone. Means I didnt miss any of citibanks sms.

I used Citibank card in Singapore, UK, Spain, Portugal and Croatia recently without any issues. But i was sure to launch the app in each country first, (so it may have detetcted I was overseas) to check balance before using for a purchase or in the ATM. I also had Macqaurie Bank card as a back-up - the Macquarie Bank app was smart enough to welcome me to each country when I logged in from a new one - pretty smart.

It would be great if you could advsie travel dates via the app or website like you can with credit cards, but i find it works well enough for the times when Im travelling. But I always have a Macquarie Bank debit card (also fee free) and my regular ATM card (fee charging) and a few credit cards as back-ups.

 

[theblank]

I don't think that this is reasonable advice.

Citibank needs to do something different as many will travel without a phone or without roaming enabled.

Citibank isnt alone there , there is a gazillion services that would require the use of a phone, as pointed out multiple times.
Inlcuding the message just above yours

Travel without your phone and you will experience pain, eventually. Good luck.

 

[Cryptarcadian]

Wow, there are certainly some rigid views in this thread.

I was dismissed earlier upthread for suggesting this, but let me just point out more explicitly... despite the repeated suggestions to never travel without your phone (which actually sounds like never travelling without your phone number and SIM), Australian carriers do not have full roaming provisions in all countries, especially for pre-paid and MVNO services (e.g. neither Aldi operating on the Telstra wholesale network, Boost operating on Telstra retail network, nor Telstra pre-paid itself, can roam in many countries that Telstra post-paid can). Relying on SMS via roaming is not a panacea.

 

[odysseus]

Think about that statement for a second. It's 2018. Mobile phones have been around for ~30 years or so in a form that most can afford. Really good mobile phones that do much more than just make phone calls have been around for more than 10 years. Every aspect of modern life is increasing dependent upon & skewed towards mobile phone use such that it's getting harder + harder everyday to do even just the simple things in life without one. The only people I can think of who would not travel with a mobile phone at all are the Amish, dead people in coffins being repatriated and perhaps children under 6 years of age. A greater number would try it without global roaming enabled, but in general they will only try this once before realising it's not really practical and ed up doing the investigation to get it at an affordable price when they get back home again.

I'm just back from 3 weeks in the US and Asia. Had my phone but was wifi only whole trip as needed occasionally - no local SIM, no roaming.

Worked very "practically" - including using Uber and Lyft as desired.

Some seem to have their blinkers on and seem to think there's only one way to do things... a bit like Citibank in that regard.