Coffee Machines

[Princess Fiona]

Sounds more like Nespresso is only one third of a shot...

I drink Kazaar, 12/10 strength. Superb and definitely only needs 1 pod.

 

[Renato1]

Holy be-jeevus Renato

View attachment 62759

That is a seriously good post - and it only took you 427 tries to get a good one!!!

Thanks, though I should have added a qualification - I am not a proper coffee expert. To be that, I'd have to own at least one, preferably two, dual-boiler coffee machines. All my machines are thermoblock machines, which means they use the same heating block for making coffee and steaming milk - which means they can never achieve the ideal pressure/time graph to deliver the perfect coffee shot.

Though I did have a Krupps Orchestro automatic coffee machine which had made a modification to the thermoblock, such that it delivered a closer approximation to the characteristics one gets from a dual boiler unit. It gave me the best coffee of all my machines, but after I repaired it three times, and the next repair was going to cost more than the machine had cost me, I threw it in the bin. Then I bought the Saeco Minuto rather than say, the superb Breville BS900 Dual boiler machine, because I knew I'd rather push one button than going through the rigmarole of grinding beans and making a manual coffee.

That said, one of my friends who does own a $3000 dual boiler machine, was pretty impressed with the shots from my MAP Luna.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Great overview Renato1.
I make judgements...I know, but I cannot help it...of others who drink dishwater instead of coffee, might as well be drinking herbal tea for the taste.

You aren't wrong.

Though manufacturers seem to have divined the general taste for coffee in Australia. For example, I find Australian Nescafe instant coffee akin to drinking muddy water. But when in Italy, I buy Nescafe Gran Aroma instant coffee - it is rich and strong - and I actually drink it more often than the espresso's from the Delonghi manual machine, that we keep over there.

Whenever manufacturers have launched richer and stronger instant coffees over here - for example, Riva - the brand inevitably wind up failing and being removed from the shelves.
Regards,
Renato

 

[prozac]

You aren't wrong.
...
Whenever manufacturers have launched richer and stronger instant coffees over here - for example, Riva - the brand inevitably wind up failing and being removed from the shelves.
Regards,
Renato

Ah yes, who could forget Rhonda Burchmore. Well the public did and their campaigns failed.

This week I have been to a local coffee house I have not frequented in a while, twice. Each time the coffee, long black, has been mid strength and luke warm. This place is a recognised importer, and supplier of roasted coffee to the trade. I would expect better. Are they simply accommodating the lowest denominator?

 

[Renato1]

Ah yes, who could forget Rhonda Burchmore. Well the public did and their campaigns failed.

This week I have been to a local coffee house I have not frequented in a while, twice. Each time the coffee, long black, has been mid strength and luke warm. This place is a recognised importer, and supplier of roasted coffee to the trade. I would expect better. Are they simply accommodating the lowest denominator?

That doesn't happen often in Melbourne at all.

Unless it's a general thing in Sydney - I'd suspect a tough employer with a high staff turnover, who he or she isn't training properly. I wouldn't think he'd survive long in Melbourne.

The only time we have the same sort of problems as you describe, is when we travel around in northern Italy ordering our cappuccinos. In middle Italy (Rome, Naples, Salerno and Amalfi Coast) their cappuccinos tend to be on par with what we get in Melbourne.
Regards,
Renato

 

[marki]

You reminded me coffee machines in Berlin ......ouch the water is hard. They get blocked literally after the 5th coffee. Best is to leave the vinegar in overnight or use proprietary descaling tablets or have a descaling water system installed.

 

[Ausbt]

Onto my second Nespresso machine now and it is an improvement on the first. I drink two pods at a time, black and unsweetend of course.

My gripe concerns 'baristas' (usually at chains) who only put single-shots in 'small' long blacks. Am I wrong or are they? As far as I'm concerned a 'proper' long black is a standard size cup with two shots. I'm really sick of these useless cafes who think "oh, there is only one shot in a small latte so there must be only one shot in a long black". It has led me to 'interview' the 'barista' before purchase, and if they pull that "we can add an extra shot for you" cough I say no thanks and walk, on principal. One country NSW cafe had the nerve to want to charge a whole extra dollar for that second shot. See ya!

 

[prozac]

I don't know how good this might be but it might appeal to a desperate AFFer on a road trip, out in the field, on the farm or out fishing. Makita coffee machine powered by 18V power tool battery.
If it catches on it my tradies might actually remain onsite instead of taking off on a coffee run every so often. Very annoying when you are trying to keep track of their hours.
$89 today at Sydney Tools

What a great fathers day gift.

 

[albatross710]

Onto my second Nespresso machine now and it is an improvement on the first. I drink two pods at a time, black and unsweetend of course.

My gripe concerns 'baristas' (usually at chains) who only put single-shots in 'small' long blacks. Am I wrong or are they? As far as I'm concerned a 'proper' long black is a standard size cup with two shots. I'm really sick of these useless cafes who think "oh, there is only one shot in a small latte so there must be only one shot in a long black". It has led me to 'interview' the 'barista' before purchase, and if they pull that "we can add an extra shot for you" cough I say no thanks and walk, on principal. One country NSW cafe had the nerve to want to charge a whole extra dollar for that second shot. See ya!

Definition of what is 'proper' is always open to interpretation. Having written one book on coffee from 15 years of ongoing research, the starting point for coffee's is as follows:

a) single shot = 30ml of water through 7 grams of ground coffee, 20 seconds pour time.

b) long black (Ver 1) = 170mls of water through 7 grams of ground coffee.

c) long black (Ver 2) = 30mls shot ( as per a) plus 140mls hot water.

d) cappuccino = one third milk, one third coffee, one third froth.

From these basic definitions everyone starts to expand to their requirements. Many places are putting 14-16gm shots now, better tasting to the consumer, but is really a way for people to get away with not being able to do the job right in the first place.

Start increasing to mug size etc etc and how to all of these amounts scale. Everything is open to people making choices n your behalf. The larger drinks are often just coffee flavoured milk.

The more water that passes through the coffee puck, the more bitterness and tannins will be extracted over the pour.

None of this holds for the pods and capsules which use a few shortcuts to make things look good. In one testing we did where we tested Nespresso side by side with other coffee methods, no one ever prefered the Nespresso. Given Nespresso without an alternative people accepted it.

I like this thread.

Alby

 

[Steady]

a) single shot = 30ml of water through 7 grams of ground coffee, 20 seconds pour time.

I adjust my grind to achieve this using beans with a 'roasted on' date that is about 10-20 days beforehand and then good coffee just happens.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I adjust my grind to achieve this using beans with a 'roasted on' date that is about 10-20 days beforehand and then good coffee just happens.

.....as long as the water is also at the correct temperature (ie which is why filters, coffee pots etc never make as good a coffee).

The pressure guage on my machine certaianly helps in more quickly adjusting my grind (different beans need different grinds) to maximise crema and a good tasting coffee.

 

[Renato1]

d) cappuccino = one third milk, one third coffee, one third froth.

Alby

I reside in northern Italy a lot during vacations, where a cappuccino in lots of places (Venice, Verona etc) is
= one third coffee, two thirds froth.

I was getting so frustrated that one day, when I got cappuccinos in Vicenza that did contain one third milk, I went in and congratulated the barista who had made them. He thanked me, saying that most other cafes use the two thirds froth formula to save on milk.

I hate to admit it, but cafes in more southerly parts of Italy, like around Naples and the Amalfi Coast, all know how to make a decent cappuccino like we are used to in Australia, in very sharp contrast to the pathetic efforts often found in parts of northern Italy.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

My gripe concerns 'baristas' (usually at chains) who only put single-shots in 'small' long blacks. Am I wrong or are they? As far as I'm concerned a 'proper' long black is a standard size cup with two shots.

I can only go on what the instructions of my machines say, but they all indicate that a long black is a single shot. One of my automatic machines has a setting for double espresso, which does two shots sequentially the way that you like.
Regards,
Renato

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I reside in northern Italy a lot during vacations, where a cappuccino in lots of places (Venice, Verona etc) is
= one third coffee, two thirds froth.

I was getting so frustrated that one day, when I got cappuccinos in Vicenza that did contain one third milk, I went in and congratulated the barista who had made them. He thanked me, saying that most other cafes use the two thirds froth formula to save on milk.

I hate to admit it, but cafes in more southerly parts of Italy, like around Naples and the Amalfi Coast, all know how to make a decent cappuccino like we are used to in Australia, in very sharp contrast to the pathetic efforts often found in parts of northern Italy.
Regards,
Renato

On my last trip to Italy I was on a one day cycling wine tour near Florence. While most on the tour lunched with themselves my wife, daughter and I instead lunched with our two guides to enjoy their company and insights.

He was originally from Naples, but worked elsewhere due to the lack of work in Naples. As it turned out he was a barista and had worked as a barista in Melbourne as well as Italy. On hearing this I asked if about the coffee as I had presumed that coffee would be good in Italy, but my experience on that trip was that it was often not.

He agreed that the coffee was normally better in Melbourne. But he also explained that the price per cup was normally much higher in Melbourne and that customers in Melbourne were willing to pay that for a good coffee which the barista could then take the time to make properly. Whereas in Italy the concentration was more on getting the coffee out quickly and at a much cheaper price. Hence the coffee was not as good for this reason. In Italy many coffees are for quick shots drunk while standing up. In Melbourne more more coffees are drunk slowly and where the drinker lingers.

 

[Renato1]

On my last trip to Italy I was on a one day cycling wine tour near Florence. While most on the tour lunched with themselves my wife, daughter and I instead lunched with our two guides to enjoy their company and insights.

He was originally from Naples, but worked elsewhere due to the lack of work in Naples. As it turned out he was a barista and had worked as a barista in Melbourne as well as Italy. On hearing this I asked if about the coffee as I had presumed that coffee would be good in Italy, but my experience on that trip was that it was often not.

He agreed that the coffee was normally better in Melbourne. But he also explained that the price per cup was normally much higher in Melbourne and that customers in Melbourne were willing to pay that for a good coffee which the barista could then take the time to make properly. Whereas in Italy the concentration was more on getting the coffee out quickly and at a much cheaper price. Hence the coffee was not as good for this reason. In Italy many coffees are for quick shots drunk while standing up. In Melbourne more more coffees are drunk slowly and where the drinker lingers.

Thanks for sharing that interesting information. Though I think your barista friend was being far too generous to the northern Italians (of which I am sort of one).
The counter I'd put to his reasoning comes from our experiences over there.
A. In our recent trip to Italy we spent for 8 days visiting Naples, Maiori, Amalfi, Positano, Sorrento, Pompeii, Capri, Anacapri, Salerno and having one or more cappuccinos at each location. With the exception of Capri, these are all much poorer areas than one typically finds in nothern Italy. Yet I was amazed - every single cappuccino was akin to the Australian ones.
B. In northern Italy, where the cappuccinos are a hit and miss affair, they are most likely to be of the pure froth variety in the expensive tourist centres where one pays top Euro for them.
C. Same story in Croatia - good cappuccinos everywhere, except for in the centre of Dubrovnik.

Contrary to popular opinion, Italians don't have a good recent history with coffee. After my dad migrated here, for decades he would send parcels of coffee beans back home to his mother. After 18 years, my mother was wondering what the point of this exercise was - the war was over, surely they had coffee in Italy now? And our whole family went back there for a visit in 1975 - and we took coffee beans.

When we tried the local coffee, our opinion was that it was chickory-laced floor sweepings. It was terrible. My grandmother was living with and doing house chores for my uncle, who was a priest. It transpired that after receiving the beans from Australia, she was blending them with the local rubbish, half and half, so that the beans would go further. And when Bishops and the like would drop by, she would make them a coffee from the blend. Most said that it was the best coffee that they had ever drunk.
Regards,
Renato

 

[medhead]

The discussion of coffee weight in nespresso pods got me wondering. Our machine has 3 settings for volume of coffee, the middle being about 30ml. The Nespresso person said the 2 small settings should be used with standard pods, and the big setting only with the "Lungo" pods.

IIRC someone mentioned in thread the nespresso pods have 5g of coffee. Does that include the Lungo pods? Or might they have more coffee if those a designed for higher volume settings on the machines?

 

[Renato1]

The discussion of coffee weight in nespresso pods got me wondering. Our machine has 3 settings for volume of coffee, the middle being about 30ml. The Nespresso person said the 2 small settings should be used with standard pods, and the big setting only with the "Lungo" pods.

IIRC someone mentioned in thread the nespresso pods have 5g of coffee. Does that include the Lungo pods? Or might they have more coffee if those a designed for higher volume settings on the machines?

I've experimented with the Youtube instructions for refilling pods, and have pulled apart Nespresso and MAP pods. There just isn't enough room in the Nespresso pods to add more coffee - and the experiment was a waste of time, unless one likes really weak coffee.

As I understand it, the pods are meant for making a standard 30ml shot of coffee. If one makes a 100ml cup from the pod, one will be deteriorating the quality of the coffee, as what comes out from the subsequent 70mls will be weaker, and can become quite bitter. This becomes more obvious if one makes say a 170ml cup from a pod. That extra bitterness I used to more easily see with my old lower-powered MAP Perfecto machine, where the coffee from some pods tasted pretty terrible at 100ml, but were fine at 30ml.

The Lungo pods are made from coffee types that don't have that bitterness aspect to them, or that don't have it as noticeable.

That said, I have a hard time tasting the poorer quality of coffee from using most non-Lungo pods to make 100ml - though a purist will be horrified with my using them that way.
Regards.
Renato

 

[Deleted member]

I am not as finicky about coffee machines per se. But I have found that my two Nespresso ( home and business) machines deliver a coffee that I enjoy and are capable of delivering a coffee Mrs GPH enjoys. And we are both at opposite ends of the taste and strength spectrum.
That's versatility IMHO.

 

[medhead]

I've experimented with the Youtube instructions for refilling pods, and have pulled apart Nespresso and MAP pods. There just isn't enough room in the Nespresso pods to add more coffee - and the experiment was a waste of time, unless one likes really weak coffee.

As I understand it, the pods are meant for making a standard 30ml shot of coffee. If one makes a 100ml cup from the pod, one will be deteriorating the quality of the coffee, as what comes out from the subsequent 70mls will be weaker, and can become quite bitter. This becomes more obvious if one makes say a 170ml cup from a pod. That extra bitterness I used to more easily see with my old lower-powered MAP Perfecto machine, where the coffee from some pods tasted pretty terrible at 100ml, but were fine at 30ml.

The Lungo pods are made from coffee types that don't have that bitterness aspect to them, or that don't have it as noticeable.

That said, I have a hard time tasting the poorer quality of coffee from using most non-Lungo pods to make 100ml - though a purist will be horrified with my using them that way.
Regards.
Renato

Thanks.
I was wondering what the difference could be for the lungo. We're very careful to be strict on the volume versus pod type factor.

 

[Buzzard]

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