Compensation scheme coming to Australia?

[jb747]

Yes, of course the airlines should be compensated by the passengers who didn’t fly on their cancelled flight.

 

[Mwenenzi]

More passenger rights in the USA. Presumably applies to all airlines operating in the USA including QF. With QF already subject to the UK 261 and EU 261 this will add to the case for change in Australia but don't hold your breath.

https://loyaltylobby.com/2024/04/25/us-strengthen-consumer-protection-in-air-travel-forced-refunds-for-services-no-tendered-ban-on-junk-fees/

The US govt link-->https://www.transportation.gov/brie...inal-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline
As opposed to a bloggers opinion

The rules seem not to have EU extraordinary exceptions. Say with a massive storm or similar the airlines would still need to pay out. Airfares could rise the cover that. But cancelling-refund after 3hr could be a windfall for the airlines. After a storm(3hr) airlines refund all tickets, as required. How the refund would work on multi segment ticket is unknown. The airlines could then raise fares 100% 200% 500% in the recovery, instead putting them on the next available flight, with no extra cost from the passenger.

The proposed rules are very USA domestic airline/flight centric. No consideration of how the international air travel market operates. And that many 1000's of people travelling by air in USA do not directly pay a USA airline
.

 

[dajop]

The proposed rules are very USA domestic airline/flight centric.

Of course it is. They make up the lions share of the concerns of the travelling public in the US. And on the flopside, how many foreign airlines bribe politicians in the US have their own PAC's to influence lawmakers?

 

[elanshin]

I thought it worked as - if a customer wants a refund, the airline has to give it when delay occurs and not in some bs flight credit or jump through 100 hoops manner.

If the customer takes the alternative flight at 3hr 10 mins they can't claim the refund.

It's not like EU261 at all where you get compensated for the delay.

Post automatically merged: Apr 26, 2024

The US govt link-->https://www.transportation.gov/brie...inal-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline
As opposed to a bloggers opinion

The rules seem not to have EU extraordinary exceptions. Say with a massive storm or similar the airlines would still need to pay out. Airfares could rise the cover that. But cancelling-refund after 3hr could be a windfall for the airlines. After a storm(3hr) airlines refund all tickets, as required. How the refund would work on multi segment ticket is unknown. The airlines could then raise fares 100% 200% 500% in the recovery, instead putting them on the next available flight, with no extra cost from the passenger.

The proposed rules are very USA domestic airline/flight centric. No consideration of how the international air travel market operates. And that many 1000's of people travelling by air in USA do not directly pay a USA airline
.

I dont think the airline gets to auto cancel and refund the tickets, it's still on the passenger not to accept the alternative and then get refunded.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Getting off topic for AU compensation
The US govt link states

Automatic: Airlines must automatically issue refunds without passengers having to explicitly request them or jump through hoops.

Passenger "claim" or "accept alternative flight" is not written in the text.
Can't see any airline refunding and then transporting a passenger for nothing. Especially if the delay is not in the airlines control.

 

[TheRealTMA]

One often has to shake one’s head at things done in the good old US of A, but on consumer rights they are often far quicker to look after the consumer than we are.

Interesting, https://www.transportation.gov/brie...inal-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline

also addresses the absurdity of family seating.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

elasthin is on the money i think. The automatic and prompt refund is ‘when requested’.The explanatory notes accompanying the final rule outline that when a passenger is entitled to, and requests a refund, it should be automatic. It applies when a passenger finds the alternatives offered to be unacceptable, and wants the refund instead.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/latest-news

and the final rule: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2024-04/Final Rule Refunds and Other Consumer Protections (2105-AF04)_0.pdf

My bolding:

The U.S. Department of Transportation (Department or DOT) is requiring automatic refunds to consumers when a U.S. air carrier or a foreign air carrier cancels or makes a significant change to a scheduled flight to, from, or within the UnitedStates and the consumer is not offered or rejects alternative transportation and travel credits, vouchers, or other compensation. These automatic refunds must be provided promptly, i.e., within 7 business days for credit card payments and within 20 calendar days for other forms of payment.​

 

[tdimdad]

These automatic refunds must be provided promptly, i.e., within 7 business days for credit card payments and within 20 calendar days for other forms of payment.

QF would be in knots with the 7-day timeline. It takes them >7 days to even get to your refund request, then four weeks to pass it to accounts payable, and then another two weeks to pay out something.

Perhaps I ought to put my process improvement hat on and sell myself to Mascot for a 6-month gig to optimise their refund process...

 

[Ric]

My QR flight on Aug 18th from CPH to DOH was delayed for about 1 hr 30 mins but that caused me to miss my connection on my connecting QR flight DOH to MNL for about 8 hrs.

On arrival at DOH, we were handed a leaflet apologizing for the delay and missing the connecting flight to Mnl. Information was given that we were rebooked on the next flight to MNL which was about 8 - 9 hrs later. Instructions were also given on how to claim compensation under EU261 regulations.

I wrote in to claim on Aug 25th and received an automated response with a case number almost immediately. On Aug 27th, I receive an email again apologizing and was offered 600Euros as compensation. Clear instructions were given on what more to submit including a release and discharge form.

I submitted what was asked on the email on Aug 28th.
600Euros went into my bank on Sept 3rd!! Howzat for recovery by Qatar!!??

Hopefully the compensation scheme can "encourage" speedy compensation/refunds etc like how Qatar does it.

 

[SydneySwan]

My QR flight on Aug 18th from CPH to DOH was delayed for about 1 hr 30 mins but that caused me to miss my connection on my connecting QR flight DOH to MNL for about 8 hrs.

On arrival at DOH, we were handed a leaflet apologizing for the delay and missing the connecting flight to Mnl. Information was given that we were rebooked on the next flight to MNL which was about 8 - 9 hrs later. Instructions were also given on how to claim compensation under EU261 regulations.

I wrote in to claim on Aug 25th and received an automated response with a case number almost immediately. On Aug 27th, I receive an email again apologizing and was offered 600Euros as compensation. Clear instructions were given on what more to submit including a release and discharge form.

I submitted what was asked on the email on Aug 28th.
600Euros went into my bank on Sept 3rd!! Howzat for recovery by Qatar!!??

Hopefully the compensation scheme can "encourage" speedy compensation/refunds etc like how Qatar does it.

This is a textbook example of how the EU261 scheme should work. Well done to Qatar.

 

[CMA222]

This might become interesting for QF -

What new US refund rules for flight disruptions mean for Qantas

Tough new consumer protection laws cover all flights to and from the USA.

www.executivetraveller.com

 

[Brissy1]

This might become interesting for QF -

What new US refund rules for flight disruptions mean for Qantas

Tough new consumer protection laws cover all flights to and from the USA.

www.executivetraveller.com

"The new rules cover all airlines flying to and from the USA, as well as passengers in transit through the US to other destinations..."
So maybe get more protection if flying to UK, go via USA.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This might become interesting for QF -

What new US refund rules for flight disruptions mean for Qantas

Tough new consumer protection laws cover all flights to and from the USA.

www.executivetraveller.com

Not sure it will make any difference to QF? As the article says, QF already offer the option to refund for significant changes. On the day of departure, unlikely someone in the main cabin is going to cancel and book another airline, given walk-up fare prices. Neither will passengers on upgrades or award seats. Or discount business class tickets.

Probably leaves a very small field of pax. And if they have been paying top dollar, and have status, the airline will probably have re-routed them already!

And that aside, do the new rules determine how refunds are going to be given? If you cancel in the day, but have already flown from AU to US for example? Will your refund be 50%, or will they calculate the one way fare and refund the difference? Again, not much use to anyone.

I think this will largely affect US and LCC that might have been tempted to drag out refunds or offer flight credits.

 

[NM]

Not sure it will make any difference to QF? As the article says, QF already offer the option to refund for significant changes. On the day of departure, unlikely someone in the main cabin is going to cancel and book another airline, given walk-up fare prices.

But it does put controls and limits around how and when refunds for service disruptions and non-delivered services must be delivered. No more waiting months and making 10+ phone calls to get your refund or compensation payment. That is itself is likely a positive outcome for passengers.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But it does put controls and limits around how and when refunds for service disruptions and non-delivered services must be delivered. No more waiting months and making 10+ phone calls to get your refund or compensation payment. That is itself is likely a positive outcome for passengers.

True, but how often will that actually get used, in reality? If most of the lax have originated in Australia, a refund of the return leg is going to be rarely invoked.

QF doesn’t charge bag fees for instance, and has very few ancillary services, except maybe for a few people who still need to pay to select seats, or those at exit rows.

There may be some impact for JQ services to HNL?

 

[serfty]

Not sure it will make any difference to QF? As the article says, QF already offer the option to refund for significant changes. On the day of departure, unlikely someone in the main cabin is going to cancel and book another airline, given walk-up fare prices. Neither will passengers on upgrades or award seats. Or discount business class tickets.

The regulation defines what a significant change is. It would not be subject to the vagaries of what Qantas or any other affected carrier may state.

 

[serfty]

A bit more:

The definition of "significant delay" is at least three hours for domestic flights and six hours for international flights.

The definition of "significantly changed flight" is as follows:

• a cancelled flight

• A change of more than 6 hours in the departure or arrival from the original time when a customer purchased their tickets

• Segments are added to a journey

• departure airport changes from that originally booked

• Passengers get downgraded to a lower cabin

(airlines were previously able to set their own thresholds).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The regulation defines what a significant change is. It would not be subject to the vagaries of what Qantas or any other affected carrier may state.

Agree, but i’m not sure that adds anything to current ACL?

if departing AU it may lead to a quicker refund. On day of departure will hardly be practical to cancel and invoke the protections. And if already in the US, again equally impractical to cancel your booking after you’ve already flown one way.

I’d probably argue that ACL is stronger. A schedule change of less than 6 hours for international may be grounds for a refund under ACL.

 

[serfty]

I’d probably argue that ACL is stronger. A schedule change of less than 6 hours for international may be grounds for a refund under ACL.

But, there should be be no need to invoke ACL with the auto refund.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But, there should be be no need to invoke ACL with the auto refund.

Hopefully you’ll still have to ring up or make some other contact to request the refund. These new provisions might be confusing if people think they are their only remedies, rather than ACL.

I’ve never had an issue getting a refund from Qantas or VA under ACL. QF has automatically processed them, but VA came through after a call to the contact centre.

A potential problem is if a passenger doesn’t ’accept’ new arrangements in time, they could find a refund in their bank rather than still having a plane ticket! (which is why I would hope the refunds aren’t truly automatic, but require the passenger to confirm or not)