Cruising choices with an active Pandemic

[moa999]

Gladys gift. That ship must have been rife. Now the crew

The stuff up was NSW Health letting them off without waiting for the test results.
Wouldn't have changed the number of people getting infected on board.
And I don't think weve heard of any confirmed cases of transmission from those people

That was Princess/CCL being greedy. All cruises should have been stopped after the Diamond Princess

The crew issue is a global problem
Hundreds of ships moored off Miami and the Caribbean.
Oasis of the Seas reportedly now has 50+ cases in the crew. They'd been letting them all mix freely on board

 

[Pushka]

The stuff up was NSW Health letting them off without waiting for the test results.
Wouldn't have changed the number of people getting infected on board.
And I don't think weve heard of any confirmed cases of transmission from those people

That was Princess/CCL being greedy. All cruises should have been stopped after the Diamond Princess

It wasn't just Princess though as I don't think anyone cancelled at that point. Except for Viking and maybe a couple of others, cruiselines are cancelling just a month out. I agree, cruiselines are handling this appallingly for customers in a bid to shore up their company. Can't blame them I guess, for some reason they presumed, maybe like SARS, this was simply an Asian problem. They should have realised their error when Italy became rampant.

NSW Health - I guess I hold the Premier accountable for stuff ups under their lead.

 

[get me outta here]

Just read a longish article on both sides of the debacle and the rules that allowed the docking. Including this :

"Medical judgements on board the Ruby Princess — which might or might not be prejudicial to the business — are in the hands of doctors employed by Carnival. Carnival’s chief medical officer, Dr Grant Tarling, is at the same time senior vice president of the multibillion-dollar Carnival Corporation, which is listed on the US and UK stock exchanges".

Ruby Princess fiasco: how inadequate rules helped fuel a pandemic

The Ruby Princess is Australia's single-biggest source of coronavirus infections. Inq examines the rules that allowed it to dock in Sydney.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[Pushka]

Just read a longish article on both sides of the debacle and the rules that allowed the docking. Including this :

"Medical judgements on board the Ruby Princess — which might or might not be prejudicial to the business — are in the hands of doctors employed by Carnival. Carnival’s chief medical officer, Dr Grant Tarling, is at the same time senior vice president of the multibillion-dollar Carnival Corporation, which is listed on the US and UK stock exchanges".

Ruby Princess fiasco: how inadequate rules helped fuel a pandemic

The Ruby Princess is Australia's single-biggest source of coronavirus infections. Inq examines the rules that allowed it to dock in Sydney.

www.crikey.com.au

That article is the first one to advise of the lady being taken off the ship at 2.30am. Passengers only speak of the ship being cleared for disembarkation at 6.30am, maybe 7am. Sadly she later died. It begs the question of responsibility. That departure of the very ill lady would have been known to all - the cruise line, the Port Authorities and NSW Health. So why on earth were people allowed to simply walk off?

 

[woodyren]

First hand report .

We were on the Voyager of the Seas cruise that left Sydney on March 7th and arrived back on March 18th.

We were denied entry to a few Pacific Island ports and then were rerouted to Eden and Newcastle at which which were subsequently denied entry as the border rules were rapidly changing.

As we were doing laps off the NSW coast for the last few days we made two emergency calls into Sydney Harbour to drop off unwell passengers which to the best of my knowledge were not virus related.

We were given no reports while on board of any suspected COVID-19 cases.

The day before we disembarked we were informed by the Captain that he had received information from the authorities that because of the new isolation rules that came into effect during our cruise we needed to undergo self isolation for 14 days. His advice he received was that because there were no suspected cases on board the 14 days would commence from our last overseas port which was Noumea on the 12th March. A number of people questioned why not 14 days after arrival as we have hardly been isolated on board.

We were given a letter by Border Force on their letterhead confirming this. We were also instructed that we could travel directly to our homes, hotels or other countries as required.

We live in Sydney and travelled home by train. We made a conscious effort to go to the end carriage and avoid others which we did as much for our own personal safety as we did to protect others.

The next day (19th March) I began to develop a mild cold. No temperature, slight cough and very slight sore throat. I had no plans for a virus test at that stage as I was certain it was a cold. My wife and I had isolated in our home and also isolated from other family members in the residence as per our instructions.

On Friday (20th March) we received an email stating that a passenger on Voyager had tested positive after disembarkation and as we were now deemed to have been a close contact our isolation period was now 14 days from the end of the cruise. We also decided that as my cold was a little worse it would be appropriate to now be tested. Did some research, made a few calls and managed to find a walk in testing facility at Canterbury Hospital was available on Saturday morning.

Saturday (March 21st) Completed the test and were informed that results would take 2-5 days. I still felt almost certain I just had a cold. My wife had no symptoms.

Sunday (March 22nd) I received a message from a friend from Canberra who we spent a lot of time with on board that they had tested positive. Like us both he and his wife had been well while on board. His wife tested negative. After the message I started to be a LOT more apprehensive about our results.

Monday (March 23rd) I got the phone call with a positive result for COVID-19. I then isolated from my wife who also remained isolated from the rest of the household. My wife's test returned a negative result and she is still symptom free and isolated. They do not retest her unless she develops symptoms in the 14 days in which she has isolated from me.

Happy to say that my symptoms remained mild. They lasted about 7-8 days and as of yesterday I am deemed to have cleared the virus. The NSW Health guidelines say that you are deemed virus free after a period of 10 days from onset of symptoms AND a further 72 hours symptom free. There is no follow up test. In fact I found it impossible to have one done as my doctor cannot issue a referral because I don't meet the government guidelines for testing. Only health workers and anyone who has been admitted to hospital with the virus qualify for a retest to prove they are virus free.

I have been in contact via social media with around 12 fellow passengers who have tested positive and a much larger number who have tested negative. Only one of the positive cases reported symptoms while on board. The others became ill after the cruise or had no symptoms. The person who developed symptoms on board stated that they reported to the ship's medical centre and were given a nose swab and confined to their cabin with flu like symptoms on Sunday 15th March. To the best of my knowledge they can only test for Influenza A on board. When asked what her swab result was the person said that they were told they were inconclusive but that is only hearsay. The person last I heard was in a Gold Coast hospital in a stable condition.

There is a small but disgruntled group from the cruise who have a social media campaign going that claims that RCL knew there were positive cases on board and deliberately covered the fact up. I personally don't subscribe to that theory.

Feel free to fire away with any questions.

Cheers.

 

[moa999]

Great first hand report @woodryen and glad you have recovered.

Can you describe your symptoms v.a.v a normal cold/flu?
Very fortunate that your wife seemingly didn't get it at all

 

[woodyren]

The best I can do is it was similar to a mild cold or very mild flu. Blocked nose, some tiredness, slight cough that lasted only around 2 days, lack of taste but my appetite was OK. No fever at any stage.

In all honesty it is not something that would have really bothered me in normal circumstances.

 

[Pushka]

The best I can do is it was similar to a mild cold or very mild flu. Blocked nose, some tiredness, slight cough that lasted only around 2 days, lack of taste but my appetite was OK. No fever at any stage.

In all honesty it is not something that would have really bothered me in normal circumstances.

That's wonderful. I wish they could assess what it is about some people who do not do well at all.

 

[love_the_life]

The best I can do is it was similar to a mild cold or very mild flu. Blocked nose, some tiredness, slight cough that lasted only around 2 days, lack of taste but my appetite was OK. No fever at any stage.

In all honesty it is not something that would have really bothered me in normal circumstances.

Glad to hear your case of COVID19 was a mild one, but it would have been a bit of a shock to have been diagnosed with it in the first place. Thanks for the info on the disease.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The best I can do is it was similar to a mild cold or very mild flu. Blocked nose, some tiredness, slight cough that lasted only around 2 days, lack of taste but my appetite was OK. No fever at any stage.

In all honesty it is not something that would have really bothered me in normal circumstances.

Thank you for sharing.

The lack of taste/smell does seem to be a key indicator for many that one has (or had) CV 19.

 

[get me outta here]

I'm not into this topic that much, so this link (non Pay walled), may not be new to the experts here, it does seem to follow on from the link I posted yesterday :

RUBY PRINCESS – THE QUESTIONS THAT MUST BE ANSWERED

Ruby Princess - The Questions That Must Be Answered - Cruise Passenger

The vessel has now become the largest source of Australian fatalities from COVID-19 after two more died yesterday. There are over 300 other cases from

cruisepassenger.com.au

 

[Pushka]

I'm not into this topic that much, so this link (non Pay walled), may not be new to the experts here, it does seem to follow on from the link I posted yesterday :

RUBY PRINCESS – THE QUESTIONS THAT MUST BE ANSWERED

Ruby Princess - The Questions That Must Be Answered - Cruise Passenger

The vessel has now become the largest source of Australian fatalities from COVID-19 after two more died yesterday. There are over 300 other cases from

cruisepassenger.com.au

I'd like someone in authority (Harbour, Police, Ambulance, Princess Captain, NSW Health) to refute the story that a passenger was disembarked at 2.30am and sent immediately to hospital and who later died. If that did occur then everyone knew what was happening.

 

[p--and--t]

IMHO, as unpalatable as it might be to authorities, it would be irresponsible and inhumane to send away any ship that has illness on board and doom crew members to certain death in the journey to a port they have never visited since the vessel being built (port of registration e.g. Bahamas) where they would not receive the much needed health care that would be required.

Just as we would expect any Australian to be treated overseas to compassion, needed health care and repatriation as soon as possible, these crew members deserve the same.

If they are left off shore floating around we will end up with another Pacific [Edit] Diamond Princess debacle and many lives lost unnecessarily due to the confined & unsanitary conditions with recirculating air-conditioning.

Get them off, test them, put the sick ones in isolation and the rest on a plane home to their loved ones (at the expense of the Cruiseline).

The longer the authorities procrastinate, the more the virus will spread and the greater the load on our resources when the only decision that is right in the name of humanity is made. In the meantime we will be responsible for needless deaths and a stain on our international reputation for decades to come..

 

[woodyren]

Yes. If that occurred it is improbable that any single entity in those you listed could have covered up the issue.

 

[tgh]

And so the sad saga continues.. crew expendable ? easy to get more….

One cruise crew member has died on the Royal Caribbean-owned Celebrity Infinity ship, the company confirmed to the Miami Herald Thursday. Two additional crew members have been evacuated “for medical reasons” off the Oasis of the Seas, also owned by Miami-based Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.
“We don’t know how long we are here, who they are testing, where we are going,” a crew member on Royal Caribbean’s Oasis of the Seas said. “We know nothing. They aren’t sharing anything with us.”

and

Update from the Coral Princess from a crew member: 200 people isolated (crew + passenger), 12 confirmed with COVID19 (5 crew and 7 guests). Running out of provisions, not allowed to dock in South Florida. Tomorrow Regal Princess will send some provisions via tender boat

 

[Pushka]

And so the sad saga continues.. crew expendable ? easy to get more….

One cruise crew member has died on the Royal Caribbean-owned Celebrity Infinity ship, the company confirmed to the Miami Herald Thursday. Two additional crew members have been evacuated “for medical reasons” off the Oasis of the Seas, also owned by Miami-based Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.
“We don’t know how long we are here, who they are testing, where we are going,” a crew member on Royal Caribbean’s Oasis of the Seas said. “We know nothing. They aren’t sharing anything with us.”

and

Update from the Coral Princess from a crew member: 200 people isolated (crew + passenger), 12 confirmed with COVID19 (5 crew and 7 guests). Running out of provisions, not allowed to dock in South Florida. Tomorrow Regal Princess will send some provisions via tender boat

By not cancelling immediately it became apparent that Covid had spread, some members of the cruise line industry have shown complete disregard for anyone's life and no safety regard for its employees. Awful awful times. They needed to stop all cruises in early March and world cruises at the closest port while the ships were clear.

 

[p--and--t]

I wonder how many people watched the movie and thought how unrealistic is that...I can see distinct parallels between some of the plot lines there and attitudes of authorities to crews of cruise ships.

Elysium (film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Anna]

another Pacific Princess debacle

What's the Pacific Princess debacle? I haven't heard about that one. Do you mean Diamond Princess in Japan?

 

[p--and--t]

What's the Pacific Princess debacle? I haven't heard about that one. Do you mean Diamond Princess in Japan?

Yes you are correct. Freudian slip, I have travelled on the Pacific Princess (and really enjoyed it).

 

[drron]

Well the treatment of the pax disembarkation from the Ruby Princess was incompetent but the treatment of the crew by the same authorities is inhumane and cruel.

The Captain of the Ruby Princess must shoulder a good deal of the blame.He must have known that he should report if anyone on board had respiratory symptoms when he arrived in Sydney.