Cruising choices with an active Pandemic

[Pushka]

This is a huge punch to the cruise industry

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

 

[woodyren]

Surely they never really expected to return to some normality in the next 100 days anyway despite what they have said in their press releases.

 

[p--and--t]

This is a huge punch to the cruise industry

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

I have a suspicion that unless Cruise companies have significant reserves, way beyond the majority of companies, they will suffer much more than airlines, albeit in a slightly delayed timeframe (seeing they continued to operate for a few weeks longer).

The stigma and fear will be enormous to overcome given the number of directly related cases and deaths (unlike airlines).

The costs of housing, feeding and medicating circa 100,000 crew just around the US coast alone for months, maintaining assets, the eventual repatriation of staff and greatly reduced future patronage will be a cost that few could bear.

 

[VPS]

Just chatting to a friend in NZ who was booked on a Princess cruise to Alaska in May and Princess still haven't cancelled it so they can't get all their money back - WTF

 

[tgh]

Cruise travellers are optimists it seems

Despite the coronavirus pandemic's effect on the cruise industry, including multiple cases in which ships were forbidden to dock due to outbreaks onboard, booking is up for 2021 compared to 2019, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.

Bookings for 2021 are up 40 percent compared to 2019 on online cruise market CruiseCompete.com in the last 45 days, company head Heidi Allison told the newspaper, with only 11 percent of the bookings coming from customers whose 2020 cruises were canceled.

"People are still booking cruises and are anxious to sail again when this is all over," Allison said.

Swiss bank USB, meanwhile, found cruise booking volume for next year increased 9 percent in the last month compared to this time last year, with many of the bookings involving customers' credits for 2020 cancellations but with the volume "still show[ing] a surprising resilience in desire to book a cruise.

USB also found that of people whose cruises were canceled, 76 percent are opting for credit on a future trip rather than a refund. Cruise lines have taken extra steps to incentivize the choice, offering up to 125 percent of the fare of the canceled trip, according to the Times.

"We are optimistic that once this crisis is behind us, travel will rebound quickly, which bodes well for 2021," Paula Twidale, a senior vice president at AAA travel, told the newspaper, adding that AAA has also logged an increase in bookings beyond those attributable to cancellations.

Meanwhile, a CruiseCritic.com poll of more than 4,600 cruise passengers indicated about 75 percent of respondents plan to take cruises as often or more often as they did before the pandemic once it subsides, with the other 25 percent saying they would take them less often or stop altogether.

"We're not dealing with post 9/11 where people were afraid for their safety when traveling beyond U.S. borders," Stewart Chiron, who runs the website CruiseGuy, told the Times. "Many people are ready to sail once a clear timeline for resumption of service and current ship schedules are revealed."

more here…. Believe it or not, people are still booking cruises for next year

 

[Pushka]

Surely they never really expected to return to some normality in the next 100 days anyway despite what they have said in their press releases.

Oh you would be surprised what the cruisers on cruise critic think. Will my May cruise go ahead and what is the best cabin? They are seriously deluded.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

This is a huge punch to the cruise industry

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

Interesting that they feel the need for some PR for POTUS in making the announcement!

The No Sail Order reinforces the strong action by President Donald J. Trump and the White House Coronavirus Task Force to combat the spread of COVID-19 in the United States. President Trump acted early and decisively to implement travel restrictions on foreign nationals who had recently been to China and Europe and by issuing the 30 Days to Slow the Spread guidelines. These containment and mitigation strategies have been a critical component of the United States COVID-19 response, but despite these efforts, cruise ship travel markedly increases the risk and impact of the COVID-19 outbreak within the United States.

Just a pity that the research now shows that NY State was being infected via Europe in February. Then the testing debacle, and only last week belated internal flight restrictions. Contact tracing virtually does not exist. Mixed messaging galore. Early and decisive action is not what has been occurring in the USA.

 

[Pushka]

Just chatting to a friend in NZ who was booked on a Princess cruise to Alaska in May and Princess still haven't cancelled it so they can't get all their money back - WTF

Alaska's ports are closed until July 1. What the cruiselines are doing in not cancelling is killing their cred but each cruiseline has their fanbois who are actually defending them.

 

[get me outta here]

Is that any particular country people saying that?

Oh you would be surprised what the cruisers on cruise critic think. Will my May cruise go ahead and what is the best cabin? They are seriously deluded.

 

[woodyren]

For anyone interested in some more first hand knowledge. At a personal level I have little faith in the Health department's current criteria of deeming people virus free if they have isolated for at least 10 days from first symptoms and then been symptom free for an additional 72 hours.

Here is a timeline of what happened in my situation. They told me that I could come out of isolation and return to work. I decided that I didn't want to take a risk that I was still infectious and so remained in self iso from family and refused too return to work. I am casual and have not received any sick leave and do not qualify for Government assistance.

Brief history of COVID issues.

18/3/20 Returned to Sydney on Voyager of the Seas cruise ship. We were given a letter from NSW Border force to self isolate for 14 days at the time from last overseas port which was on March 12th so isolation was to finish on March 26th. Many onboard questioned why the 14 days did not start from when we disembarked but the captain stated that was the advice from Border Force and the letter backing tat up was on Border Force stationary.

19/3/20 Started getting symptoms similar to a mild cold.

20/3/20 Received an email from NSW health that a passenger on board Voyager had tested positive for COVID-19 and we were to self isolate from the time of disembarkation for 14 days which extended the isolation period till April 1st.

21/3/20 Because of mild symptoms and positive case on board I decided to get tested for COVID-19

23/3/20 Received a phone call from NSW Health that I had tested positive. Wife tested negative and we then isolated from each other. My isolation period was under NSW health policy to be 10 days from date of first symptoms 19/3/20 till 29/3/20 then a further 72 hours symptom free. Daily phone calls from Sothern Syd health to check on my condition which remained mild.

28/3/20 Symptoms had finished. Daily phone calls were received to confirm this.

30?/3/20. Contact with my employer *** and (Government Transport Agency I I contract to) to enquire about criteria for return to work once cleared. Informed that Agency policy required a negative test result. Tried various places (COVID test centres, GP's, NSW Health ) to arrange for test only to be told by all that follow up testing was not in their procedures.
Various correspondence with Agency who then aligned their policy with NSW Health which allowed for a NSW Health clearance letter to be the condition for return to work.

1/4/20 Call from NSW Health releasing me from isolation.

2/4/20 Received a release letter from NSW Health confirming a release from isolation on 1/4/20.
Despite being cleared by both NSW Health and Agency aligned policy to return to work on 2/4/20 I decided to not to return to work or to not stop isolating from my family until the next week on 6/4/20. I did this because in my personal research I could find no compelling evidence that proved I had cleared the virus appart from doing a retest. As stated previously I was unable to be retested under current policy.

4/4/20 Telephoned my GP and asked again for a retest. I told him that concerns for COVID-19 transmission to my family or work colleagues was adversely affecting my mental health. GP agreed and referred me for a retest.

Once I had arranged for a retest I decided to remain off work until I received my result despite being cleared and eligible to return to work.

6/4/20 Retest done.

8/4/20 Received a call from GP telling me that test showed still positive for COVID-19. GP told me that DESPITE the positive test this his follow up calls to NSW Health they had advised him to inform me that I was still OK to return to work and remove myself from isolation as I met their criteria of 10 days + 72 hours symptom free.

GP also told me that he could not refer me for further testing and had in fact been told by NSW health that he had done the wrong thing referring me for the follow up test outside of their criteria.

I also followed up myself with a call to NSW Health questioning that decision. I was told that the decision is in line with their policy and I could remove myself from iso and return to work. I chose to remain in isolation as this made zero sense to me.

I then requested to talk to a more senior person who could advise me of my risk of transmission. They said they would discus this and call me back.

9/420 Received a call from Southern Sydney Service saying they had discussed my case and that they have now agreed to allow me to undergo further testing. They said my virus levels were low in the test on 6/4/20 and that I should undergo a retest on 14/4/20. The instructed me to isolate until a test comes back negative.

Feel free to ask questions.

 

[woodyren]

Oh you would be surprised what the cruisers on cruise critic think. Will my May cruise go ahead and what is the best cabin? They are seriously deluded.

Not at all. I am also a member of quite a few Facebook groups and many are still holding out hope of early resumptions.

 

[Pushka]

For anyone interested in some more first hand knowledge. At a personal level I have little faith in the Health department's current criteria of deeming people virus free if they have isolated for at least 10 days from first symptoms and then been symptom free for an additional 72 hours.

Here is a timeline of what happened in my situation. They told me that I could come out of isolation and return to work. I decided that I didn't want to take a risk that I was still infectious and so remained in self iso from family and refused too return to work. I am casual and have not received any sick leave and do not qualify for Government assistance.

Brief history of COVID issues.

18/3/20 Returned to Sydney on Voyager of the Seas cruise ship. We were given a letter from NSW Border force to self isolate for 14 days at the time from last overseas port which was on March 12th so isolation was to finish on March 26th. Many onboard questioned why the 14 days did not start from when we disembarked but the captain stated that was the advice from Border Force and the letter backing tat up was on Border Force stationary.

19/3/20 Started getting symptoms similar to a mild cold.

20/3/20 Received an email from NSW health that a passenger on board Voyager had tested positive for COVID-19 and we were to self isolate from the time of disembarkation for 14 days which extended the isolation period till April 1st.

21/3/20 Because of mild symptoms and positive case on board I decided to get tested for COVID-19

23/3/20 Received a phone call from NSW Health that I had tested positive. Wife tested negative and we then isolated from each other. My isolation period was under NSW health policy to be 10 days from date of first symptoms 19/3/20 till 29/3/20 then a further 72 hours symptom free. Daily phone calls from Sothern Syd health to check on my condition which remained mild.

28/3/20 Symptoms had finished. Daily phone calls were received to confirm this.

30?/3/20. Contact with my employer *** and (Government Transport Agency I I contract to) to enquire about criteria for return to work once cleared. Informed that Agency policy required a negative test result. Tried various places (COVID test centres, GP's, NSW Health ) to arrange for test only to be told by all that follow up testing was not in their procedures.
Various correspondence with Agency who then aligned their policy with NSW Health which allowed for a NSW Health clearance letter to be the condition for return to work.

1/4/20 Call from NSW Health releasing me from isolation.

2/4/20 Received a release letter from NSW Health confirming a release from isolation on 1/4/20.
Despite being cleared by both NSW Health and Agency aligned policy to return to work on 2/4/20 I decided to not to return to work or to not stop isolating from my family until the next week on 6/4/20. I did this because in my personal research I could find no compelling evidence that proved I had cleared the virus appart from doing a retest. As stated previously I was unable to be retested under current policy.

4/4/20 Telephoned my GP and asked again for a retest. I told him that concerns for COVID-19 transmission to my family or work colleagues was adversely affecting my mental health. GP agreed and referred me for a retest.

Once I had arranged for a retest I decided to remain off work until I received my result despite being cleared and eligible to return to work.

6/4/20 Retest done.

8/4/20 Received a call from GP telling me that test showed still positive for COVID-19. GP told me that DESPITE the positive test this his follow up calls to NSW Health they had advised him to inform me that I was still OK to return to work and remove myself from isolation as I met their criteria of 10 days + 72 hours symptom free.

GP also told me that he could not refer me for further testing and had in fact been told by NSW health that he had done the wrong thing referring me for the follow up test outside of their criteria.

I also followed up myself with a call to NSW Health questioning that decision. I was told that the decision is in line with their policy and I could remove myself from iso and return to work. I chose to remain in isolation as this made zero sense to me.

I then requested to talk to a more senior person who could advise me of my risk of transmission. They said they would discus this and call me back.

9/420 Received a call from Southern Sydney Service saying they had discussed my case and that they have now agreed to allow me to undergo further testing. They said my virus levels were low in the test on 6/4/20 and that I should undergo a retest on 14/4/20. The instructed me to isolate until a test comes back negative.

Feel free to ask questions.

What a mess and well done for everything you've done so far. I'm wondering if they are acting on the fact that once you are symptom free for a period of time, then despite still being positive that you are no longer infectious. I'd also post your account on the Australia spread thread as there are people active in the field who wouldn't be reading this thread and may be able to explain it better or even fix the "system" up. I do know that in the UK they say that after 7 days of no symptoms then you are fine to go.

 

[p--and--t]

Interesting that they feel the need for some PR for POTUS in making the announcement!

The No Sail Order reinforces the strong action by President Donald J. Trump and the White House Coronavirus Task Force to combat the spread of COVID-19 in the United States. President Trump acted early and decisively to implement travel restrictions on foreign nationals who had recently been to China and Europe and by issuing the 30 Days to Slow the Spread guidelines. These containment and mitigation strategies have been a critical component of the United States COVID-19 response, but despite these efforts, cruise ship travel markedly increases the risk and impact of the COVID-19 outbreak within the United States.

Just a pity that the research now shows that NY State was being infected via Europe in February. Then the testing debacle, and only last week belated internal flight restrictions. Contact tracing virtually does not exist. Mixed messaging galore. Early and decisive action is not what has been occurring in the USA.

Mmmm decisive action, really! It has been reported intelligence agencies briefed the White House that there was evidence emerging of a potential pandemic out of Wuhan in November 2019 and urged for action to prepare be taken immediately.

 

[drron]

Mmmm decisive action, really! It has been reported intelligence agencies briefed the White House that there was evidence emerging of a potential pandemic out of Wuhan in November 2019 and urged for action to prepare be taken immediately.

Has been debunked as fake news.

 

[Pushka]

Multiple cruise ships crossing the Bight tonight on their way up to Indonesia and beyond including Viking Orion that we cruised Alaska just under a year ago. Sad times.

 

[drron]

There were other CDC directives that will adversely affect the cruise industry including this-
"Cruise lines must arrange for disembarking travelers with no symptoms or mild symptoms to return directly to their residence by chartered or private transportation that can be properly sanitized. Commercial flights and other public transportation may not be used. "

Cruise Ship Passengers Are No Longer Allowed To Take U.S. Commercial Flights For 14 Days Post Sailing

Cruise Passengers Banned From Flights 14 Days Post Sailing.

loyaltylobby.com

 

[Pushka]

There were other CDC directives that will adversely affect the cruise industry including this-
"Cruise lines must arrange for disembarking travelers with no symptoms or mild symptoms to return directly to their residence by chartered or private transportation that can be properly sanitized. Commercial flights and other public transportation may not be used. "

Cruise Ship Passengers Are No Longer Allowed To Take U.S. Commercial Flights For 14 Days Post Sailing

Cruise Passengers Banned From Flights 14 Days Post Sailing.

loyaltylobby.com

Surely this is a temporary measure although currently there are no cruises happening anyway. It's almost designed to bankrupt cruiselines.

 

[drron]

Surely this is a temporary measure although currently there are no cruises happening anyway. It's almost designed to bankrupt cruiselines.

There are still several cruise ships off the coast of the USA.

 

[moa999]

There are still several cruise ships off the coast of the USA.

More than several.
Estimated to be over 100 ships and 90,000 crew members off the coast of Miami

Over 90,000 cruise ship crew members stuck at sea amid coronavirus outbreak

Last week, three cruise crew members had to be med-evaced, one later died.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Pushka]

There are still several cruise ships off the coast of the USA.

They don't have passengers now do they? I think coral finally disembarked everyone. That's what I meant by "cruises". If they haven't reduced to skeleton crew then I'm guessing it's another round of huge pain for the disembarking crew. I think it's going to take a very long time to recover Although the Saudis have bought a huge chunk of Carnival shares.