Current Union Activity - Tide of support turned against them?

[munitalP]

I think that until recently the general population tide of opinion has been pro union - in favour of Qantas employees being paid more - regardless of how little or how much we know about the requests being made by the unions, however, now the facts are coming to light regarding the demands - and in my opinion, the demands are borderline insane, it would seem there is a sway away for the support that was shown to the union demands just a few weeks ago.

Compound this by disrupting the travel plans of Joe public - the very people who pay the airfares to the company who in turn pays the salary, the public has become less and less tolerant as every day goes by - not of Qantas rock solid stance on not bowing to the union demands, but of the perceived selfish activities of the unions and its members in causing delays, fare hikes and general disruption in and around airports across Australia.

Thank a pro union left wing government? I think so - but everyone has a right to their beliefs so put away the flame throwers.

So, the short sightedness of the unions has now seen Qantas start playing the final hand in this game of Texas holdem. The unions hold a pair of jacks, the flop, turn and river are a jack and 2 aces - the union does not realise the full house they believe will win them the game, is about to be trumped by the two aces that Qantas hold.

What are these aces? Simple. Qantas has started and will continue to ground aircraft to offset cost/losses. Airfares will increase until only very resilient customers will continue to pay the union forced fare increases, and another Australian icon will wither to a point of no return.

The government yesterday decided to step in and tell Qantas that if there was no resolve, they would be forced to take it to arbitration - use the fair work communist laws inflicted upon Australian businesses to enter this argument, and before I get flamed again for the use of the C word, where in God's name would a government have the right to do that except a communist country and Australia? What happened to the rights of an Australian business to run their business the way they felt fit to run it good or bad? Simple answer, the Labor government (used in the loosest term) opened the doors to the Unions again, and gave them the rights to enter any workplace as they saw fit.

Another thing to remember is that the push from the unions involved are from union paid professional unionists who have no emotional ties to the "causes" they push - to them it's just another day at work where they will go home with their salary paid for by the union, whilst their "brothers" will be out in the cold burning wood in an upturned 44 gallon drum keeping warm while trying to survive off their savings - unpaid as they are on strike.

I think this needs to stop.

munitalP

 

[serfty]

I see where they are all coming from, but can't vote as it's not B&W.

It is interesting to note though that when Martin Ferguson criticises a Union Leader then there's some pointer as to the eventual result in the standoff.

 

[awilcockson]

I was actually supportive of their cause, I believed that Qantas were being unnecessarily intransigent.

However, the recent tactics of calling a strike then calling it off at the last minute and trying to paint Qantas as the bad guys, compounded with the advice from the union to the public to stop spending money with the company that pays it's members wages has led me to reconsider my position.

I have a feeling I'm not the only member of the public whose support has shifted away from the unions/workers and towards Qantas.

 

[harvyk]

the unions biggest asset was public support, but I think their current course of action is killing that good will.

That said I think this is far from black and white, and I think there is a lot of misinformation coming from both sides.

 

[yohy?!]

The question feels eerily similar to the last federal election - making a choice for who is the least worst of 2 sides.

In this case I chose against QF because my view is they have chosen to run a campaign of disinformation as a negotiation tactic. I do feel that some of the union representation is pretty on the nose (Steve Purvinas I'm looking at you) .

I think the other unions should have followed the Pilots approach and made it more about winning hearts and minds than rolling disruptions.

 

[Limewood]

My friends with young kids are simply livid at this disruption to their long awaited flights they saved for and booked long ago. I've not met one person who supports this action by these cowboy unions.

 

[UP4014]

As a side, I did hear this morning on Radio National that some institutional shareholders are not impressed with Big Al's 71% pay increase and he may be in for a hammering in two weeks at the AGM. Not a good look to screw others while at the same time having your own hand out for more.

 

[Mal]

Qantas isn't squeaky clean - and I don't support them fully in this battle... BUT, they are winning the quest for public support.

I don't know what they've changed back-end (new PR people?), but the strength of their rebuttal on media and issuance of facts that the media are lapping up is giving them a lot of public support.

With both sides not wanting to budge though - this will keep going on.

 

[Sifor]

The government yesterday decided to step in and tell Qantas that if there was no resolve, they would be forced to take it to arbitration - use the fair work communist laws inflicted upon Australian businesses to enter this argument, and before I get flamed again for the use of the C word, where in God's name would a government have the right to do that except a communist country and Australia? What happened to the rights of an Australian business to run their business the way they felt fit to run it good or bad? Simple answer, the Labor government (used in the loosest term) opened the doors to the Unions again, and gave them the rights to enter any workplace as they saw fit.

Love it!

 

[dfcatch]

Some good points.

But IMHO, I don't think there ever was overwhelming support for the unions.

I think there was ambivalence early on, and in principle, who doesn't support a brother getting a payrise?

(I was careful to use "brother" and not "bruvvers" )

I think the tide against the union is now a raging torrent. And whilst Qantas may not have had many supporters, I don't think the union was ever in front (with the exception of the pilots).

I may be biased of course, living in a city which depends on tourism and is already struggling.

Aviation strikes are a very dirty word up here....... Not sure why??

 

[pauly7]

It really does appear the government is sick to death of SP. Never thought I'd hear a Labor government criticize a union and it's leader so openly.

It's pretty clear the tide has swung to QF's side, I had a laugh at Mel the other day when the union marching thru the baggage area literally got shoved out of the way by angry PAX trying to get their bags.... A few who told them to go stick it in language that would get me banned here.

Watch out TWU. Julia is coming for you

 

[ausi ski bum]

It will be a sad day when we no longer have a Qantas flying in Australia, does the Union not realise flying was once this up market high end resource they could gouge for their members, today its a flying bus, means to get from A to B. If the premuim airlines go, so do their members wages and conditions they enjoy today.

Who is investing Billions in aircraft, the union or the airline, its actually not unreasonable to have Qantas making a profit, they carry the risk.

Keep it up Unions and we will all be flying Virgin and Jet Star

 

[samh004]

In theory unions are good for workers, in practice here though, it’s a real disgrace. I would have thought that to lead a union you had to be a worker for the particular job or group of people you’re leading. I’m not sure how having someone that doesn’t feel the pinch, doesn’t know the feel of everything, is useful, but perhaps that emotional detachment helps too. Doesn’t look like it in this case, seems more like it just enables them to trash the company they’re fighting for.

On the face of it, they have some good demands, but their tactics make them seem like terrorists. The lowest of the low. You call a strike, you strike, you don’t pull out at the last minute and call another. I find myself almost hoping that if they’re allowed to do stuff like that, Qantas could do something just as bad (not sure what), and point to what they did first as a reason to get away with it.

 

[cove]

I was brought up to believe if you don't like it you leave and get another job.
The problem is QF is a high payer so this option would deliver a chunky pay cut to anyone who leaves.
Joe Public is getting upset being messed around that's for sure.

 

[Daggs01]

I am with QF on this one and feel sorry for the staff who have to cop the brunt of upset customers and for the shareholders as well.

Many super funds probably have $$ in QF so that's another knock on effect.

I work in Finance, we don't have unions. If you want more money, take it up directly with your boss and put a good case forward, otherwise find work elsewhere.

I think if QF decide to move some operations away from Australia to pay lower salaries, increase profits and get rid of the unions - I wouldn't be too upset with them.

Business is all about consistent and quality service, at the moment, none of this is happening, the damage is being done and it's a long way back to where they were.

If I were Joyce, I'd start performance managing them out as per their employment contracts, after all, everyone is replaceable.

 

[browski]

I don't think the public support was ever in favour of the workers; so the tide has not really changed.
However, it is best to remember that the public are in the main, complete morons; so best not to ask them what they think. Most won't even know that Qantas is not government owned. The most relevant stat is this.... the professional engineers' campaign enjoys overwhelming support — 99.2% of members voted to support protected industrial action against Qantas.

Whenever I think of this dispute, I always try to replace the word "Qantas" with "Tiger". If the problems were with Tiger, then everyone just simply fly another airline until the dispute passed; isn't it really that simple. Not sure why Qantas is being treated as something special, maybe it's for sentimental reasons.

The real people who are affected by flying another airline are us Frequent Flyers with status; Joe Public is not affected at all (for any future travel). Travel already booked is a problem, but best not to exacerbate the problem by buying more QF tickets for now.

Steve P should be commended for stating that it would be best for consumers to fly another airline whilst this dispute carries on. It is not unAustralian to state the bleeding obvious. Every single person on this forum will have advised each and every one of their colleagues/family/friends exactly the same thing. Are we all unAustralian? I think M Ferguson was just posturing to get to the Right of Abbott on this issue.

AJs presser yesterday was a sad performance. He has only now realised that his gamble is not paying off. Things will get ugly because AJ has personally overinvested in this course. It won't take the Govt (or public opinion) to sort it out, it will take major Shareholders and Board Members.

If you were on the Qantas board, would you encourage AJ to carry on?

 

[UP4014]

I work in Finance, we don't have unions. If you want more money, take it up directly with your boss and put a good case forward, otherwise find work elsewhere.

It's not that easy for the lowest on the structure to simply put a case forward, I'd be interested to know how the cleaners get in your financial office, I would expect they can put their case for doing an excellent job and you business would be happy to pay more.

Not that easy for them is it.

 

[UP4014]

AJs presser yesterday was a sad performance. He has only now realised that his gamble is not paying off. Things will get ugly because AJ has personally overinvested in this course. It won't take the Govt (or public opinion) to sort it out, it will take major Shareholders and Board Members.

If you were on the Qantas board, would you encourage AJ to carry on?

By locking out workers AJ can bring this all down on top of him and board, a lock out can trigger compulsory arbitration which could come down on the side of the Unions.

We've all complained here about AJ degrading QF for us as passengers, now the Unions are complaining of the same thing (by way of other means) for a section of employees we are all taking the moral high ground.:shock:

Matt

 

[Sprucegoose]

I see where they are all coming from, but can't vote as it's not B&W.

It is interesting to note though that when Martin Ferguson criticises a Union Leader then there's some pointer as to the eventual result in the standoff.

Certainly not B&W.

I support the pilots against the coy and the coy against union(s). This is no time to be striking for more money. It is time to take action to protect what we have, a highly competent flight crews.

Engineers union too cute by half I reckon at this point and will lose public support quickly.

Qantas should not reduce capacity.

 

[Ikara]

"I don't think the public support was ever in favour of the workers; so the tide has not really changed.
However, it is best to remember that the public are in the main, complete morons; so best not to ask them what they think."

Browski,
I therefore will not give you my opinion as I'm "the public"

Cheers
JB