Dear Mr Joyce...

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I'd suggest upping the minimum number of flights.
i'd suggest lowering the number of SC's required to achieve status, but up the percentage which must be earned on QF flights. (eg 75% must be earnt on QF flights otherwise they do not count towards status) because seriously, is someone who flys only on cx / aa / ba etc really a "Qantas Frequent Flyer"?The big question must be asked, is someone who does a lot of dom Y flying worth less to QF than someone who only flys QF 4 times a year and then does AA YUPS for the rest of the year?
 
i'd suggest lowering the number of SC's required to achieve status, but up the percentage which must be earned on QF flights. (eg 75% must be earnt on QF flights otherwise they do not count towards status) because seriously, is someone who flys only on cx / aa / ba etc really a "Qantas Frequent Flyer"?The big question must be asked, is someone who does a lot of dom Y flying worth less to QF than someone who only flys QF 4 times a year and then does AA YUPS for the rest of the year?

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't believe that lowering the number of SC's to achieve status level is the answer. QF is practically giving SG away in corn flake packets at the moment, in order to slow the potential exodus to DJ.

When you fly on an A380 more than 25% of passengers have priority boarding, and that is without bringing status passengers into the equation. :shock: (Should I be surprised at that? I know I was - maybe I'm just naive.) The way things are going with status it won't be long before the non priority line will be shorter than the the priority one. (OK maybe an exaggeration, but you know where I'm coming from.)

You are spot on in your comment about QFF and QF. It is about loyalty to QFF, which at the moment can be achieved without a lot of loyalty to QF, and I don't think that is necessarily right.
 
i'd suggest lowering the number of SC's required to achieve status, but up the percentage which must be earned on QF flights. (eg 75% must be earnt on QF flights otherwise they do not count towards status) because seriously, is someone who flys only on cx / aa / ba etc really a "Qantas Frequent Flyer"?The big question must be asked, is someone who does a lot of dom Y flying worth less to QF than someone who only flys QF 4 times a year and then does AA YUPS for the rest of the year?

Now that's a good one. There do seem to be a few American airline flyers on this forum that have platinum QF status, and then they'll be the ones advocating higher SCs needed to be a QF frequent flyer.

Personally I only fly around Aus and to NZ, and it seems to take long enough to get status on my measly 10-2o SCs each flight.....
 
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't believe that lowering the number of SC's to achieve status level is the answer. QF is practically giving SG away in corn flake packets at the moment, in order to slow the potential exodus to DJ.

What? Where? Define giving SG away. Are you talking about the double status credits promotion (that I didn't get offered) or something else?
 
I think the qualification question has been done to death on other threads.

Personally I think the levels are fine (read - pls don't up the level or I might not make it). But nothing wrong with increasing the amount of flights required to be on QF metal.

Back on topic - I think the posts comparing to JB at DJ have been spot on.

Mr Joyce - instead of trying to turn QF into a LCC, why don't you focus again on the basics of the product that give us a reason to choose QF over other airlines.
 
What? Where? Define giving SG away. Are you talking about the double status credits promotion (that I didn't get offered) or something else?

Yes the double status credit promotions QF keep offering. (If you are already SG why would they offer it to you? They want new SG's. I didn't receive the offer either for what it is worth.)

...and in reality 700 SC's to gain and 600 SC's to retain is hardly a push if you read this forum.
 
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't believe that lowering the number of SC's to achieve status level is the answer. QF is practically giving SG away in corn flake packets at the moment, in order to slow the potential exodus to DJ.
Then maybe they need to read this forum, as on the switching allegiance thread, it appears the only ones jumping ship at the moment are WPs with enough flying to share around and gain status in both. but herein lies the problem with alliance cartels. You not only take on the burden of your own elites but also every other airline as well. It does seem odd to me that there are QFF status pax who only fly on QF on redemptions, talk about a way to go broke. Maybe what they should be doing is making it easier attain and maintain status with QF metal than with alliance partners, encouraging those CX & AA flyers to be registered on the CX\AA program rather than the QF one.
 
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Then maybe they need to read this forum, as on the switching allegiance thread, it appears the only ones jumping ship at the moment are WPs with enough flying to share around and gain status in both. but herein lies the problem with alliance cartels. You not only take on the burden of your own elites but also every other airline as well. It does seem odd to me that there are QFF status pax who only fly on QF on redemptions, talk about a way to go broke. Maybe what they should be doing is making it easier attain and maintain status with QF metal than with alliance partners, encouraging those CX & AA flyers to be registered on the CX\AA program rather than the QF one.

Don't forget that QF get paid everytime an AA/BA/CX member redeems benefits on QF metal. They don't give it away for free.

Redemptions, lounge access etc are billed to the member's home airline.
 
Now that's a good one. There do seem to be a few American airline flyers on this forum that have platinum QF status, and then they'll be the ones advocating higher SCs needed to be a QF frequent flyer.

Personally I only fly around Aus and to NZ, and it seems to take long enough to get status on my measly 10-2o SCs each flight.....
I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.I am AA plat(OWS),mrsdrron is WP-why?Because it is easier to get OWE on QF than AA in general.Flying the same long haul sectors in J I will get 70-90% of the way to EXP,mrsdrron earns 1700-1800 SCs.I though earn more miles!If you fly full fare economy I believe it favours AA.So there is an argument for increasing SC required for plat as everyone seems to believe there are too many AA elites.
However AA let you qualify on sectors as well-100 for EXP.
 
1400, not 1500 for platinum qualification. And as someone who's about to have earned platinum almost entirely through domestic Y-class travel, I'd really rather it didn't get any higher! If you wanted to make it harder to achieve, I'd suggest upping the minimum number of flights.

It was a statement of what I'd do so I did intend 1500. But changing the minimum flights would work as well. My main thought being that the qualification can be super hard provided the benefits are worth the loyalty.

is someone who flys only on cx / aa / ba etc really a "Qantas Frequent Flyer"?

This is the major issue with a separate QFF. Loyalty is to the FF program and not the airline.
 
Don't forget that QF get paid everytime an AA/BA/CX member redeems benefits on QF metal. They don't give it away for free. Redemptions, lounge access etc are billed to the member's home airline.
But if they are QFF members that gave gained status by flying predominantly partner airlines then is this still true? I think the system only works well when the member belongs to the FF program of the airline they actually fly most.
 
Then maybe they need to read this forum, as on the switching allegiance thread, it appears the only ones jumping ship at the moment are WPs with enough flying to share around and gain status in both. but herein lies the problem with alliance cartels. You not only take on the burden of your own elites but also every other airline as well. It does seem odd to me that there are QFF status pax who only fly on QF on redemptions, talk about a way to go broke. Maybe what they should be doing is making it easier attain and maintain status with QF metal than with alliance partners, encouraging those CX & AA flyers to be registered on the CX\AA program rather than the QF one.

QFF loyalty v QF loyalty. You'll get no argument from me if QF up the number of flights to achieve status. I'm loyal to the QFF program, in fact trapped in it. :!:

I am one of those pax that take advantage of the JASA and FASA, although it would not be fair to say I only fly QF on redemptions, I'll still earn more than 1200 SC's from paid QF travel, on QF metal, in my next membership year. (Last year it was 1750 SC's on paid QF) Without the JASA's and FASA'a it would be unlikely that QF would have much, if any, business from me.

With only 350 SC's required to gain SG, under the current promotion, I'm expecting to fight my way through the MEL QP to get to the J lounge!!
 
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But if they are QFF members that gave gained status by flying predominantly partner airlines then is this still true? I think the system only works well when the member belongs to the FF program of the airline they actually fly most.

No you are correct - If I am a QFF member flying QF metal - then QF wears the cost of providing me with lounge access, status benefits, FF points and SCs.

BUT - when I flew those partner airlines previously, eg. when I was on an AA flight crediting to my QFF membership - then AA received the revenue for my flights, but they paid QFF to award me QFF points and SCs.

If we flesh out your example further - assume that Mr AA Flyer is a QFF WP because he only flys his 4 minimum QF segments, but credits to QFF the rest of his AA flights:

When flying on AA:
- AA receives the ticket revenue
- Mr Flyer credits to QFF, so AA (who received flight revenue) pays QFF to award Mr Flyer with points and SCs
- When he uses the AA lounge - QFF pays AA for the lounge access.


Now - when redeeming flights:

Redeeming flights on QF with QFF points:
- QFF pays QF for the redeemed flight.

Redeeming flights on AA with QFF points:
- QFF pays AA for the redeemed flight.


Now - let's assume Mr AA Flyer flew all but his 4 QF segments with AA (or the partner airline) and now decides to milk his WP benefits by flying QF the rest of the year:
- QF receives the ticket revenue (either cash or in payment from QFF for points redemption)
- QF wears the cost of providing him lounge access and benefits, and pays QFF for points SCs earned (if a paid ticket).

So as you can see in the scenarios above - nothing is for free - QF/QFF are not charities and make money from you whichever way you play the game.

Obviously - QF make the most profit if you are a QFF member flying almost exclusively QF - because they get a larger slice of revenue from you, relative to the benefits provided.

So - yes - QF could up the QF segment requirement if they really felt that this was an issue. I have no problem if they do that - but at the same time, I'm not sure that they consider it a huge issue.
 
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The big advantage virgin has over QF is that there food is freshly made, and a much better product and they have flexi:D, the new J seats are a lot better then QF domestically, especially those 734's, and priority boarding, and i have to say that new MEL lounge is impressive, just see BNE tomorrow!
 
I think the real question for Mr Joyce is, what are you doing to widen the gap between QF and DJ? while QF stands still and DJ quickly puts new infrastructure into place, the difference between flying DJ and QF going forward will not be as favorable to QF as it once was. Especially as DJ will soon be able to sell you SQ international and give you status credits and points for it.
 
Dear Mr Joyce,

I'd like your team to have a look at an example of the interconnection between QFF, QF, and your OneWorld partners.

My friend Mr James is a busy man, in fact he is flying to London 6 times in the next 12 months. He is a member of QFF and a keen collector of points. He also reads the forums of AFF and has come up with a sustainable means of ensuring his trips are all nearer the pointy end of the plane. (It's all serfty's fault!! :p)

His plan is to earn points as follows:

Paid J Travel with BA: 95,000
Paid J Travel with LAN: 8,000
Paid Travel with QF: 80,000
JASA's/FASA's: 168,000
QF Bonus Points: 82,000
Shopping: 12,000
Credit Card Spend: 300,000
Car Rental: 8,000
Hotel: 40,000

My friend (acquaintance really!) Sid, plans to use the points to book three JASA's or at worst 2 JASA's and a WASA. (I can't see him getting 300,000 points on spend this year, he is way to careful with his money.) He always books 12 months in advance. (Well his secretary, PA is such a modern term, Ms Pugh does.) In effect Sid is only generating 10% of his points from paid QF products. (Always one for a good scam is Sid.) He is however very loyal to the Qantas Frequent flyer Program. Ms Pugh ensure he rents from Avis, shops at Woolworths (He likes the Every Day Rewards scheme.), buys his diesel from Caltex, stays at Holiday Inns, and uses his Amex card as much as possible. (He has even been known to buy some odd items from QF in flight duty free.)

Now Sid likes the finer things in life, sitting behind the wings is not for him. He has worked out that he can make his regular trips to the UK in J at the price of Y+ and it is sustainable. Our other friend, Mr Kerr, suggested that Sid is a bit unaustralian because he doesn't pay much to QF for his luxurious jet-setting travel. Although Sid, as a South African, took this as a compliment, he could see where Bill was coming from. Bill went almost as far as accusing Syd of driving the international arm of QF into the ground.

Sid asked Ms Pugh to gather a few pieces of information together and was shocked to see that QFI had lost over $200m last year. (Sid did worry that he may have been responsible for half a million of that in booze alone at the F lounge.) He contemplated sending a donation, but thought better of it when he saw how much you were paid Mr Joyce. He raised his eyebrows when he saw that QFF had made over $200m in profit. "How can that be" he gasped. "Surely they can't make all of that money from selling FF points at tiny amount each?"

Not known for deep thought, Sid mulled these numbers around in his alcohol shrunken brain over a glass of chateau Dan Murphy, and wondered if QFI and QFF were in someway interconnected.

What would happen if you, Mr Joyce, looked at Sid and said "he is not worthy, take those JASA's away from him." He'd be stuffed. He'd have to find another way to travel in comfort, and perhaps become loyal to another FF program. There would be no point in directing his hard earned FF points towards expensive classic awards. He'd have to consider one of those Middle Eastern carriers who is less expensive than BA or QF. Then he might have to change his credit card, hotel, and shopping habits. :shock: He wouldn't be using many of the QF benefits, but then he wouldn't be collecting any QFF points either. There was a balance to be had somewhere. If Sid was to pursue his QFF points he needed to be able to spend them appropriately. So "without QFI, QFF would struggle and vice versa" he mused.

Sid poured himself a Bells 10 year old blended whisky, (Did I say he was cheap?) and thought some more.

"This running an international airline lark seemed quite complicated. Lots of carriers with better service but lower cost bases. How does QF compete with them."

He recounted some of his QF experiences when The CSM didn't bother to say hello, and when the FA's were too busy chatting in the galley to help him out with a drink. "If only QF would empower their staff" he thought out loud. Happy staff makes for a happy flying experience. He really would prefer to fly QF, but Ms Pugh controls the purse strings tightly.

"If only QF FA's were like the nice CX ones." (Mind you if QF has a problem BA is on a very sticky wicket.)

He didn't like to admit it, but he really didn't mind paying a small premium over BA or CX if the product was right....but not over 20%!!

So I think what I am saying is that QFI and QFF would struggle to exist independently. Messing about with QFI will impact QFF.

Service needs to improve to differentiate from LCC

Make status special (By not giving it to everyone.)

I do concede that it is perhaps a lot more difficult than it appears. :-|

Yours Sincerely

TH
 
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Dear Mr Joyce,

So "without QFI, QFF would struggle and vice versa" he mused.

Agree 100%, QFd needs QFi and vice versa. Whilst QFi might be a "drain" on the company when looking at it from a purely number perspective, how many dom seats are sold because QFi exists? Would people be so happy to put all their eggs in one basket so to speak if all they could get was a transcon flight?

Messing around too much with QFi might make sense from a pure number's game, but when dealing with value customers (the sort who would typically fly QF) a pure number games always = bad for the company.
 
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