Dear Mr Joyce...

[harvyk]

Don't worry, your JASAs will become *class redemptions to anywhere involving a secondary airport.

For the purposes of this exercise, Bourke counts as a secondary airport for Sydney...

 

[Stuser]

For the purposes of this exercise, Bourke counts as a secondary airport for Sydney...

according to some people's aspirations, so does Canberra...... :evil:

 

[Justchecking]

Jet* business class Sydney - Frankfurt $2499**may land in Croatia

 

[harvyk]

according to some people's aspirations, so does Canberra...... :evil:

That's mainly Terry Snow who wants to be able to say Canberra International Airport with a straight face... No one else other than Mr Snow include the International part of CBR's name...
PS, don't tell JQ that CBR exists. I'm perfectly happy that all our QF options out of CBR are infact QF...

 

[jb747]

I was not advocating a drop in salary for the QF pilots, just don't kill the proverbial golden goose with outrageous claims !

Which outrageous claims are they??????

 

[Stuser]

That's mainly Terry Snow who wants to be able to say Canberra International Airport with a straight face... No one else other than Mr Snow include the International part of CBR's name...

I seem to recall that there was a flight to Fiji from Canberra a few years back....

PS, don't tell JQ that CBR exists. I'm perfectly happy that all our QF options out of CBR are infact QF...

I agree completely. However, it is a shame that CBR is a bit pricey to fly to compared to other cities in the vicinity. Mind you, if Jetstar ever did fly to CBR, would that make the remaining QF flights more expensive....?

 

[oz_mark]

For the purposes of this exercise, Bourke counts as a secondary airport for Sydney...

According to Qantas, so does Melbourne :mrgreen:

 

[mannej]

I have started to notice a few little things lately.

Qantas seem to be cutting out the small little things that make the difference. Just look at the cheese and crackers. According to the flight attendant that my parents spoke to on the way back from Melbourne, it is a common question as people do like the cheese and crackers. It almost may make up for a inedible meal.

The customer service seems to snub the every day public. I tried allocating seats for my parents on a partially filled A330 back from Melbourne. Mum wanted a window seat, but they could only select the last two seats in row 59 on EBM/N. Expert flyer did show a fair few seats as vacant, even after T-24. The Bronze consultant Barry was basically not interested. I thanked him for his time, and then used the status number, and my QF number. Answered in 2 minutes (not 22), and Sharon was happy to oblige, taking less than a minute to allocate two desirable seats. I could understand Barry's resistance if I was asking for an Op-Up or row 23, but not row 51. Again its the little things. Soon enough people will start to snub QF if they get negative service like that.

The other thing that I find with QF, is that recently the management seems to be more reactive more than anything. I guess they have been too reliant on the 380/787. However if it wasn't for Airbus' A330 offer, would they still be operating more 763 and 743's? Perhaps if someone had any ideas that the current fleet would be around for this long. I find the all premise of skybeds moot, as they are on the wrong times to counter DJ's EK A330 beds. 568/648 should have the Skybeds on them. That would impress the business travelers much more than Skybeds during the day.

From the outside (with no expertise), I feel that QF although their financial performance seems strong don't seem to know what direction they want to take. There is no flow with decisions made, and a lack of strategy (i.e fleet etc) in the past seem to be catching up to them.
I still think QF have the artillery to blow DJ away if they made the right decisions.

 

[connieguy]

I still think QF have the artillery to blow DJ away if they made the right decisions.

:?:

QF can't even get 3 pages of their web site aligned with the declared OW benefits for domestic Boarding at Convience for WPs and SGs nor put the hardware (1 Priority sign and 1 tape barrier) in place to make it happen at the domestic boarding gates.

Maybe it will all change for the better, from their FFers point of view, on 24 Aug, but maybe not.

 

[EmilyHoward]

It has been both interesting and a bit scary reading the 29 pages or so of this Thread. So far I would summarise that there are a great number of apparently unhappy and disappointed QFFs out there. Many of these are long term, regular, loyal and high status fliers.

Perhaps at this point we could take a step back, just for a minute or so, and look at things from a different angle. The world economy ... in one word um I would say (after some careful consideration) “stuffed” for now and a fair time ahead at least. The USA is as good as bankrupt and is likely to have its Triple A credit rating downgraded whether or not it raises its debt ceiling, the Chinese own a lot of USA debt, the PIIGS economies of Europe are also in severe strife and here in Australia it really isn’t that good unless you are in the mining industry or one level down from that. As for myself, I’m involved in a number or businesses and one of them is advising other business on cash flow problems, administration and Insolvency. We are always busy and despite the economy being talked up here in Australia, there is no let up in our workload currently. As for retail, we see a huge swing in the market from buying in shops to buying online which has already started and will grow at a geometric rate. (My tip here ... start a courier business) Australia is one of the best performing economies currently and things are still not that good here! There is just not that much money around to spend folks. We are going through hard times.

Now back to Qantas. JB was passed over for the top job and it seems from this thread that some think that he would have been better than AJ. We will never know except perhaps from analysing his performance at VA. So far he appears to have done well but let’s see if it continues after the “initial passion” has passed. If I had to pick from the two ... and I don’t know either of them personally... I would pick AJ hands down.

At Qantas, AJ is faced with an ageing fleet, a middle management which is very heavy on cost and airline staff who are paid in general much more money than similar staff in other airlines which are based overseas. How can you compete? You either have to get staff to take less money, which is very hard, if not impossible and/or slowly move to a cost base which is aligned with your competitors internationally whilst retaining your good staff, keeping them smiling and easing out staff who do not now fit. That is what he is trying to do. He comes from an accounting background and that can be seen by how he concentrates his time in certain specific areas, mostly to do with costs and revenues and not in the areas of customer care and staff team building. A problem I think AJ has is that he just doesn’t have the right people around him to help in these other areas. This is quite apparent from this thread which concentrates on poor and inconsistent service levels for customers and some happy and buoyant but generally sad staff on the planes. You do need to have the right team around you otherwise you can’t delegate and the result is what we are seeing. So, if I was AJ now I would spend a little time to get the right top level team around me; Use my Executive and Non-Executive Directors to help me get that right team. Have them earn their money! Once that is in place AJ can continue to concentrate on the areas he works best in and the customer service and staff morale will begin to improve. I have a list of matters in three priority grades I would deal with if I had got to this stage. Obviously mine would not be the same as AJs but the website would be one of the first! I would also build the Qantas Ambassador program. I would be hunting Cadel Evans right now I think.

I’m sure we probably all know this but customers on average complain somewhere between 8 and 11 times more than they complement. People like to grumble.

I’m not sure how many staff Qantas has but aren’t there some 7m Frequent flyers? Could all of us FFs perhaps paraphrase from one of the lines of a very old speech and ask ourselves ‘not what Qantas can do for us but rather what we can do for Qantas’. When I fly, even if the staff are unhappy I try my best to cheer them up. I always collect all my rubbish and leave my seat and the magazines clean and tidy. I don’t leave the little sink filled with water and I wipe around the sink. If we all helped it would be a lot better Qantas even from this moment onwards. When you next fly or are in the QP have a little think about that.

Let’s try and support Qantas and get it back as the best Australia has to offer in terms of flying.

EH

 

[drron]

I think you are spot on Emily.I am currently working in Mackay which should be booming as it is now mainly a mining town.but it isn't.since my last visit 12 months ago there have been many businesses closed,empty shops in the CBD and main mall.Sure they have had the floods but that is reasonably common here in Jan/Feb.The Australian economy is not going gangbusters-just better than the rest.
I like this-

I’m sure we probably all know this but customers on average complain somewhere between 8 and 11 times more than they complement. People like to grumble.

I’m not sure how many staff Qantas has but aren’t there some 7m Frequent flyers? Could all of us FFs perhaps paraphrase from one of the lines of a very old speech and ask ourselves ‘not what Qantas can do for us but rather what we can do for Qantas’. When I fly, even if the staff are unhappy I try my best to cheer them up. I always collect all my rubbish and leave my seat and the magazines clean and tidy. I don’t leave the little sink filled with water and I wipe around the sink. If we all helped it would be a lot better Qantas even from this moment onwards. When you next fly or are in the QP have a little think about that.

The more i smile the more people smile at me.Maybe they think I am a bit mad(I wont disagree) but I generally get better service,though more on AA than QF.
My New Years resolution this year was to praise someone at least once a week.It is amazing some of the reactions you get.
And I really dont want AJ's job-he is between a rock and a hard place.

 

[harvyk]

It has been both interesting and a bit scary reading the 29 pages or so of this Thread. So far I would summarise that there are a great number of apparently unhappy and disappointed QFFs out there. Many of these are long term, regular, loyal and high status fliers.

It's more we can see the direction it is taking and we do not like it. Some of the recent changes (which have minimal cost savings) are a big "FU" to some of the airlines loyal customers.

Perhaps at this point we could take a step back, just for a minute or so, and look at things from a different angle. The world economy ... in one word um I would say (after some careful consideration) “stuffed” for now and a fair time ahead at least. The USA is as good as bankrupt and is likely to have its Triple A credit rating downgraded whether or not it raises its debt ceiling, the Chinese own a lot of USA debt, the PIIGS economies of Europe are also in severe strife and here in Australia it really isn’t that good unless you are in the mining industry or one level down from that. As for myself, I’m involved in a number or businesses and one of them is advising other business on cash flow problems, administration and Insolvency. We are always busy and despite the economy being talked up here in Australia, there is no let up in our workload currently. As for retail, we see a huge swing in the market from buying in shops to buying online which has already started and will grow at a geometric rate. (My tip here ... start a courier business) Australia is one of the best performing economies currently and things are still not that good here! There is just not that much money around to spend folks. We are going through hard times.

No arguments from me there, those with money and power have really stuffed things up.

Now back to Qantas. JB was passed over for the top job and it seems from this thread that some think that he would have been better than AJ. We will never know except perhaps from analysing his performance at VA. So far he appears to have done well but let’s see if it continues after the “initial passion” has passed. If I had to pick from the two ... and I don’t know either of them personally... I would pick AJ hands down.

JB is turning DJ's traditional market right around. Whilst DJ is not there yet, this is the first time where we really could have an Ansett Mark 3 (without the financial ruin \ company collapse which happened to the first two). A second full service airline is something we need.

At Qantas, AJ is faced with an ageing fleet, a middle management which is very heavy on cost and airline staff who are paid in general much more money than similar staff in other airlines which are based overseas. How can you compete? You either have to get staff to take less money, which is very hard, if not impossible and/or slowly move to a cost base which is aligned with your competitors internationally whilst retaining your good staff, keeping them smiling and easing out staff who do not now fit. That is what he is trying to do. He comes from an accounting background and that can be seen by how he concentrates his time in certain specific areas, mostly to do with costs and revenues and not in the areas of customer care and staff team building. A problem I think AJ has is that he just doesn’t have the right people around him to help in these other areas. This is quite apparent from this thread which concentrates on poor and inconsistent service levels for customers and some happy and buoyant but generally sad staff on the planes. You do need to have the right team around you otherwise you can’t delegate and the result is what we are seeing. So, if I was AJ now I would spend a little time to get the right top level team around me; Use my Executive and Non-Executive Directors to help me get that right team. Have them earn their money! Once that is in place AJ can continue to concentrate on the areas he works best in and the customer service and staff morale will begin to improve. I have a list of matters in three priority grades I would deal with if I had got to this stage. Obviously mine would not be the same as AJs but the website would be one of the first!

AJ is faced with some interesting problems, but among the ageing fleet, middle management and all the other issues that legacy carriers have, they also have a very strong brand. That brand is QF's biggest asset, it's also the one asset they can not insure, and is the one asset which they are most likely to lose and it's the one asset they can not replace.

Money on the bottom line is great when looking at a quarter or annual figures. But after you've trashed the brand, trashed the loyalty and trashed the company to get those great figures then what? You won't have anything left to sell off to make next year a profitable one, and you can't call on your loyal customers to come to your rescue as you don't have any.

Don't get me wrong, bottom line is important, but it's not everything. Treating it as if it's the one and only important thing is a sure way to fail.

I would also build the Qantas Ambassador program. I would be hunting Cadel Evans right now I think.

Why? Name one time you've booked a flight because John Travolta is an ambassador. They are one of those touchy feely marketing exercises that marketing departments love, which has little or no effect on the bottom line.

I’m sure we probably all know this but customers on average complain somewhere between 8 and 11 times more than they complement. People like to grumble.

Sort of right, if a person has a bad experience they will tell roughly 10 people, if they have a good one they will tell roughly 3 people. But it also goes deeper than that, it's easier and cheaper to sell to an existing customer (by a factor of 10 from memory) than it is to try and win a new customer over. Thus 1 loyal customer is worth about 10 potential customers in terms of marketing effort which is required to win them over.

I’m not sure how many staff Qantas has but aren’t there some 7m Frequent flyers? Could all of us FFs perhaps paraphrase from one of the lines of a very old speech and ask ourselves ‘not what Qantas can do for us but rather what we can do for Qantas’. When I fly, even if the staff are unhappy I try my best to cheer them up. I always collect all my rubbish and leave my seat and the magazines clean and tidy. I don’t leave the little sink filled with water and I wipe around the sink. If we all helped it would be a lot better Qantas even from this moment onwards. When you next fly or are in the QP have a little think about that.

Let’s try and support Qantas and get it back as the best Australia has to offer in terms of flying.
EH

With 7m frequent flyers, how many are QFF's simply because it came with wollies everyday rewards membership? Back in the bad old days you used to have to purchase membership, thus even a NB had made a financial commitment to be a loyal customer. These days a NB could have never steped on a plane in their life and yet they are a "Frequent Flyer". The whole idea of "not what Qantas can do for us but rather what we can do for Qantas" I really don't get. I paid them money to fly me from A to B with a level of service. They are not my friends, they are a vendor and I am a customer, nothing less nothing more.

That said I won't be an coughhole towards them or their staff, but on that token QF are not flying me from A to B out of the goodness of their own heart.

Also why should I support QF? I am loyal to them because I like the company and I like what they where (and to a degree are), but if they change too much for the worse and \ or show me that my loyalty means nothing to them I will have no problems changing carriers.

 

[Moopere]

The more i smile the more people smile at me.Maybe they think I am a bit mad(I wont disagree) but I generally get better service...

Very important point. I tend to get really great service from QF, at pretty much all levels of the business. This seems to be in stark contrast to many of the reports in this and other recent threads. I'm guessing there is a strong random-eske element to this, different day, different staff, different mood, but I tell you what, I think a lot of it is to do with your own attitude, as you say above.

Be pleasant and have some patience, and smile or at least have a reasonably bright outlook. People seem to respond to this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not by nature obsequious, but you can gently get what you want/need with perseverance and patience without being aggressive or moody.

 

[rechoboam]

Very important point. I tend to get really great service from QF, at pretty much all levels of the business. This seems to be in stark contrast to many of the reports in this and other recent threads. I'm guessing there is a strong random-eske element to this, different day, different staff, different mood, but I tell you what, I think a lot of it is to do with your own attitude, as you say above.

Be pleasant and have some patience, and smile or at least have a reasonably birght outlook. People seem to respond to this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not by nature obsequious, but you can gently get what you want/need with perseverance and patience without being aggressive or moody.

I see your point but if I saw it as my job to cheer up rude, apathetic or grumpy staff in Australian service industries I might as well become a psychologist as that would be a full time task.

 

[connieguy]

The whole idea of "not what Qantas can do for us but rather what we can do for Qantas" I really don't get. I paid them money to fly me from A to B with a level of service. They are not my friends, they are a vendor and I am a customer, nothing less nothing more.

That said I won't be an coughhole towards them or their staff, but on that token QF are not flying me from A to B out of the goodness of their own heart.

Also why should I support QF? I am loyal to them because I like the company and I like what they where (and to a degree are), but if they change too much for the worse and \ or show me that my loyalty means nothing to them I will have no problems changing carriers.

You got that spot on. Oh BTW I do clean the sink and the vanity after I use it, put the toilet seat down, tidy the seat back, clean the floor around my feet, put the blankets / pillows / headsets on the seat and always try to have a nice word and smile for the FAs and ground staff.

 

[Moopere]

I see your point but if I saw it as my job to cheer up rude, apathetic or grumpy staff in Australian service industries I might as well become a psychologist as that would be a full time task.

Oh sure, granted. I'm not for a moment saying that its my mission in life to make grumpy people see the light. I have, overall, a very dim view of the Australian service industries ability to provide service. Still, for whatever reason, my QF experience has been medium to good and overall I'm pretty happy (not to say I wouldn't appreciate priority boarding ... always room for improvement).

Perhaps patience and a smile from me does nothing and I'm just not doing enough flying to hit the bad experiences on a regular basis?

 

[TonyHancock]

Oh sure, granted. I'm not for a moment saying that its my mission in life to make grumpy people see the light. I have, overall, a very dim view of the Australian service industries ability to provide service. Still, for whatever reason, my QF experience has been medium to good and overall I'm pretty happy (not to say I wouldn't appreciate priority boarding ... always room for improvement).

Perhaps patience and a smile from me does nothing and I'm just not doing enough flying to hit the bad experiences on a regular basis?

I have to say that on the whole my face to face experience of QF customer service has been pretty good. I too adopt the smile and try to have a laugh and joke with staff.

 

[EmilyHoward]

I have read with interest the feedback on my last post and taken note of some very good points made.

As for John Travolta I think he has been used quite well by Qantas, however, remember he is a pilot himself. If I was going to use Cadel Evans I would certainly use him as an Ambassador in a quite different manner.

It's also nice to know that there are other QFFs out there who attempt to make staff on Q (and others) happy.

EH

 

[medhead]

Great points and reasoning. But John travolta is only a pilot in the same way that I'm an actor (as I drama on sometimes) or a road cyclist. It's his hobby nothing more.

 

[harvyk]

I have read with interest the feedback on my last post and taken note of some very good points made.

As for John Travolta I think he has been used quite well by Qantas, however, remember he is a pilot himself. If I was going to use Cadel Evans I would certainly use him as an Ambassador in a quite different manner.

It's also nice to know that there are other QFFs out there who attempt to make staff on Q (and others) happy.

EH

I think JT has been used in an interesting way, but that just it, it's an interesting way. I don't think they have sold that many more seats because of the relationship.

The things that will sell or not sell seats is me listening to a friend at a BBQ stating they are looking at booking a trip to Europe and asking for hints and tips from me because I fly from time to time. If I have a bad experience with an airline I'm very likely to say "you know, my last Qantas flight was terrible" From that moment on John Travolta and Mark Webber have a very big job to do to convince my friends that Qantas is a better choice and to ignore their friend.

It could have been that my last QF flight the food was terrible, but based on that one thing alone they have lost a sale, and the sad thing is that it'll never show up as a problem on the bottom line... They will see that by changing catering companies they just saved $3 on the cost of my meal, and to them that is a good thing. They don't see the $20,000 which is now going to another airline.