Definition of a Near Miss

[ozdunker]

Just got off flight from Hobart to Sydney QF1020.

At 11.50am as the co-pilot was given announcement about soon to be landing (30mins to go) I looked out the right side window and was like damn thats getting close, a plane with a vapor trial was climbing past us and in the other direction. Would have been within 500 metres at a guess. I have never seen another aircraft this close before.

Is this normal for this flight?

 

[SeatBackForward]

A Near Miss. Isn't that when they actually collide? "look, they nearly missed"

But in seriousness..what was the altitude seperation?

 

[munitalP]

A Near Miss. Isn't that when they actually collide? "look, they nearly missed"

But in seriousness..what was the altitude seperation?

isn't 500M minimum vertical separation?

 

[ozdunker]

they crossed right through our altitude. We were steady, they climbed right past us.

 

[UP4014]

It can be very hard to judge a distance in the air or at sea.

 

[ozdunker]

For perspective we landed in Sydney from the south on one of the runways, there was another plane ready to take off on an adjacent runway. The plane on that adjacent runway looked smaller than the one that flew past us, ie smaller as in further away.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Odd that they werent taking off in the same direction that you were landing into.

 

[opusman]

The easiest thing is to check news.com.au - if there was a "near miss" involving a Qantas plane it would definitely be reported there

 

[serfty]

Flying around the USA (Especially the NE) and parts of Europe, nearby vapour trails are a fact of life.

 

[markis10]

Humans are very poor judges when it comes to speed and position, a climbing aircraft would have been separated laterally rather than vertically in the case, unless vertical separation was already established, in which case it would be 1000 ft if they have RVSM approval which is a probable yes.

 

[markis10]

isn't 500M minimum vertical separation?

Metric - pfft - not in aviation!

they crossed right through our altitude. We were steady, they climbed right past us.

Would have been radar lateral separation then, you were probably abeam Marulan at that time. (I used to work on that radar sector in the Sydney AACC). Its possible they were given a "report sighting and passing" climb clearance.

Odd that they werent taking off in the same direction that you were landing into.

Not odd, HBA-SYD tracks up the coast with most departures ex SYD going via WOL or thereabouts, so its a natural head to head.

 

[ozdunker]

Cheers Markis for the explanation.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Not odd, HBA-SYD tracks up the coast with most departures ex SYD going via WOL or thereabouts, so its a natural head to head.

Don't ATC try to get them taking off and landing in the same direction? (ie. into the wind?)

 

[markis10]

For the record it was a RAAF BBJ you saw heading into CBR, probably with the PM onboard.

 

[ozdunker]

lol I was trying to remember what airline it was, but I couldnt place it, all i remember was silver.

 

[samh004]

For the record it was a RAAF BBJ you saw heading into CBR, probably with the PM onboard.

Did the 'pass' show up on WebTrak, or something similar that showed the actual distance apart the two aircraft were?

 

[spudseamus]

For the record it was a RAAF BBJ you saw heading into CBR, probably with the PM onboard.

what a miss indeed !!

 

[markis10]

Did the 'pass' show up on WebTrak, or something similar that showed the actual distance apart the two aircraft were?

Historical look at Flightradar24 shows the RAAF jet in the right place at the right time, I am guessing the QF flight was a 734 which wont show as they dont have ADSB.

 

[AaronBradford]

Odd that they werent taking off in the same direction that you were landing into.

On top of what markis10 said, SODPROPs (as it's abbreviated) is quite common in Sydney. Here's an excerpt from a CASA document:

10.4.8 Simultaneous Opposite Direction Parallel Runway Operations

10.4.8.1 Simultaneous Opposite Direction Parallel Runway Operations (SODPROPS)
may be conducted subject to the following conditions:
(a) runway centrelines are separated by a minimum of 860 M;
(b) operations are conducted in meteorological conditions equal to, or
better than, the minimum radar vectoring level, or the lowest minimum
commencement level for instrument approaches to the arrival runway,
whichever is lower. (without prior approval, the minima shall not be less
than cloud base 2,500 FT and visibility 8 KM, in the arrival and
departure sector concerned);
(c) traffic information is passed to conflicting aircraft;
(d) the departure runway course diverges by 15 degrees from the approach
course to the other runway.

 

[The Rok]

Answer to the OP title:

n.

1. A narrowly avoided collision involving two or more aircraft, ships, boats, or motor vehicles.
2. A missile strike that is extremely close to but not directly on target.
3. Something that fails by a very narrow margin: Her campaign for the Senate was a near miss.

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