Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qantas

[AnonymousCoward]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I am more important than you.

The most basic question one can answer can an airline sell a premium only service? Highly unlikely and the ones doing it or have done it are failures with the exception of SQ on one route.

Economy an airline can survive without premium but not the other way around.

Of course.

Except those airlines are the ones you refuse to fly on: Jetstar, RyanAir etc. Plus a few other LCCs like AirAsia that you might agree to fly on.

They are not full-service airlines with status, lounges and so on. They manage to survive on economy-only by turning airtravel by applying manufacturing mass production principles to air travel: everyone gets a standard service, and if you want extras you pay.

SQ flies a business only service between SIN and JFK. BA flies a business only service between LON and JFK. BA (now) flies a similar service between ORY and NWK.

The suits that are paying expensive fares are on the routes between JFK-LHR/FRA, and LHR/FRA-HKG, and other financial hubs. I'm not sure the small plane to fly those routes has been invented yet. Except for private jets. Maybe get in touch with NYCGuy...

 

[gumpy]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

everyone is performing weird and wacky calculations.

the obvious answer is that QF feel that Premium Cabin is more valuable as it's reasonably obvious in the recent program change. I believe them too, i'm sure they've run 1001 models to determine this to provide incentive to drive the behaviour...

Edit: I'd just like to add that I fall into the majority Y category =/

Also I'd like to add that I'm fine with it. If I were an airline company I'd value the WP who fly J more than the WP who fly Y. BUT WP Y are still very important to the business... just less so than the J flyers...

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

the obvious answer is that QF feel that Premium Cabin is more valuable as it's reasonably obvious in the recent program change. I believe them too, i'm sure they've run 1001 models to determine this to provide incentive to drive the behaviour...

Indeed, I am sure the membership base has been sliced and diced and multiple scenarios run.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Sorry, I must be missing something. :-| I took this to be a technical analysis of the costs and such. I really hope it isn't another I'm worth more than you thread. :-|

Let's hope not. No one person is more important than anyone else (including Chairmans Lounge) regardless of the profit they make QF or any other airline. To believe that is totally naive.

I really don't think any type of passenger is more important. A mix is needed. Not getting the bums of the seats in the back on cheap fares is just as bad as not getting bums up the front.

Exactly.[/quote]
I do not really know the breakdown but let's just say that QF sells 10 BHK class airfares on a SYD-BNE and 100 deep discount red e-deals. Do away with red e-deals and perhaps 20-30 of those people would pay more for an airfare while the rest will look for alternative carriers or not bother to fly at all. If you do this on the 20 or so SYD-BNE flights a day then each one of these flights is going to have 70-80 less passengers, less crew and also make less revenue and more than likely less profit as you have a lot of fixed costs.

Now there are a number of people who have explained yield management in detail on this forum yet there are still a few selfish, gnorant AFF members who think they are more important than everyone else because their company has purchased flexible airfares for them. Who cares?

Let me tell you there is no way I am going to pay QF upwards of $220 for an S class airfare and higher on a SYD-BNE just to have flexibility. I do not need flexibilty but you know what? On a red e-deal I am just as important as a person on a full flexible airfare.

In fact the people on flexible airfares should be thanking the ones on deep discount red e-deals as we are the ones that help maintain the schedules of today. Take us away and there will be a lot less aircraft, less flights and then your flexible airfare is going to mean squat as you will have little choice to move. But go ahead thinking you are more important....

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Now there are a number of people who have explained yield management in detail on this forum yet there are still a few selfish, gnorant AFF members who think they are more important than everyone else because their company has purchased flexible airfares for them. Who cares?

Who are these people?

I don't think I'm more important than anyone else. I'm just stating (and others have stated) that people who fly up the front are more important to QF (and QF seems to think the same, based on the way that these people are rewarded with extra points and SCs)

On a red e-deal I am just as important as a person on a full flexible airfare.

I think this is where the source of confusion comes in.

There are probably only a handful of people who buy 20 F return airfares a year between SYD-LHR on QF. Each of those people, individually, is important to QF, because they are hard to replace. So they will be looked after at an individual level.

The many people who fly down the back are also important, but less so as an individual, because it's far easier to replace one of those people if someone decided to defect to DJ/SQ/NZ/whatever.

In fact the people on flexible airfares should be thanking the ones on deep discount red e-deals as we are the ones that help maintain the schedules of today.

It's a mutual mix. If there were not J/F class passengers, there would be no need for F/J lounges, upgrade awards etc. You'd effectively end up flying on Jetstar.

 

[Jobu]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Some of the posts in this thread (and others) are somewhat disappointing... so many generalisations being made, particularly about corporate v non-corporate flyers, funded v self-funded flyers, economy v premium flyers, tall poppy syndromes v snobs.

The answer to the generalisations and stereo-types is that neither of any match up can be credibly argued to be more loyal, more superior, more worthy, more deserving of recognition or more pitied.

 

[Jobu]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

And back on topic, this interview with Branson highlights why Virgin Australia is so keen to break Qantas' hold of the corporate and premium cabin market:

KGB: Richard Branson | Kohler & Bartholomeusz | Interview | Business Spectator

Couple of interesting quotes:

Richard Branson: At the moment Qantas have been able to use their $1.5 billion of income from their business class passengers to subsidise Jetstar and their economy class, and we would like to take $300 million–$400 million of that away from them and put it to our own purposes.

Richard Branson: Two weeks from now we’ll be putting our new planes in the fleet onto Perth with 48 business class seats and fantastic new economy class configuration. That’s one of the most profitable routes for Qantas, you know, Perth to Melbourne, Perth to Sydney, and I think we’ll be really testing whether this new concept is going to work based on how things go in Perth. Obviously Qantas have put on extra capacity and are trying to do everything they can to fight back, but I think that it is in the interests of every company in Australia to see us do well because Qantas have had a complete monopoly on companies. They’ve been able to charge what they want, they’ve had no incentive to improve the quality of their business product, and therefore I think we will find companies will give us our fair share of business travellers, like they do with Virgin Atlantic and with Virgin America. A lot of people like the spirit of Virgin. If we can give them the comfort of the seat, give them the frequent flyer programmes and give them decent lounges, then a lot of people will switch over to Virgin.

This is not just good news for Virgin flyers, it's good news for all flyers in Aus.

 

[samiam]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Who are these people?

I thought we were about to have a Margaret Thatcher/George Negus moment...

 

[jaffa]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I have to stongly disagree with the statement that J domestic cabins don't fly with paid seats, that most are upgrades, awards and ODU's.

I know, because l am one of those "paying" flyers. Am l stupid? probally.
Do l give a rat's, nope!
I do it because l can!
And i'm happy to pay the premium and like to spend my money my way.
Whilst l save money on many other things, that l am happy to be frugal about, when l fly it's a different matter.
It's my little indulgence.

There is no difference in me paying for flight status up front, to you earning status over the long haul and enjoying the same privledges.
The difference between us, is l get to move my spend wherever l like and enjoy my paid status from get go and you are stuck with your earned status choice for the long haul and find your programe choice limits you to it's own restrictions. That is of course if you rely on your programe for upgrades, awards ect for your premium status flying.

I know many others that choose to travel just like l do.

As to Bransons comments.

Richard Branson: "Two weeks from now we’ll be putting our new planes in the fleet onto Perth with 48 business class seats and fantastic new economy class configuration. That’s one of the most profitable routes for Qantas, you know, Perth to Melbourne, Perth to Sydney, and I think we’ll be really testing whether this new concept is going to work based on how things go in Perth. Obviously Qantas have put on extra capacity and are trying to do everything they can to fight back, but I think that it is in the interests of every company in Australia to see us do well because Qantas have had a complete monopoly on companies. They’ve been able to charge what they want, they’ve had no incentive to improve the quality of their business product, and therefore I think we will find companies will give us our fair share of business travellers, like they do with Virgin Atlantic and with Virgin America. A lot of people like the spirit of Virgin. If we can give them the comfort of the seat, give them the frequent flyer programmes and give them decent lounges, then a lot of people will switch over to Virgin".

I find it interesting that Virgins J prices are not that different to QF's even with Bransons huff and puff.

To me Virgin has not caused the Business (J)market to become more compeditive, They have in fact just re-enforced the status quo.
Yes l know there are some minor short term benifits, but these are more about sales pitch and not long term customer gain.

 

[Jobu]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I find it interesting that Virgins J prices are not that different to QF's even with Bransons huff and puff.

To me Virgin has not caused the Business (J)market to become more compeditive, They have in fact just re-enforced the status quo.
Yes l know there are some minor short term benifits, but these are more about sales pitch and not long term customer gain.

Even if the price is identical, they will have to differentiate from each other somehow, and more choice is better than no choice. Unless you think they are going to break the law and collude?

 

[JohnK]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Who are these people?

They know what they are.

You'd effectively end up flying on Jetstar.

Not if I can help it!

 

[russ]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I'm flying twice a week and paying more than 4x what the people sitting up the back are paying. However, I'm not occupying 4x the space or imbibing 4x the value of food or drink, and not 4x heavier, so QF is making a lot more out of me than them.

Doesn't that mean I'm worth more to QF than the people down the back?

 

[Robert K]

I'm flying twice a week and paying more than 4x what the people sitting up the back are paying. However, I'm not occupying 4x the space or imbibing 4x the value of food or drink, and not 4x heavier, so QF is making a lot more out of me than them.

Doesn't that mean I'm worth more to QF than the people down the back?

Yes. Jesus I need to type atleast 10 characters

 

[ozmille]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I'm flying twice a week and paying more than 4x what the people sitting up the back are paying. However, I'm not occupying 4x the space or imbibing 4x the value of food or drink, and not 4x heavier, so QF is making a lot more out of me than them.

Doesn't that mean I'm worth more to QF than the people down the back?

You also get 4 times the status credits... We should find somebody that works in yield to get the answer to this... (of there is a definite answer to this)

 

[Robert K]

They couldn't release that information, could they?

 

[ozmille]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

They couldn't release that information, could they?

Maybe off the record... The other issue I can see is that I can requal Platinum for AUD7000 in J travel. Is this more valuable then someone that does 100's of segments?

 

[samiam]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I'm flying twice a week and paying more than 4x what the people sitting up the back are paying. However, I'm not occupying 4x the space or imbibing 4x the value of food or drink, and not 4x heavier, so QF is making a lot more out of me than them.

Doesn't that mean I'm worth more to QF than the people down the back?

Only 3.9 x

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

You also get 4 times the status credits... We should find somebody that works in yield to get the answer to this... (of there is a definite answer to this)

But not 4 x the number of points!

Someone getting to platinum by using discount economy tickets will, in general, have earned more points than someone getting there by business tickets.

 

[gumpy]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

But not 4 x the number of points!

Someone getting to platinum by using discount economy tickets will, in general, have earned more points than someone getting there by business tickets.

careful... you might cause a revolt with the J flyers...

 

[Gorbo]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I think what a lot of posters are forgetting is the cost to Qantas. I understand that a lot of discount y passengers and fully paid y passengers that are platinum are disappointed with the recent changes but i want to point out a very important point that has not been mentioned.

1. If you do 50 segments in Y or discount y this would likely result in a large amount of F or domestic business lounge visits. This costs money to Qantas and when you are sitting on a very low margin ticket anyway the few beers and food that you consume could actually turn your "loyal business" into a loss making business for Qantas.

This is in contrast to 3-4 visits from the equivalent J or F paying customer.

These lounges would cost an awful lot to run for Qantas and i understand the frustration as y and discount y are loyal but with these lounge visits Qantas is probably losing money on your "loyalty". It does also impact the experience of J and F passengers(In another post a paying F customer had to eat her meal off her lap).

In the end Qantas is a business and Qantas will reward the customers that it is making the most money off, this will hopefully and is their intention encourage people into these higher margin fares. i Fear discount Y and Y passengers although you are loyal your lounge visits are currently costing Qantas too much money and you will continue to see your benefits eroded in the future.

The best thing for all FF and for Qantas would be to require all status tiers a second requirement that 50% of all SC be earned on QF metal for that tier
eg: 1200 for platinum of which 600 must be on Qantas.

This would remove all the people that really are just taking advantage of QF, free up the lounges and give better benefits to all, then Im sure Qantas will be happy to give anytime access back and might also be happy to make a loss but thank the loyalty of the discount and fully paid y passengers. But right now it is costing them to much money. When Qantas fixes this problem the true loyal customers will see increased benefits and much better "enhancements" then what have been received over the last few years.

anyway my 2 cents