Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qantas

[dfcatch]

I think what a lot of posters are forgetting is the cost to Qantas. I understand that a lot of discount y passengers and fully paid y passengers that are platinum are disappointed with the recent changes but i want to point out a very important point that has not been mentioned.

1. If you do 50 segments in Y or discount y this would likely result in a large amount of F or domestic business lounge visits. This costs money to Qantas and when you are sitting on a very low margin ticket anyway the few beers and food that you consume could actually turn your "loyal business" into a loss making business for Qantas.

This is in contrast to 3-4 visits from the equivalent J or F paying customer.

These lounges would cost an awful lot to run for Qantas and i understand the frustration as y and discount y are loyal but with these lounge visits Qantas is probably losing money on your "loyalty". It does also impact the experience of J and F passengers(In another post a paying F customer had to eat her meal off her lap).

In the end Qantas is a business and Qantas will reward the customers that it is making the most money off, this will hopefully and is their intention encourage people into these higher margin fares. i Fear discount Y and Y passengers although you are loyal your lounge visits are currently costing Qantas too much money and you will continue to see your benefits eroded in the future.

The best thing for all FF and for Qantas would be to require all status tiers a second requirement that 50% of all SC be earned on QF metal for that tier
eg: 1200 for platinum of which 600 must be on Qantas.

This would remove all the people that really are just taking advantage of QF, free up the lounges and give better benefits to all, then Im sure Qantas will be happy to give anytime access back and might also be happy to make a loss but thank the loyalty of the discount and fully paid y passengers. But right now it is costing them to much money. When Qantas fixes this problem the true loyal customers will see increased benefits and much better "enhancements" then what have been received over the last few years.

anyway my 2 cents

1/ You'll find that an individual visit to a lounge by a customer on a deep discount Y ticket won't be costing too much incrementally.

And if the F lounge - then there is substantial profit even if on a discount fare.

(there really aren't that many JQ35 runs).

2/ Your theory applies just as equally to those who are SG. So unless QF adjusted the program in the same direction for both levels, then the argument falls over.

3/ I and others have suggested several times that the minimum QF flight requirement for platinum should be say 16-20 flights rather than the existing 4.

4/ Don't forget that those earning SC from other airlines including YUPPS are sending revenue to QF. AA pays QF on a commercial arrangement for cross-FFP earnings. Just as QF would pay AA per lounge visit in the AC by a QFF member. Same goes across the alliance.

5/ Of course the business case plays a part - that's why QF have structured SC earnings depending on your fare class.
If QF were genuinely losing money on these flyers then they would adjust the earnings table accordingly.
(Don't get any ideas Red Roo)!!!

 

[gumpy]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I think what a lot of posters are forgetting is the cost to Qantas. I understand that a lot of discount y passengers and fully paid y passengers that are platinum are disappointed with the recent changes but i want to point out a very important point that has not been mentioned.

1. If you do 50 segments in Y or discount y this would likely result in a large amount of F or domestic business lounge visits. This costs money to Qantas and when you are sitting on a very low margin ticket anyway the few beers and food that you consume could actually turn your "loyal business" into a loss making business for Qantas.

This is in contrast to 3-4 visits from the equivalent J or F paying customer.

These lounges would cost an awful lot to run for Qantas and i understand the frustration as y and discount y are loyal but with these lounge visits Qantas is probably losing money on your "loyalty". It does also impact the experience of J and F passengers(In another post a paying F customer had to eat her meal off her lap).

In the end Qantas is a business and Qantas will reward the customers that it is making the most money off, this will hopefully and is their intention encourage people into these higher margin fares. i Fear discount Y and Y passengers although you are loyal your lounge visits are currently costing Qantas too much money and you will continue to see your benefits eroded in the future.

The best thing for all FF and for Qantas would be to require all status tiers a second requirement that 50% of all SC be earned on QF metal for that tier
eg: 1200 for platinum of which 600 must be on Qantas.

This would remove all the people that really are just taking advantage of QF, free up the lounges and give better benefits to all, then Im sure Qantas will be happy to give anytime access back and might also be happy to make a loss but thank the loyalty of the discount and fully paid y passengers. But right now it is costing them to much money. When Qantas fixes this problem the true loyal customers will see increased benefits and much better "enhancements" then what have been received over the last few years.

anyway my 2 cents

I think you're spot on with some of your comments. Some of the red-e deals out there compete at the LCC level and QF really musn't be making too much money on it... then you jump in the lounge for some beer and spirits... or you jump into the Flounge get a massage and a 3 course meal...

Also though I am a benefactor of the AA F Dom flights I think QF should do something about these. I believe this has devalued WP more than anything else. People that fly backwards and forwards over a week in the US shouldn't be treated like frequent flyers that do 50+ flights with QF a year. QF will make virtually no money off the AA sc runners...

 

[dfcatch]

I think you're spot on with some of your comments. Some of the red-e deals out there compete at the LCC level and QF really musn't be making too much money on it... then you jump in the lounge for some beer and spirits... or you jump into the Flounge get a massage and a 3 course meal...

Also though I am a benefactor of the AA F Dom flights I think QF should do something about these. I believe this has devalued WP more than anything else. People that fly backwards and forwards over a week in the US shouldn't be treated like frequent flyers that do 50+ flights with QF a year. QF will make virtually no money off the AA sc runners...

Gumpy, you forget a cpl of things:

1/ An AA status runner that gets the status by AA (for which QF still gets paid), and then doesn't fly QF regularly, isn't consuming much by virtue of his/her lack of visits.

2/ If they do a run on AA, and then do consume regular lounge visits, that means they are ALSO flying QF substantially. And they would have to be damn lucky if ALL their flights were at super-uber-ridiculously cheap red e-deals. (which incidentally don't really exist from CNS).

3/ QF are masters of yield management, and they know exactly what they're doing when they release cheap seats (that usually aren't that cheap). I doubt they are actually losing money, and if a tiny margin, then again, they have factored in the business case to these fares.

4/ The whole point of the loyalty program is to entice you to keep flying QF and spending as much as you can. You won't always be able to pick up a red Edeal, and besides, QF would still rather having you flying QF cheap, than DJ.

5/ AA YUPP runs aren't QF's problem. They are AA's. AA (or BA/CX/etc) pay QF per SC. It's AA who is paying top dollar for QF F SC's whilst not making much from the original fare.

6/ QF could easily increase the minimum segment earn to say 16 or 20 QF flights and this wouldn't affect most genuine WP QF metal flyers.

 

[Archphoto]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I'd be interested to hear what the actual amount some discount Y WP frequent flyers spend in a year. With sale fares going up and down, they probably spend more than we might at first think.

Is there anyone out there who wants to let us know what their yearly budget is? Number of flights flown and SC earn would be interesting to hear too. I'd like to hear form the Premium flyers on this too, so we can make a real spend comparison.

Whilst I don't have the figures for this year at hand, from previous years, at one point the team I was travelling with was spending in the region of 200K - 300K per year on flying for 3 - 2x Discount Y & 1 J (80% of their flights).

Although I did calculate that 2008 was a year spent flying OS (and on the road) 300 days out of that year; those other 65 days were spread over 2008 like a dogs breakfast - a day here, 3 days there - wow I think I even got 2 weeks at one stage!:mrgreen:

We spent countless hours in the air and I reached WP for the first time about 4 months into my renewed SG status. I kept WP for 3 years, and missed out on partner status 2 out of those 3 years by 150SCs each time.

I had one Op-Up during that time - the year before my WP expired (December 2009), and never had a points upgrade honoured, ever.

To keep that status flying -Y is tough: I flew back to AU on a few occasions for a day before flying out again long-haul. (In on a Friday, Saturday home, out 6am Sunday.) Clients don't like to pay any more than they have to and would rather you spent a day in your own home than put you up overnight at a hotel and cutting the flight time (and body wear & tear factor) for you.

Obviously the J flyer reached WP a lot quicker, retained easier and garnered the partner Gold extremely quickly as well ( got his about 3 months into his WP status, and continued to do so up until last year, when he had to fly -Y on *all* flights.

It's tough to do, and we chose QF over other airlines as we had SG status and baggage allowance etc that assists with our job immensely.

The little touches that WP gives is welcomed, and believe me when you fly as much I have in that cramped Y cabin, being rewarded for my loyalty to QF is *very* appreciated.

Seems a great pity that that same loyalty doesn't appear to be going both ways any more. . . . .

 

[gumpy]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Gumpy, you forget a cpl of things:

1/ An AA status runner that gets the status by AA (for which QF still gets paid), and then doesn't fly QF regularly, isn't consuming much by virtue of his/her lack of visits.

2/ If they do a run on AA, and then do consume regular lounge visits, that means they are ALSO flying QF substantially. And they would have to be damn lucky if ALL their flights were at super-uber-ridiculously cheap red e-deals. (which incidentally don't really exist from CNS).

5/ AA YUPP runs aren't QF's problem. They are AA's. AA (or BA/CX/etc) pay QF per SC. It's AA who is paying top dollar for QF F SC's whilst not making much from the original fare.

6/ QF could easily increase the minimum segment earn to say 16 or 20 QF flights and this wouldn't affect most genuine WP QF metal flyers.

For the first two points my concern is when they spend 1-2k and get WP for QF whilst in the states. It is a problem for QF when that person comes back to Aus and uses things like the flounge on a red-e deal which you pointed out is well managed so maybe the risk isn't as great as I first thought. But purely from a profitability perspective these people can't be very profitable...


Yeah agreed a genuine QFF wouldn't be affected by a 16-20 segment requirement. Maybe they should.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

3/ I and others have suggested several times that the minimum QF flight requirement for platinum should be say 16-20 flights rather than the existing 4.

I think the minimum flight requirement should be the same for everyone not just discriminating against Platinum.

So if new minimum flight requirement is 16 flights then it should be 16 flights for everyone. Personally I believe the minimum flight requirement of 4 is way too generous. Perhaps something like 12 flights is a much better indication of loyalty to achieve any status. And yes I know my comment is going to anger overseas QFFers and Silver and Gold who do not do that much flying. But tough luck.

I think you're spot on with some of your comments. Some of the red-e deals out there compete at the LCC level and QF really musn't be making too much money on it... then you jump in the lounge for some beer and spirits... or you jump into the Flounge get a massage and a 3 course meal...

Let's not get too carried away with these type of comments. My red e-deals SYD-BNE are up to around $79 each way and that is nowhere neat LCC prices.

What you should be worried about is that Qantas Club members and Gold and above who purchase 1c Jetstar airfares and then use the QF lounges. And also the next F lounge run end of July on JQ35 with airfares of ~$25.

Now that is a joke and leave the Platinums who travel on red QF e-deals alone. I/we have lost more than enough recently....

 

[samiam]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

And also the next F lounge run end of July on JQ35 with airfares of ~$25.

John that is a gross overstatement! I am only paying 0.87 cents for that F Lounge run, having redeemed a $25 JQ voucher.

However, I might add, QF earn a fair whack from both my personal and work travel budgets.

 

[gumpy]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Let's not get too carried away with these type of comments. My red e-deals SYD-BNE are up to around $79 each way and that is nowhere neat LCC prices.

What you should be worried about is that Qantas Club members and Gold and above who purchase 1c Jetstar airfares and then use the QF lounges. And also the next F lounge run end of July on JQ35 with airfares of ~$25.

Now that is a joke and leave the Platinums who travel on red QF e-deals alone. I/we have lost more than enough recently....

Yeah ok, I won't, I'm not saying take red-e deals away.. hehe it's the only way I fly... except for the DONE4's...

 

[dfcatch]

John that is a gross overstatement! I am only paying 0.87 cents for that F Lounge run, having redeemed a $25 JQ voucher.

However, I might add, QF earn a fair whack from both my personal and work travel budgets.

It will cost me at least $169 CNS-SYD on the cheapest red edeal I can find plus the $25 price match, plus getting back to cairns.

Not sure I can consume that much worth of Taittinger and still be permitted on the plane

 

[JohnK]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

John that is a gross overstatement! I am only paying 0.87 cents for that F Lounge run, having redeemed a $25 JQ voucher.

However, I might add, QF earn a fair whack from both my personal and work travel budgets.

I am sorry. I do remember your post the other day.

Makes my comment even reasonable....

 

[TonyHancock]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

It will cost me at least $169 CNS-SYD on the cheapest red edeal I can find plus the $25 price match, plus getting back to cairns.

Not sure I can consume that much worth of Taittinger and still be permitted on the plane

Pretty certain I can, and I'm not a champagne fan.

 

[Fantic125]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

Pretty certain I can, and I'm not a champagne fan.

Yep, me too.

If you do a lot of international travel, it's called 'getting into the zone'. Doesn't matter where you are, you're looking at setting your body clock to where you're going.

And if your flight happens to be ADL-MEL-HKG-CAN-TPE-NRT-YVR-DFW-TPA-DFW-LAX-MEL-ADL in 13 days, then you need to spend some time getting into the zone....

...and doing some work in-between!!!

 

[serfty]

I guess it was more of a problem for QF with US based members who, until a few years ago would reach SG status without setting foot on a Qantas marketed/operated flight.

This was due to that fact that, even though Qantas had the four segment rule for status eligibility, it was not enforced.

In Early 2007, when Qantas decided they needed to enforce the rule, they went to some lengths to advertise this.

I guess they considered that to be enough, as it would have quite simple, at the same time, to increase the required qualifying segments.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ogram/qantas-enforce-4-segment-rule-9498.html

 

[dfcatch]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I guess it was more of a problem for QF with US based members who, until a few years ago would reach SG status without setting foot on a Qantas marketed/operated flight.

This was due to that fact that, even though Qantas had the four segment rule for status eligibility, it was not enforced.

In Early 2007, when Qantas decided they needed to enforce the rule, they went to some lengths to advertise this.

I guess they considered that to be enough, as it would have quite simple, at the same time, to increase the required qualifying segments.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ogram/qantas-enforce-4-segment-rule-9498.html

Always interesting to have more of the historical perspective on it.

Thanks Serfty.

 

[Archphoto]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

I guess it was more of a problem for QF with US based members who, until a few years ago would reach SG status without setting foot on a Qantas marketed/operated flight.

This was due to that fact that, even though Qantas had the four segment rule for status eligibility, it was not enforced.

In Early 2007, when Qantas decided they needed to enforce the rule, they went to some lengths to advertise this.

I guess they considered that to be enough, as it would have quite simple, at the same time, to increase the required qualifying segments.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ogram/qantas-enforce-4-segment-rule-9498.html

Is hard to do here in Asia also; need to fly Jet* Asia to qualify, and then it costs about $320 rtn (depending on the day/s) plus all your added extras on the flight itself. (I'm actually paying approximately an extra $100 for the SCs, FF points and eligible status flight.)

CX is very close to the price at present ($332 vs $320), but not an eligible flight. Although, sometimes they are cheaper - it depends on when you fly.

I like CX for longer stays in SIN, but when I'm in need of those eligible flights, J* is my *only* choice, unless I want to pay for 4x BKK-ADL flights or BKK-LHR during the year.

As much as I dislike flying the Orange Star - sometimes I have to bite the bullet. . . . . .:mrgreen:

 

[Stephen65]

Re: Discount Y Platinum vs. Premium cabin Platinum, who is really worth more to Qanta

The other thing to consider is in my limited experience there are very few paid seats in business class on domestic flights. Most are awards and ODUs which really do not cost that much one way or another.

It very much depends on the route and time of day/week. To give two examples I am personally familiar with:

- If you fly MEL-SYD on a weekday morning or evening you'll find that J is packed with paying businessmen, professionals, politicians and high ranking public servants.

- On the other hand, a Sunday morning MEL-CNS flight will see J half-empty and those who are there are almost certainly flying on points or upgrades.