Does Closing Beaches Make Any Sense?

[lovetravellingoz]

This is exactly what the Medical Head of our SA Health dept said today. Tracing is paramount in the fight. And she is very impressive.

It is vital that all large gatherings, and especially unnecessary ones, just should not happen both for not generating virus spread in the first place, but also to make contact tracing feasible when transmission has occurred.

 

[p--and--t]

All of the above ignores the very simple fact that groups of people of over 500 were banned. That beach had more than a thousand occupants.
Despite the assertions above, from news footage viewed on TV, more than half were not observing the also declared minimum 1.5m separation.

 

[andye]

This is the confusion
Social distancing is not a way of stopping you getting the virus (If it was, we wouldn't tell people with symptoms to self-isolate i.e to not go out at all)
It is a way of statistically reducing your chances of catching the virus while going about necessary activities
If you congregate in large numbers the statistics work against you (and stuff up any hope of contact tracing as said above)
There are a lot of people (some with COVID, many not) who should be self-isolating wandering about the community because they think that staying 1.5m away is safe-it isn't

 

[Antoallison]

I was thinking ahead to Easter and inviting my brother and sister for lunch at my home.. then I saw this and decided maybe not.

 

[scaredeycat]

Renato mentioned in another thread that he had previous back surgery, despite which he still suffers pain. Many Australians are in a similar situation. Many others suffer from all sorts of acute and chronic complaints that have had the hospital system at breaking point for several years. Here in Hobart it has become routine for up to 10 ambulances to be ramped at the state's only teaching hospital, unable to unload their patients due to bed block. This was BEFORE covid-19 arrived. Add in an epidemic that will require an entire ward of its own, most of the ICU beds and the cancellation of all elective surgery for the next 6 months - it is not just a few thousand preventable deaths we are talking about. Social distancing is currently our best defense until the community can be vaccinated, and if there are members of the community who think that it is OK to just ignore the new rules then the lower our chances of keeping our health system functioning. Think of that the next time you get that funny chest pain...

 

[Dr Ralph]

'Does Closing Beaches Make Any Sense?'

Yes.

 

[juddles]

The scenes at Bondi typify in many ways both the response of people to unclear messages, and also their entitled or oblivious existence.

The reality is that most in the community have not yet really "woken up" to how severe this epidemic is. Such things as "social distancing" are either an absurdity in their world, or something fanciful and humorous. I hope that with the closure of restaurants and pubs, this may finally pop their ignorance bubble.

Apart from the direct and specific threat of Corona virus, we have a second challenge, which is to convince the modern younger generation that Bad Things Happen. They have been so shielded from this. This is not a game, but so far it is being treated as such.

 

[Renato1]

All of the above ignores the very simple fact that groups of people of over 500 were banned. That beach had more than a thousand occupants.
Despite the assertions above, from news footage viewed on TV, more than half were not observing the also declared minimum 1.5m separation.

That beach is a very big place - not an indoor concert arena or sports stadium.

I was in Launceston last week - it had well over 500 people in and around Brisbane Mall.
Cataract Gorge had a few hundred people walking around it.
I didn't notice anyone closing down either of them, or suggesting they be closed.

I watched Andrew Bolt tonight who was also hyperventilating about the people on Bondi Beach - only his prpgram had an aerial video shot of the beach on Friday, and once again one could easily see that the people were far from crammed like sardines, and there was plenty of space between them.

Bolt also asked an expert about people going on trains - something far worse than being on Bondi - the expert essentially shrugged, saying that with the sackings less people would be going into work, and maybe trains should operate at peak capacity all day long to reduce the persons in the carriages.
Regards,
Renato

 

[juddles]

That beach is a very big place - not an indoor concert arena or sports stadium.

I was in Launceston last week - it had well over 500 people in and around Brisbane Mall.
Cataract Gorge had a few hundred people walking around it.
I didn't notice anyone closing down either of them, or suggesting they be closed.

I watched Andrew Bolt tonight who was also hyperventilating about the people on Bondi Beach - only his prpgram had an aerial video shot of the beach on Friday, and once again one could easily see that the people were far from crammed like sardines, and there was plenty of space between them.

Bolt also asked an expert about people going on trains - something far worse than being on Bondi - the expert essentially shrugged, saying that with the sackings less people would be going into work, and maybe trains should operate at peak capacity all day long to reduce the persons in the carriages.
Regards,
Renato

renato, you seem to be just trying to support personal views. Why not just state your views?

 

[Renato1]

renato, you seem to be just trying to support personal views. Why not just state your views?

When I see something I perceive as illogical, I state it.
Which is what I've done in this thread.
And I'm happy to have discussion as to whether my perception is incorrect.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Himeno]

People are typically at beaches for most, if not all, of the day. Being close together for long periods of time makes them close contacts.
Being near each other in a supermarket doesn't last very long. Seconds to single digit minutes at best. This makes them casual contacts.

Close contacts are much more likely to pass the virus between them then casual contacts.

I have been at the beach suffering from other corona-viruses (ie flu) in the past, but was not instantly cured and it lasted just as long.

I assume that meant that I could still pass it on to others?

The flu is not a coronavirus. The Influenza virus is unrelated to coronaviruses. There are 7 coronaviruses that infect humans. 4 cause the common cold. The other 3 are SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2.

 

[Pushka]

That beach is a very big place - not an indoor concert arena or sports stadium.

I was in Launceston last week - it had well over 500 people in and around Brisbane Mall.
Cataract Gorge had a few hundred people walking around it.
I didn't notice anyone closing down either of them, or suggesting they be closed.

I watched Andrew Bolt tonight who was also hyperventilating about the people on Bondi Beach - only his prpgram had an aerial video shot of the beach on Friday, and once again one could easily see that the people were far from crammed like sardines, and there was plenty of space between them.

Bolt also asked an expert about people going on trains - something far worse than being on Bondi - the expert essentially shrugged, saying that with the sackings less people would be going into work, and maybe trains should operate at peak capacity all day long to reduce the persons in the carriages.
Regards,
Renato

Re read andye's post and lovetravellingoz's posts and think about them. This isn't a game. The Government isn't trying to be nasty and spoil a day at the beach just because it can. Many are sacrificing contact with loved ones at much personal sacrifice because they take this seriously, so to see these people blatantly ignoring the factual information as a finger to the seriousness of this issue, is infuriating. The fact that these being younger people will have a better chance of recovery but at the expense of ICU services to those older people or those with health issues is too evil to think about.

 

[Julesmac]

Re read andye's post and lovetravellingoz's posts and think about them. This isn't a game. The Government isn't trying to be nasty and spoil a day at the beach just because it can. Many are sacrificing contact with loved ones at much personal sacrifice because they take this seriously, so to see these people blatantly ignoring the factual information as a finger to the seriousness of this issue is infuriating. The fact that these being younger people will have a better chance of recovery but at the expense of ICU services to those older people or those with health issues is too evil to think about.

A quick snapshot on tv where reporter was talking to some younger people - and some young Brit girls lying on Bondi Beach, lying close enough for bodies to be touching. Absolutely NFI. And they thought it was fairly amusing that they didn't understand the message.With a 72 yo husband in the red zone because of compromised immune system I don't find it in the remotest way amusing.Admittedly the landscape is changing rapidly and in ways we've never contemplated - you don't have to be a brainiac to see that, and we've been getting some mixed messaging but the distancing, reducing outside contact and hygiene are simple to understand.

 

[jb747]

They obviously need beach time to recover from all of the effort involved in hoarding toilet paper.

 

[p--and--t]

Re read andye's post and lovetravellingoz's posts and think about them. This isn't a game. The Government isn't trying to be nasty and spoil a day at the beach just because it can. Many are sacrificing contact with loved ones at much personal sacrifice because they take this seriously, so to see these people blatantly ignoring the factual information as a finger to the seriousness of this issue, is infuriating. The fact that these being younger people will have a better chance of recovery but at the expense of ICU services to those older people or those with health issues is too evil to think about.

The epidemic of tone deaf people is almost as serious as covid-19 itself.

 

[AIRwin]

The epidemic of tone deaf people is almost as serious as covid-19 itself.

Let's hope this will be the survival of the smartest, to adapt AJ's quote...

 

[muppet]

A quick snapshot on tv where reporter was talking to some younger people - and some young Brit girls lying on Bondi Beach, lying close enough for bodies to be touching. Absolutely NFI. And they thought it was fairly amusing that they didn't understand the message.With a 72 yo husband in the red zone because of compromised immune system I don't find it in the remotest way amusing.Admittedly the landscape is changing rapidly and in ways we've never contemplated - you don't have to be a brainiac to see that, and we've been getting some mixed messaging but the distancing, reducing outside contact and hygiene are simple to understand.

I’d love to know where The Prime Minister thinks Brit backpackers would have “got the message” ... what message? Not everyone wastes their lives watching news.

No beach but going to the Sharks is fine? No cafes but crammed on public transport and schools fine?
It’s a shambles.

Blaming the people (young people are the current evil targets) is not helpful. If the message isn’t working it’s usually not the recipients fault, it’s the poor communicators fault.

 

[DC3]

That beach is a very big place - not an indoor concert arena or sports stadium.

.... I watched Andrew Bolt tonight who was also hyperventilating about the people on Bondi Beach - only his prpgram had an aerial video shot of the beach on Friday, and once again one could easily see that the people were far from crammed like sardines ..

Yes, not many aerial shots in the media. That beach is over 1km long x up to 100m wide. Many photos show virtually a 2D image, making ‘distancing’ look worse than it was.

 

[Pushka]

I’d love to know where ScoMo thinks Brit backpackers would have “got the message” ... what message? Not everyone wastes their lives watching news.

No beach but going to the Sharks is fine? No cafes but crammed on public transport and schools fine?
It’s a shambles.

Blaming the people (young people are the current evil targets) is not helpful. If the message isn’t working it’s usually not the recipients fault, it’s the poor communicators fault.

What is your solution then to telling those people who dont listen to the media and dont care a jot anyway?

In Florida it is Spring Break. They are just there to drink and well, pillage and plunder. When told about the risks in what they were doing they simply said - " its my break, Ive been planning this for like, 2 whole months and no one is going to stop me from having a good time". My solution would be hosing them down with a water cannon.

 

[DC3]

I’d love to know where the Prime Minister thinks Brit backpackers would have “got the message” ... what message? Not everyone wastes their lives watching news.

No beach but going to the Sharks is fine? No cafes but crammed on public transport and schools fine?
It’s a shambles.

Blaming the people (young people are the current evil targets) is not helpful. If the message isn’t working it’s usually not the recipients fault, it’s the poor communicators fault.

Have to agree. The last thing that backpackers would be doing is watching the Oz news on TV. What backpacker would be doing that?

As for Bondi Beach, it’s a massive area of sand. I felt that the coverage about Bondi Beach was somewhat overdone by the bureaucracy/press.