Domestic Upgrade From Premium

[S-Hart]

Hi All,

Having a bit of a pickle with an award upgrade I am trying to process...

Have flights booked for...
PER-SYD Economy (H)
SYD-LAX Premium Economy (T)
LAX-SYD Premium Economy (T)
SYD-PER Premium Economy (T)

Now that last leg is obviously a bit unusual, as there isn't that many SYD-PER flights that have Premium Economy. This is QF645 on a Saturday and is scheduled to operate with a 787, hence the PE booking.

It was taking a while to ticket, so I gave them a polite nudge and to ticket the flight so I could request an upgrade on that leg, as there was only 3 available U class showing. I now have ticket numbers.

In the Upgrade section of my booking, I have the option to Upgrade the first 3 fights, but the final leg says "Fare Type Not Eligible". This is obviously incorrect - a T (Discount Premium Economy) booking absolutely can be upgrade to U, and should cost 11,900 per passenger for this leg per the upgrade table.

We have confirmed that the U class is available. I have ticket numbers. However I have spoken to three different agents who tell me they have requested it for me, and don't seem to believe me when I say if you've requested it, it should have confirmed immediately. On my Upgrade page it has changed to requested, but requested for 5,950 per passenger (exactly half of the 11,900 that it should be). And after they played with it some more, now I can't access the upgrade page at all. Just says an error has occurred come back later. There is clearly some technical issues taking place.

It's clear none of the agents can resolve this - I don't blame them as it seems well beyond what they would be capable of - I assume a technical issue with the system.

Am I just out of luck? Do I give up? They insist there is no one I can escalate the problem to, so it seems there is no further action possible?

Not sure what to do... super frustrating. Would appreciate any advice.

Many thanks.

 

[Isolar]

I could be wrong, but I thought the 787 services operating domestic flights (i.e. > QF399) didn't have premium economy for sale. Interesting that you managed to get that sold - perhaps because it was one part of an international booking?

Have you tried just booking the leg by itself for that flight on that particular day to see if they system will sell premium economy on a domestic flight standalone?

 

[S-Hart]

I suspect that's why I am having the issue, they are not used to this situation perhaps?

I honestly think there has been an issue ticketing.

Can anyone advise the places that I should be able to locate my E-Ticket? They sent it to me this morning at my request. I received it via email, and it has E-Ticket numbers on it. But I just went on CheckMyTrip and the status is "Confirmed". If the E-Tickets have been generated, should this not read "Ticketed"? It's been a while...

Just wondering if the problem from the upgrade point of view is that it hadn't ticketed properly somehow, which would obviously mean it would not confirm the upgrade.

Problem is, they say they have cleared all requests for upgrade, but in MMB I still see Upgrade Status:Requested, and when I try to go to my upgrade page it just dumps me with an error.

System is well stuffed, but there's obviously nothing the Qantas agent can do, and apparently nobody I can escalate the problem to, so what, I just have to live with it?

Now I am less worried about the upgrade issue, and more that there could be an issue with the tickets?

 

[S-Hart]

Minor update, they have managed to clear the pending requests and I can access the upgrade page again. It still claims the flight is not eligible for an upgrade.

I will try and get them to process it over the phone again, but first I need to work out if it's actually ticketed. I seem to be in a weird grey area of I have an e-ticket with a number, but the places I would normally check to see if it's ticketed are indicating it is not...

 

[RealtimeY]

Try getting your e-ticket from this:

Order your e-ticket receipt

You can use this form to order your e-ticket receipt. If the reservation is no longer active, please contact our customer service.

www.finnair.com

 

[S-Hart]

That's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, and has returned the following...

"We are unable to find your booking. Please check the booking reference and try again. If you still receive this message, please call our customer service."

I'm so confused. On one hand I have emails, from Qantas, containing "QANTAS E-TICKET ITINERARY AND RECEIPT" for each of the passengers, and both contain an E-Ticket No.

And yet everywhere else seems to be indicating to me it's not ticketed.

Concerning...

 

[RichardMEL]

Was this ticketed manually (by an agent) or booked online through the system.

I agree with the poster above - Premium Y bookings are not made on domestic flights. It seems as though that domestic sector has been somehow booked in T class, even though they shouldn't exist, when it probably should be in Y (or B or K or whatever the rule says). And the system is quite rightly barfing because on a domestic flight it's not an eligible fare class for upgrade.

something has gone rather wrong here. sigh.

good luck with it!

 

[S-Hart]

Was this ticketed manually (by an agent) or booked online through the system.

This was booked online, but via a third party travel agent (Amex Travel to use AmEx QF Credit). Stupidly I hadn't thought there may be an extra kink in there with that, so I will follow up with them and see if they are seeing it as ticketed in the morning. Perhaps they need to do an extra step at their end to finalize ticketing? I don't normally use an agent...

And the system is quite rightly barfing because on a domestic flight it's not an eligible fare class for upgrade.

I'm not sure I agree that's the case. Surely those flying on MEL-PER-LHR flights (and vice versa) on the 787 that purchase PE would be ticketing in PE on the domestic leg as well?

If you look at the Classic Upgrade Reward table on the Qantas website, under the heading "Domestic to Business" the table clearly lists all manner of Premium Economy - from Discount Premium Economy to Premium Economy to Flexible Premium Economy. There is required points set out in the table that dictate a domestic upgrade from Discount Premium Economy (which is me, T class) to Business for SYD-PER (Zone 3) would be 11,900 points per passenger.

So per the information on the website (and the booking conditions) it is absolutely an eligible fare class for upgrade. And the agents haven't flagged any issues with this, they immediately said yep no problem that will be 11,900 points each, as expected.

But then it won't process. Hence why I am thinking the ticketing aspect may be the primary issue here.

A ticketed flight should have the option to "E-mail Itinerary" from MMB shouldn't it? I don't see that option.

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes, but MEL-PER-LHR is the QF9 which is an international flight number and service, unlike QF645 or whatever it is which is a domestic flight number. this is the difference for me.

I've flown on the 789 domestially, seated in PE as a status member, but booked in Y. There was no option to book into PE (as expected) it was not a fare point. Now perhaps it is on a transcon? seems unlikely but possibly.

re Amex travel.. odd. their booking tool shouldn't probably have done that. that really does seem so weird. And unfortunately you have to deal with Amex to try and get it sorted. oh boy.

 

[S-Hart]

their booking tool shouldn't probably have done that

Not sure. I was using ITA Matrix to look at options prior to what I finally selected, and there were often options with Premium Economy in either direction on the domestic legs. Why would the fare bucket even be available if they don't sell it?

Worst case scenario I have an E-Ticket I can show when I rock up on the day.

But ideally I just would like to confirm via a third party somewhere that the flight is in fact ticketed so I can rule that out as the cause of the dud upgrade. I know it seems silly given Qantas e-mailed it to me this morning, but there does seem to be indications there are issues.

• Can't "Email Itinerary" or see E-Ticket info anywhere on MMB. Should be able to do this right?
• Status on Checkmytrip is "Confirmed." It's been a while with COVID, but doesn't this usually say "Ticketed"? And shouldn't the E-Ticket number be viewable on Checkmytrip? Maybe I am remembering wrong.
• The above Finnair lookup returns no E-ticket.

Unless I am forgetting how it all works and the above points are not cause for concern.

If it just wasn't processing the upgrade I'd just chalk it up to the system doesn't like it, whatever. But the fact that it will request the booking just not automatically process it like it should with U class available makes me think there might be something more sinister going on. And what I am more concerned about is when I put in the upgrade request for the international legs, it won't actually consider it the same way it doesn't seem to be considering the others. If only there was U available on the domestic leg at the start so I could upgrade that and see if it works.

I guess I will try and reach AmEx Travel and see if they can confirm it's ticketed. Maybe there's an extra step they need to do before all the planets align?

 

[RichardMEL]

I did some more digging. I couldn't find in my (quick) search the Saturday(s) in question that a 787 operates the QF645 (it's normally a 332) however I did a fare search in EF for Prem Y fares filed for SYD-PER, and as expected there's nothing. I also queried on any T class fares, and again nothing. I definitely suspect this is a balls up but how it even got booked into T when T doesn't seem to be available.. that's just plain weird.

btw you have 081 ticket numbers and confirmed e-ticket receipt.. that definitely indicates it is ticketed imo.

 

[S-Hart]

I couldn't find in my (quick) search the Saturday(s) in question that a 787 operates the QF645 (it's normally a 332)

Appears to commence from the first Saturday in November.

I suspect you can't purchase T as a domestic only, but only as part of an international booking,

 

[RichardMEL]

Appears to commence from the first Saturday in November.

I suspect you can't purchase T as a domestic only, but only as part of an international booking,

Aha. thank you.

So this gets fun.

I looked at LAX-PER /03NOV and what do you know, via EF BOTH sectors (eg: QF12-645) show the Premium Y booking classes. And even looking for 645 on say 05NOV22, it is offering those booking classes in EF. This explains how T could be booked on the flight. ok cool.

Now when I go to qf.com and look at fare offerings for SYD-PER, despite the inventory, yes, there are no fares filed so no PE option shows up. As per what I saw above.


So... this is new! On other dom flights with the 787 (the MEL-SYDs that have been common this year) they've never shown PEY buckets as available.. so I suspect this is either new, or purely for the purposes of this kind of connection perhaps.

Now why won't it work for upgrade? I am going to go with good ol' QF IT. There's most likely a rule that QF400+, T isn't a eligible fare to upgrade from, despite being ofered and booked into.


something for them to fix (if they care to) or a weird anomaly, but it seems nothing much any agent can do if "computer says no"

how annoying!

 

[S-Hart]

So... this is new!

Sadly, it's not for the better. Immediately prior to COVID when I would book PE from PER-LAX, the domestic legs would usually get ticketed in Business (I) when available. Now I seem to get ticketed in PE when available, which is almost never, otherwise it's Economy (H). At least H is flexible, so it's only 10k points for the upgrade... if available.

I did have the option of ticketing the the LAX legs as the AA flight (not on AmEx, would have had to go to a "real" travel agent), and on AA it still tickets the domestics in QF Business when available. Cost would have been the same. However nothing really aligned for me where I could connect a T on the LAX legs to the I on the domestic, it was mostly one or the other around the dates I needed. And ultimately I'd like the chance to take a crack at an upgrade on the LAX legs, even though there's probably a snowflakes chance in hell of it coming through, and obviously I couldn't do that under an AA booking.

I'm still hoping for some clarity around ticketing though. Does anyone have a ticketed flight they can check on checkmytrip and tell me what the Booking Status shows as? I thought it showed as Confirmed when you book, and then changed to Ticketed once it had been, but I could have a cough memory. It's been a while. What about in Qantas Manage My Booking? Is there any reference to the e-ticket in there, or an option to "E-Mail Itinerary" like I remember?

Maybe everything just changed, there's no problem, just the system won't do the upgrade for the reasons you've mentioned. I have an EF alert set for the PER-SYD leg for U class, so at least if that pops up I can try and jump on that and confirm that upgrades are at least working...

 

[SJF211]

QF645 goes to 787 from November 5 (for Saturdays). Unlike usual you can select rows 20-23 which I’ve done before as SG. Not sure if QANTAS. will be selling it though or maybe someone with higher status can check.

 

[S-Hart]

My workaround, if I can get AmEx on the phone, might be to see if they can change the booking so that the final leg is in Economy instead of Premium Economy. All of the other flights around that one are booking into H at the same price, this one is on T just because it's available. But with upgrades available, ironically I'd be better off in H. We know the system will let it upgrade from H, and it's actually cheaper at 10,900 from Flexible Economy instead of 11,900 on Discount Premium (and seemingly impossible anyway).

Will report back in the morning if I can get a hold of them.

 

[RealtimeY]

Does anyone have a ticketed flight they can check on checkmytrip and tell me what the Booking Status shows as

"Booking status: confirmed"
And when you click it, it shows the eticket number.

What about in Qantas Manage My Booking?

For my bookings made directly with Qantas, I see these options:


For my booking made through Amex, those two options are missing.

 

[S-Hart]

And when you click it, it shows the eticket number.

Hmm. When I click it a box pops up but very little info, and no eticket number.

For my booking made through Amex, those two options are missing.

That makes me feel a bit better, thanks.

If I can get them to switch the final leg to H, then they will have to reissue anyway, so that will hopefully remove any doubt.

Commencing Operation Try-And-Get-AmEx-On-The-Phone now.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF645 goes to 787 from November 5 (for Saturdays). Unlike usual you can select rows 20-23 which I’ve done before as SG. Not sure if QANTAS. will be selling it though or maybe someone with higher status can check.

No, they do not appear to be selling PE as a separate cabin on this flight, but making the inventory available to book - for connections as in this situation. Since no fares are filed in the market (eg: SYD-PER) you can't purchase it. I presume for pure domestic bookings it acts as usual to purchase a Y fare and status pax (I thought it was WP/P1/CL) can select the PE seats as a status perk (so unsure about SG?)

Thls seems new for the transcon domestic sector, unless I just missed it on other flights (which is possible!)

I should hope Amex can change the T to a Y fare bucket booking (I am sure QF has no issue with an agent booking a downgraded bucket on a flight) and that should solve the upgrade issue I agree. Good luck!

 

[S-Hart]

Wait time with AmEx Travel was 5 minutes, and the person I was dealing with was at least a lot more polite and empathetic than anyone I've spoken to at Qantas recently.

Unfortunately when she tried to ticket it in H it's $700/pax more expensive. Seems odd because I can book the exact flights now, taking either one earlier or a choice of 3 later, that all book into H for the same price as mine that books into T. She tried to push me to change to the earlier flight, but I've long since given up trying to make a 1h30 connection from international to domestic in Sydney. Would rather lock in the upgrade, have a 3h connection and can have some breakfast in the lounge. Better than rushing, missing the connection and then sitting in a middle seat at the back instead of business because there's no room left. With no compensation. Been there.

She is going to speak with the team there, and Qantas if necessary, to try and resolve. Normally wouldn't be happy leaving it and waiting for a call back, but she seemed genuine that she would follow up. We'll see. I guess I don't have high hopes.

I am sure QF has no issue with an agent booking a downgraded bucket on a flight

Ironically, she originally said Qantas have a policy against this. Can only go up, not down. Therefore might need to re-book the whole thing rather than just make the change. We'll see I guess.

At the end of the day, it's first world problems here. I'm just annoyed that I'm disadvantaged despite the $$$ you drop on such fares. Even on sale I'm paying almost 2k more than I did in March 2020, and back then the domestic legs booked in Business. So I'm paying significantly more for less product, and then getting slapped in the face by the service on top of it.

This might be the experience I need to abandon ship and go via Singapore.