Downgraded from business class-AGAIN[Flight Change Revoked]

[OATEK]

<SNIP>

This, to me, would be tantamount to "Denied Boarding"

This is a very believable interpretation. But the mention of "Denied Boarding" probably guarantees another 10 pages of discussion.

 

[amaroo]

If you say the airline "coughed up" by inadvertently transferring Duffa onto the earlier flight causing the oversale, what would you call it when the last to people to check in ie the rightful owners of those seats (who were always booked in J on that flight) are told the flight is oversold if Duffa were to remain on that flight in J???

Seems pretty clear-cut the airline coughed-up! If it was due to overselling (not confirmed) then correct procedure was followed..... Duffa being bumped.

find so ironic that the people who were most vocal on the 'other thread' are inferring the OP on this thread was wronged, bumped, downgraded & basically once he had been given the J boarding passes that was it, possession is nine tenths of the law etc etc without contemplating the consequences of that ie if Duffa remained in those seats it would most certainly be at the expense of someone else.

Well what if that someone else what you? I asked you earlier in the thread what would you do if you were the last to check in on that flight and were told that you'd been downgraded? You responded by saying that you always pre-allocate your seats however playing devil's advocate for a moment, just say there was a config change and the seat numbers you had originally reserved did not exist on the new aircraft and as a result left you with no pre-allocated seat numbers resulting in the downgrade.

Knowing your 'modus operandi' from other threads eg when BA tried to downgrade your MIL there is absolutely no way you'd accept that & you'd be saying that it wasn't good enough and demanding your seats back and that Duffa be moved back to his original flight. The very action you would suggest to resolve the issue is exactly what did happen in this case.

Can't recall any posts demanding that Duffa should have flown in those seats - certainly none by me or the OP. The whole conversation has been taken on a merry-go-round of silly distractions for reasons unknown.

hmmm, it's either a downgrade or yet another example of "World-Worst" practice ...

It's a downgrade! With a twist....

Hmmm, I can't see any believability issues with the OP....

QF coughed-up - simply as that.

Why worry about the title? It's a cough-up that resulted in a downgrade or a delay.....amateur hour in the extreme.

Denied boarding, Downgraded, Shafted .... the outcomes are all the same.

It appears legitimate criticism of QF attracts attention - fair enough. It's important to note that this thread and a few others aren't created to encourage 90 odd reasons to dump on Qantas.

not that Classic Award fares are not changeable - they are, as long as "U" class seats are available. I believe that the only J seats available on the earlier flight were those in the J bucket not U otherwise the CSA on the J class checkin would have been able to change it. Whilst the OP was within his rights to ask about changing, the CSA was also within their rights to say that there weren't any award seats available to change to on that flight.

I don't think the CSA realised it was an award ticket so when they went to display available flights the system would've only display those flights with "U" class award availability and given the disrupt situation I sincerely doubt that there would have been any of those seats available.

As the CSA couldn't change it they referred Duffa to the supervisor at counter 20 because they thought there may have been a problem ie that pax holding a J ticket couldn't be moved to a J seat however it was obviously a case of J seats not showing available to a pax holding an award ticket booked in the "U" fare bucket. Not all CSA's have the ability to override ie transferring a pax on a U ticket to a flight that only has seats available in the J bucket.

Fair enough - have no problem accepting your extensive knowledge on this matter. Given the above (might) have occurred - it all reverts back to a disorganised and dysfunctional system... otherwise known as a cough-Up.

Who would have thought that calling a spade a cough-up would create such emotion

 

[serfty]

... As the CSA couldn't change it they referred Duffa to the supervisor at counter 20 because they thought there may have been a problem ie that pax holding a J ticket couldn't be moved to a J seat however it was obviously a case of J seats not showing available to a pax holding an award ticket booked in the "U" fare bucket. Not all CSA's have the ability to override ie transferring a pax on a U ticket to a flight that only has seats available in the J bucket. ...

As above I would suggest the CSA knew exactly what they were doing and that special processing was required - hence referring Duffa to the service desk. where I presume was a supervisor.

Note well - the process was check-in @ counter -> Service Desk queue (with call to QF) -> back to check-in counter (20).

The re-booking to the earlier flight was initiated over the 'phone by the (obviously empowered) CSA and completed by the check-in person at counter 20.

Duffa never actually was served at the service desk, nor did they see a supervisor in the re-booking process.

 

[mannej]

Who would have thought that calling a spade a cough-up would create such emotion

That is not what we are arguing, as I can suggest that neither Princess Fiona or myself believe that the situation was handled appropriately.

The argument is about those who are most vocal about the fact that the OP was downgraded, when the facts suggest that they were bumped back to their original flight.

There is a difference.

 

[amaroo]

That is not what we are arguing, as I can suggest that neither Princess Fiona or myself believe that the situation was handled appropriately.

The argument is about those who are most vocal about the fact that the OP was downgraded, when the facts suggest that they were bumped back to their original flight.

There is a difference.

There are three possibilities: A) downgrade, B) denied boarding, C) nothing happened .... take your pick and be happy.

edit: I'd suggest the "anti-downgrade" cheer squad are the most vocal.

 

[Quickstatus]

Qantas constructs it's fares so passengers travel on the actual booked flights . Change of booking requires cost to passenger. Even the fully flexible ones have conditions attached.

When QF want to change it due to their policy / practice of overbooking to maximise yield (AKA reducing overall cost of airfares spin) the passengers affected still pay.

Me thinks there should be legislative change so that when passengers get downgraded/denied boarding they are properly compensated according to legislation not company whim or secret ex gratis payments/goodwill.

What other industry benefits both ways and screws the customer in this way.?

Should be:
Downgrade: difference between cheapest discount fare in cabin flown and actual payment on the day of booking.

Or: downgrade = full refund of fare paid in money not voucher.

 

[Princess Fiona]

IMHO they were downgraded. Nothing wrong with the title - probably why it hasn't been moderated :idea:

There are three possibilities: A) downgrade, B) denied boarding, C) nothing happened .... take your pick and be happy.

edit: I'd suggest the "anti-downgrade" cheer squad are the most vocal.

The title has been moderated now.
Actually I think there's a fourth possibility. Qantas made a mistake, clumsily rectified it, resulting in the OP flying on the flight and class of travel he originally booked.

 

[serfty]

The title has been moderated now.
Actually I think there's a fourth possibility. Qantas made a mistake, clumsily rectified it, resulting in the OP flying on the flight and class of travel he originally booked.

i.e. Rebooked twice.

I have a feeling Duffa would have no joy at the service desk and by calling an empowered agent bypassed whatever the Perth Staff were up to.

 

[Moody]

i.e. Rebooked twice.

I have a feeling Duffa would have no joy at the service desk and by calling an empowered agent bypassed whatever the Perth Staff were up to.

Yep - as I said before (but I'm not so crass as to quote myself) .... mild gaming of the system that seemed to initially have paid off but instead led to a mild case of the OP being hoist by his own petard. No harm done apart from the global warming generated by all the hot air on here.

 

[RAM]

That is not what we are arguing, as I can suggest that neither Princess Fiona or myself believe that the situation was handled appropriately.

The argument is about those who are most vocal about the fact that the OP was downgraded, when the facts suggest that they were bumped back to their original flight.

There is a difference.

Despite several misreps of what I have posted, here goes...

Q made a mistake, story/treatment from Q personnel involved was different/inconsistent, Red Roo is not attempting to clarify the situation.

Why I believe has many similarities to EmilyP's parents issue;

Q made a mistake, story/treatment from Q personnel involved was different/inconsistent, Red Roo is not attempting to clarify the situation.

In the other thread - Red Roo makes vague allegations and appears to be trying to point the finger at the parents, the Agent, or the wholesaler.
In this thread - quite silent.

Red Roo represents a group of full time paid Q communications staff and senior managers.

Do you think their performance in either thread has been:

a) Exemplary, showing concern for customer inconvenience, time lost and confusion involved
b) Passable, seeking to expedite response and resolve issue but likely refunds will not match lost value let alone inconvenience and time taken to resolve
c) Poor, seeking to shift focus/blame to other parties with no apparent concern for time and effort involved for EmilyP's parents
d) Deplorable, only aim to confuse issue, shift blame away from Q and mislead through both unsubantiated/vague claims interspersed with extended periods of silence when posts by AFFers favouring Q for positive action were totally groundless, only responding when EmilyP corrects false impression of Q's activity (or inactivity as several times has been the case).

Your call?

IMHO alleging misrepresentation by what happened, trying to blame un-named 'agent' (who some immediately jumped on as TC failing) yet saying 'two weeks ago' and then 'notified parents this morning' does not sit well with me.

The common issue for many of these threads is customer (lack thereof) service, honest communication and owning a failure.

 

[MelUser]

From my experience - being in U class on an award ticket is "safer" than being in "U" on a points upgrade.

Reservations once told me that although you might think you are in U Business on a points upgrade really you are in your original fare class with a U an electronic certificate/sticker attached which lets them put you in to U inventory.

I have voluntary accepted a "downgrade" back to ticketed class when in U when trying to move to an earlier flight at the airport.

Such a move seems to need:

(1) Goodwill of person helping; an
(2) An ability for them to pick up the white batphone and speak to yield management, somewhat forcefully if required;

 

[Princess Fiona]

Despite several misreps of what I have posted, here goes...

Q made a mistake, story/treatment from Q personnel involved was different/inconsistent, Red Roo is not attempting to clarify the situation.

Why I believe has many similarities to EmilyP's parents issue;

Q made a mistake, story/treatment from Q personnel involved was different/inconsistent, Red Roo is not attempting to clarify the situation.

In the other thread - Red Roo makes vague allegations and appears to be trying to point the finger at the parents, the Agent, or the wholesaler.
In this thread - quite silent.

Red Roo represents a group of full time paid Q communications staff and senior managers.

Do you think their performance in either thread has been:

a) Exemplary, showing concern for customer inconvenience, time lost and confusion involved
b) Passable, seeking to expedite response and resolve issue but likely refunds will not match lost value let alone inconvenience and time taken to resolve
c) Poor, seeking to shift focus/blame to other parties with no apparent concern for time and effort involved for EmilyP's parents
d) Deplorable, only aim to confuse issue, shift blame away from Q and mislead through both unsubantiated/vague claims interspersed with extended periods of silence when posts by AFFers favouring Q for positive action were totally groundless, only responding when EmilyP corrects false impression of Q's activity (or inactivity as several times has been the case).

Your call?

IMHO alleging misrepresentation by what happened, trying to blame un-named 'agent' (who some immediately jumped on as TC failing) yet saying 'two weeks ago' and then 'notified parents this morning' does not sit well with me.

The common issue for many of these threads is customer (lack thereof) service, honest communication and owning a failure.

No..........

 

[JohnK]

I've often asked at the airport if there was an earlier flight I could get on, and been told yes but only in economy. I'm curious - had I accepted that, would you class that as a downgrade? And blame the airline for it?

No. You choose to go on earlier flight in a class lower than you booked.

But and I mean but. If you ask for seat on earlier flight and they give you a business boarding pass and then after a few minutes tell you we made a mistake you have to go back to your original flight in business or travel in economy on your new flight. This is a downgrade. No doubt about it regardless of what sort of spin you want to put on it.

Here is another situation. You pay for economy and put in an upgrade request to business. On morning of the flight your upgrade request is granted. You then go to airport, check-in and have business class boarding pass, go to lounge and start relaxing. Then you are paged. Apologies Mr opusman but your upgrade was a mistake. Here is your new boarding pass for economy 68E. How? Who made the mistake? The computer made the mistake and it handed out too many upgrades. But I had 43H allocated for the past 11 months. Sorry Mr opusman but 68E is the only seat left on the flight. Original booked class is meaningless.

So not only have you now been downgraded but you have seriously been shafted.

Appears to be a difficult concept to grasp.... for some.

Obviously an extremely difficult concept.

The situation with EmilyP's parents and this one with Duffa appear to be exactly the same. Some of the people are calling both decisions justified. If it was right to remove Duffa from this flight then it was totally wrong to ask EmilyP's parents to move from business class.

In my opinion Qantas got both of these wrong. Totally wrong and the handling of the situations extremely poor. They also got the other one wrong (going to NRT) but saved themselves when there was a no show in business.

I have been on AFF for close to 10 years and I don't remember reading these types of situations that often. We have now had 3 in less than 2 months. Who knows how many more. I am starting to see a pattern emerge and it is not looking good.

 

[mannej]

Sorry JohnK, but I must challenge this.

No. You choose to go on earlier flight in a class lower than you booked.

But and I mean but. If you ask for seat on earlier flight and they give you a business boarding pass and then after a few minutes tell you we made a mistake you have to go back to your original flight in business or travel in economy on your new flight. This is a downgrade. No doubt about it regardless of what sort of spin you want to put on it.

Here is another situation. You pay for economy and put in an upgrade request to business. On morning of the flight your upgrade request is granted. You then go to airport, check-in and have business class boarding pass, go to lounge and start relaxing. Then you are paged. Apologies Mr opusman but your upgrade was a mistake. Here is your new boarding pass for economy 68E. How? Who made the mistake? The computer made the mistake and it handed out too many upgrades. But I had 43H allocated for the past 11 months. Sorry Mr opusman but 68E is the only seat left on the flight. Original booked class is meaningless.

So not only have you now been downgraded but you have seriously been shafted.

This situation has occurred on here, possibly about 6 months ago with a member (or friend of) having their upgrade revoked. That situation is not relevant to the OP's situation.

Obviously an extremely difficult concept.

I must say the same applies for those who obviously are arguing the opposite of what I am

The situation with EmilyP's parents and this one with Duffa appear to be exactly the same. Some of the people are calling both decisions justified. If it was right to remove Duffa from this flight then it was totally wrong to ask EmilyP's parents to move from business class.

In my opinion Qantas got both of these wrong. Totally wrong and the handling of the situations extremely poor. They also got the other one wrong (going to NRT) but saved themselves when there was a no show in business.

I have been on AFF for close to 10 years and I don't remember reading these types of situations that often. We have now had 3 in less than 2 months. Who knows how many more. I am starting to see a pattern emerge and it is not looking good.

Tell me JohnK, where have I called either decision justified. That is not what I am arguing as I believe that the situation was handled poorly.
What I am arguing, is that based on the evidence of of the OP, is that those who are shouting downgrade the most are extrapolating facts and adding their own spin. From the information provided, it would seem that QF have said we have overbooked the earlier flight, here are your original seats back on the 776 in J. No downgrade there, but an involuntary bump back to the original flight. That is not a downgrade.
IMHO I believe the offer of Y seats came up when the OP asked what options they had in getting back on the earlier flight.

You can spin my argument all you like, but I am not justifying the actions of QF here, which I have stated all along.

Take it or leave it.

 

[JohnK]

Sorry JohnK, but I must challenge this.

No need to apologise. You don't have to agree with me. We are all entitled to our opinion.

I call it as I see it. The 2 situations with EmilyP's parents and Duffa are identical. Both involve an oversold business class cabin. Both involve a downgrade. Both handled poorly.

There is something seriously wrong when you can move someone and issue a boarding pass into an oversold cabin. Try going to the airport early and ask to be moved to a full flight. Not possible. What happened here?

My theory is there is another reason why Duffa was moved back to original flight. He was given 2 boarding passes in business class as the earlier flight was not full. Then some self proclaimed wanker on later flight came along and asked to be put on earlier flight when they saw the delay on their flight. Someone has to make way for the self proclaimed wanker and Duffa pays the price.

I will call it a downgrade. You can call it what you like. Doesn't change the fact that Qantas has got it totally wrong and continue to get it wrong.

 

[opusman]

The 2 situations with EmilyP's parents and Duffa are identical. Both involve an oversold business class cabin. Both involve a downgrade. Both handled poorly.

You can't see a difference between being bumped from your originally booked flight, and being bumped back to your originally booked flight (and class) after a last minute change made under possibly chaotic conditions?

 

[serfty]

You can't see a difference between being bumped from your originally booked flight, and being bumped back to your originally booked flight (and class) after a last minute change made under possibly chaotic conditions?

It is irrelevant what flight they ended up flying on; whether it was originally booked, a later one or earlier.

Their booking was changed to the earlier flight by Qantas. They were issued boarding passes by Qantas then summoned and denied boarding by Qantas.

To be clear; there was no downgrade - they were offered a new booking on the earlier flight in economy with a refund of the difference in points between economy and business for the route - an offer declined.

 

[JohnK]

You can't see a difference between being bumped from your originally booked flight, and being bumped back to your originally booked flight (and class) after a last minute change made under possibly chaotic conditions?

No difference.

They were moved to a new flight. This is now their flight. They were then asked to move to later flight and the only way to stay on their flight was in economy.

This is totally wrong. I cannot see how people are justifying this poor decision.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I think the thread should just be locked, no point continuing.

 

[serfty]

[mod hat]

Ok, some posts have been pruned as they were referring away from the topic.

This thread is now closed while it is being reviewed.​

[/mod hat]