Downgraded from business class-AGAIN[Flight Change Revoked]

[mannej]

Not handed. They were offered economy on earlier flight, which is where the downgrade comes in, but chose to stay in business on original flight.

I disagree that they were offered, as the OP suggests that QF handed them back boarding passes for their original J seats on the 776, but it was only after asking how to get back onto the earlier flight the suggestion of Y came up.

 

[amaroo]

Since when is "U" a flexible fare ?

I've changed a mountain of award seats. The following is copy/paste from a classic award booking...

Up to the commencement of travel for each flight:The following changes are permitted up to the commencement of travel of each flight in your booking*:
- change of flight number
- change to date of travel
provided that a change to name, class of travel or segment routing or airline is not required.
*Exception: If the change is requested for an airline that requires ticket reissue for changes to flight number or date of travel, changes are only permitted up to 24 hours before departure of the first flight in your booking.

 

[amaroo]

I don't believe the airline asked the OP to travel Y, the suggestion was forthcoming after the OP asked how to get back on the earlier flight.

Massive Call! You're calling Duffa a liar :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

 

[mannej]

Massive Call! You're calling Duffa a liar :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

What is with the accusation? I don't see it occurring any other way with the info provided by the OP.

 

[amaroo]

What is with the accusation? I don't see it occurring any other way with the info provided by the OP.

No wonder these threads get closed down! Doesn't do QF any favours IMHO...

 

[Princess Fiona]

LOL - I can't even give a "like" without getting dished! Why are people so unkind :?:

For me - it's got nothing to do with loss of confidence or sledging QF.... poor customer service shouldn't be tolerated - no matter what company issued the invoice.

I've done my fair share of flying with QF - more than most! It's a great airline. However, I have a ton of empathy for the many that receive a level of service that many here would not accept. A casual search provides plenty of supporting evidence!

It would be a pity if this thread goes the way of the other one It's not healthy when we intimidate, sledge or close down discussions. We should focus on poor outcomes for passengers and try and play a role improving the system.

FWIW - PF I'm sure I've given you a decent amount of likes over the years - did I also err with these ?

I never "dished" you, I'm including you in the group that believes there was a downgrade as up until very recently your posts on here had been few and far between but you had liked many of the posts that stated there was an attempted downgrade and clearly believe that there had been one.
Apologies if I'm mistaken and you don't believe there was an attempted downgrade. I do not believe that I'm being unkind.
I have no desire to close down the thread and I agree 100% that we should try to play a role in improving the system.

 

[mannej]

No wonder these threads get closed down! Doesn't do QF any favours IMHO...

Really? Call me a fanboi if you really must, but I will not bow to a particular view if I do not see the proof.

I think it is obvious we disagree, but I still don't see how we are missing the point that QF handed the OP back his BP for a J seat on the 776 before any mention of sitting in Y came up.

 

[amaroo]

I never "dished" you, I'm including you in the group that believes there was a downgrade as up until very recently your posts on here had been few and far between but you had liked many of the posts that stated there was an attempted downgrade and clearly believe that there had been one.
Apologies if I'm mistaken and you don't believe there was an attempted downgrade. I do not believe that I'm being unkind.
I have no desire to close down the thread and I agree 100% that we should try to play a role in improving the system.

I'm a little embarrassed that I've contributed only 17 posts... 6 today. Considering I missed the kick-off due to being OS on business - I reckon my contribution is above average.

It's clearly a downgrade!

YMMV

 

[Princess Fiona]

I've changed a mountain of award seats. The following is copy/paste from a classic award booking...

Here's another copy/paste

14.7 Classic Awards (excluding Classic Awards forming part of Combined Classic Award Bookings) - changes to tickets
14.7.1 Except as otherwise stated in this clause 14.7 and clause 14.8, changes are not permitted to any Classic Award at any time. Any permitted changes are subject to Classic Award availability.
14.7.2 If a booking is made that includes non-Classic Award flight(s) and Classic Award flight(s), then any changes to any Classic Award flight Segment or Segments in the combined booking may only be made in accordance with the conditions outlined in clause 14.8, and this clause 14.7 will not apply.
14.7.3 Prior to ticketing, Classic Awards may be changed without incurring a Change Fee; however, any changes will be subject to this clause 14.7 and to the advance purchase and validity provisions set out in clauses 14.2.2 and 14.6.1.
14.7.4 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Award after ticketing and prior to commencement of any travel and will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:
(a) change to flight number;
(b) change to date of travel;
(c) change to class of travel;
(d) change to any Segment routing or airline;
(e) change to name (only for Flights with a Qantas (QF) flight number on the ticket that are operated by Qantas); and
(f) request to cancel ticket and re-credit Points. Please note that only Points that would not have expired will be re-credited.

14.7.1 pretty much covers it.

I've certainly been able to change a U class award to an earlier flight with empty seats but I'm certain that it's not a "flexible" ticket and the T&C's do not suggest that it is either.

 

[amaroo]

Here's another copy/paste

14.7 Classic Awards (excluding Classic Awards forming part of Combined Classic Award Bookings) - changes to tickets
14.7.1 Except as otherwise stated in this clause 14.7 and clause 14.8, changes are not permitted to any Classic Award at any time. Any permitted changes are subject to Classic Award availability.
14.7.2 If a booking is made that includes non-Classic Award flight(s) and Classic Award flight(s), then any changes to any Classic Award flight Segment or Segments in the combined booking may only be made in accordance with the conditions outlined in clause 14.8, and this clause 14.7 will not apply.
14.7.3 Prior to ticketing, Classic Awards may be changed without incurring a Change Fee; however, any changes will be subject to this clause 14.7 and to the advance purchase and validity provisions set out in clauses 14.2.2 and 14.6.1.
14.7.4 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Award after ticketing and prior to commencement of any travel and will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:
(a) change to flight number;
(b) change to date of travel;
(c) change to class of travel;
(d) change to any Segment routing or airline;
(e) change to name (only for Flights with a Qantas (QF) flight number on the ticket that are operated by Qantas); and
(f) request to cancel ticket and re-credit Points. Please note that only Points that would not have expired will be re-credited.

14.7.1 pretty much covers it.

I've certainly been able to change a U class award to an earlier flight with empty seats but I'm certain that it's not a "flexible" ticket and the T&C's do not suggest that it is either.

Given the OP request was accepted and he was issued with new BP - it clearly was flexible.

QF have never had any problems telling me that I couldn't change flights when I was traveling on a NON-Flex fare.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Given the OP request was accepted and he was issued with new BP - it clearly was flexible.

QF have never had any problems telling me that I couldn't change flights when I was traveling on a NON-Flex fare.

Really ?
I can't understand why a request to change an Award ticket meant that it was "clearly" a flexible ticket. More likely it was clearly a flexible agent who mistakenly re-booked the OP.

On the second part of your post I agree that on the whole QF tries really hard to accomodate my flight changes where they can regardless of the conditions of the ticket.

 

[Moody]

.....The airline coughed-up... asked the OP to travel Y = downgrade!

As always - YMMV ...

Mine certainly does - I favour the truth over a pile of steaming guano. The pax booked in J and travelled in J .... funny sort of downgrade. Nothing from the OP suggests the airline asked them to travel in Y.

[In a side note I have a theory that threads have a fixed IQ that gets divided amongst the posts. The longer it goes on the dumber it gets. Discuss]

 

[Moody]

Oh - and I have been travelling on a Red-E-Deal ticket and been op-upped to J on an earlier flight due to weather issues. Doesn't change the original class ...

 

[amaroo]

Really ?
I can't understand why a request to change an Award ticket meant that it was "clearly" a flexible ticket. More likely it was clearly a flexible agent who mistakenly re-booked the OP.

On the second part of your post I agree that on the whole QF tries really hard to accomodate my flight changes where they can regardless of the conditions of the ticket.

The ticket was flexible.... The T&C are pretty clear on this.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The ticket was flexible.... The T&C are pretty clear on this.

I can't see that, sorry .

 

[amaroo]

I can't see that, sorry .

No need to worry - it's only a distraction.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Why would you blame the airline? It's your decision to travel Y

We all have to live with the decisions/actions we make... including airlines. The OP utilised his rights provided via his "flexible fare" and requested to change flights.... not his fault the airline reviewed, accepted and issued new BP. Once he was checked-in and had the BP in hands - it's totally reasonable to expect to travel on that flight in that class.

The airline coughed-up... asked the OP to travel Y = downgrade!

As always - YMMV

If you say the airline "coughed up" by inadvertently transferring Duffa onto the earlier flight causing the oversale, what would you call it when the last to people to check in ie the rightful owners of those seats (who were always booked in J on that flight) are told the flight is oversold if Duffa were to remain on that flight in J???

I find so ironic that the people who were most vocal on the 'other thread' are inferring the OP on this thread was wronged, bumped, downgraded & basically once he had been given the J boarding passes that was it, possession is nine tenths of the law etc etc without contemplating the consequences of that ie if Duffa remained in those seats it would most certainly be at the expense of someone else.

Well what if that someone else what you? I asked you earlier in the thread what would you do if you were the last to check in on that flight and were told that you'd been downgraded? You responded by saying that you always pre-allocate your seats however playing devil's advocate for a moment, just say there was a config change and the seat numbers you had originally reserved did not exist on the new aircraft and as a result left you with no pre-allocated seat numbers resulting in the downgrade.

Knowing your 'modus operandi' from other threads eg when BA tried to downgrade your MIL there is absolutely no way you'd accept that & you'd be saying that it wasn't good enough and demanding your seats back and that Duffa be moved back to his original flight. The very action you would suggest to resolve the issue is exactly what did happen in this case.

I've changed a mountain of award seats. The following is copy/paste from a classic award booking...

It's not that Classic Award fares are not changeable - they are, as long as "U" class seats are available. I believe that the only J seats available on the earlier flight were those in the J bucket not U otherwise the CSA on the J class checkin would have been able to change it. Whilst the OP was within his rights to ask about changing, the CSA was also within their rights to say that there weren't any award seats available to change to on that flight.

I don't think the CSA realised it was an award ticket so when they went to display available flights the system would've only display those flights with "U" class award availability and given the disrupt situation I sincerely doubt that there would have been any of those seats available.

As the CSA couldn't change it they referred Duffa to the supervisor at counter 20 because they thought there may have been a problem ie that pax holding a J ticket couldn't be moved to a J seat however it was obviously a case of J seats not showing available to a pax holding an award ticket booked in the "U" fare bucket. Not all CSA's have the ability to override ie transferring a pax on a U ticket to a flight that only has seats available in the J bucket.

 

[Pushka]

Downgraded from business class - AGAIN

I'm not sure that the bumped "someone else" from their seat argument applies in this case. Because from the "other thread" we know that people can be downgraded from paid seats for all kinds of reasons as it is in the T&C's. And possession isn't 9/10's anymore.

As I mentioned earlier I don't see this situation as being in the same league as what happened with EmilyP's parents where they did not receive their paid seats, but some of the other points raised here in support of Qantas procedures don't fly either anymore.

What all this has done is make me worry for future J bookings I've made (and which I do hesitate to make because of the cost that I'm personally paying for), because of onward flights I have little flexibility to wait another day or fly Y and get a pittance in compensation.

 

[serfty]

I have been moved to an earlier flight at my request when in U class; for me this has always been done at the airport and for the last 15 years or so it does taken a calls or two be the CSA to get permission. Anyway, discussion of U or J or any other class availability is moot here.

Here's what I believe happened:

• Later flight was delayed by 2½ hours.
• Duffa was proactive and on arrival at the airport was able to proactively get moved to the earlier flight.
• It took a visit to the check-in desk, off to the service counter, a call to a Qantas CSA and a re-attendeance to the check-in desk.
• At that time, there are "plenty of seats" (whether U class was available or not at that time is moot; it could easily have been created at the service desk or by the CSA while getting moved).
• They were presented with Business Class Boarding Passes.
• While this was happening and afterwards, Qantas staff behind the scenes were arranging for other customers booked on the later flight to be moved to the earlier flight.
• This would likely have reduced those "plenty of seats" to nil (or negative - hoping for no shows).
• Later on, someone with High Value to Qantas checked in wanting Business class seats on the earlier flight (either booked on the earlier flight, moving from the later delayed flight or something else).
• In accommodating this, Qantas decided someone had to be booted from their business class seat to accommodate this need and being in U class; Duffa's number came down.
• ... You know the rest.

To me, the above is very plausible and if indeed close to the matter then this was definitely NOT a downgrade situation.

This, to me, would be tantamount to "Denied Boarding"

 

[amaroo]

I have been moved to an earlier flight at my request when in U class; for me this has always been done at the airport and for the last 15 years or so it does taken a calls or two be the CSA to get permission. Anyway, discussion of U or J or any other class availability is moot here.

Here's what I believe happened:

• Later flight was delayed by 2½ hours.
• Duffa was proactive and on arrival at the airport was able to proactively get moved to the earlier flight.
• It took a visit to the check-in desk, off to the service counter, a call to a Qantas CSA and a re-attendeance to the check-in desk.
• At that time, there are "plenty of seats" (whether U class was available or not at that time is moot; it could easily have been created at the service desk or by the CSA while getting moved).
• They were presented with Business Class Boarding Passes.
• While this was happening and afterwards, Qantas staff behind the scenes were arranging for other customers booked on the later flight to be moved to the earlier flight.
• This would likely have reduced those "plenty of seats" to nil (or negative - hoping for no shows).
• Later on, someone with High Value to Qantas checked in wanting Business class seats on the earlier flight (either booked on the earlier flight, moving from the later delayed flight or something else).
• In accommodating this, Qantas decided someone had to be booted from their business class seat to accommodate this need and being in U class; Duffa's number came down.
• ... You know the rest.

To me, the above is very plausible and if indeed close to the matter then this was definitely NOT a downgrade situation.

This, to me, would be tantamount to "Denied Boarding"

Not the first time this "label" has been mentioned ... http://www.australianfrequentflyer....s-class-again-flight-64460-2.html#post1153027

Denied boarding, Downgraded, Shafted .... the outcomes are all the same.