Downgraded from Business Class.

[JohnK]

Don't ever be downgraded from business class to economy if you purchased cheap companion airfares on sale.

You may find you have to pay extra to sit in your downgraded economy seat. :shock: What a crock.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I think as passengers who regularly book J class fares it would be a good idea to explain how this happened so that others can mitigate the chances of it happening to them.

I don't think it's possible to mitigate the chances of it happening to me. I can't book all my fares directly through QF, I rarely if ever fly in a high fare class, I may not always be Platinum. I have no idea what my PCV is.
I do know that if I'm ever offered the choice to be re-booked later or downgraded on the same aircraft I will always choose the former.

 

[amaroo]

I may be a lone voice but I don't think QF need to explain anything to this forum.

Not alone. Believing QF should explain themselves in detail to this membership is a strange concept.

pretty clear to me that there has been somewhat of a Swiss Cheese effect going on here and EmilyP's parents (amongst others) have landed at the bottom of it.

Based on real life experience - IMO this is a classic case of accepting an outcome too easily. The onboard conversation with the CSM is a dead-set giveaway.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not alone. Believing QF should explain themselves in detail to this membership is a strange concept.

I don't think is it a strange concept to ask a company to fully explain the terms and conditions of the contract you are entering into.

Qantas explains the order in which upgrades are processed, why not the order downgrades are processed?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I am unsubscribing from this thread because the number and frequency of email notifications of new posts is annoying.
Which makes me think that if I was QF I'd be wanting take some action to satisfy the affected customers and shut this thread down.

 

[amaroo]

how is it a strange concept to ask a company to fully explain the terms and conditions of the contract you are entering into?

This is an internet forum A PR/good news channel for QF and others .... nothing more.

 

[DC3]

I am unsubscribing from this thread because the number and frequency of email notifications of new posts is annoying...........

Yes, that's the risk of contributing/subscribing to threads.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Qantas is very happy to use this forum to release news of changes/improvements etc, so why not a further announcement to give people some reassurance. If this is a rare occurrence where things went horribly wrong I would feel a lot happier knowing that, rather than wondering if this is the way of the future. I have been trying hard to think of another scenario where people can pay a not insignificant amount of money for a good/service, not provided with anything other than a bare bones service and then not refunded an adequate amount. I fly for pleasure. If I cannot fly at least J I would not fly overseas and F has become my preferred cabin, to the extent that next year I will be flying Emirates to South Africa via Dubai, rather than direct with Qantas. I don't consider it good enough that an airline can decide to sell more goods than it has (i.e seats) in order to maximise their profit and then when it goes wrong the customer is the one who suffers. I really think it is time consumer affairs looked at this issue and imposed a better regime of compensation. If airlines had to pay adequate amounts it might modify how much they did this - at the moment it is a no lose situation for them. Because we are leisure travelers we would probably always take the next day flight but I would hope on the rare occasions that we couldn't and needed to try and negotiate a solution I wouldn't have staff turning their backs on me and walking off. Seems to me that status doesn't count for anything unless you are P1 or CL.

 

[N860CR]

Some have certain rights enshrined in their EBA ... including highest cabin available.

Not entirely relevant to this thread, but no Qantas EBA has provisions for confirmed seats in the highest available cabin for leisure travel.

 

[UpInTheAir:)]

The fact that the pax checked in very early would suggest, would it not, that QF did not exhaust all possibilities for finding volunteers before choosing to inflict this trajesty on these particular pax, who they probably thought would roll-over ?

If there are other mitigating factors here which we don't know then QF are welcome to explain. If they don't, this forum will continue to draw its own conclusions, which are already clearly to QF's detriment.

Yes.. when did Qantas first become aware of this "overbooking"? Was it an accumulation of delayed/ cancelled flights? And if so, Qantas has everyone's mobile number.. maybe an sms 24hrs in advance to J class/ status passengers that a delay was happening would allow people to contact the airline and plead their case for urgency (if required) and if no urgency required airline/travel insurance could cover additional accommodation/ expenses?

IMO on-line checkin has opened a can of worms for airlines... they like the money (flexible vs discount) but it means no-one really knows who is on the plane until its boarded.

Having said that.. no-one has mentioned similar horror stories on other airlines so maybe Qantas do have an issue.

 

[mannej]

Having said that.. no-one has mentioned similar horror stories on other airlines so maybe Qantas do have an issue.

I would disagree, as overbooking stories on any airline let alone QF are very rare on AFF.

There are some strong views advocating against QF here, but I do feel that PF has sensibly presented a contrasting opinion to the majority, as there are still a few questions that do remain unanswered by all the conjecture.

 

[SpudOz]

Staffers.....Exactly what I was thinking

 

[TomVexille]

I would disagree, as overbooking stories on any airline let alone QF are very rare on AFF.

There are some strong views advocating against QF here, but I do feel that PF has sensibly presented a contrasting opinion to the majority, as there are still a few questions that do remain unanswered by all the conjecture.

Agreed. Unlike on FT where there are plenty of people who attempt to book flights more likely to be oversold so that they can cash in on the compensation for volunteering to take the next flight.

 

[TomVexille]

Staffers.....Exactly what I was thinking

:?: can you elaborate?

 

[MelUser]

A few things:

(1) we'll never get real technical reason. Amadeus altea is the product qantas uses to make all these decisions.

(2) I suspect that a flight centre issued ticket may have influenced decision of algorithm run by qf computer

(3) It really is worth having a look at classic check my trip in the morning of a lax qf departure back to Aus - I've seen upgrades, seat changes and re routes and other things the at computer does.

(4) I wonder if anyone got a points upgrade on this flight - what a tragedy if a points upgrade or staff ticket or industry ticket was allowed on before these downgraded souls.

(5) at lax qf seems to have removed qf staff and replaced them with contractors. Last Friday I noticed that the qantas triangle - ie special qantas check in person in term 4 AA lounge was no longer there. I used to like getting assistance from this dedicated airside qf help/check in desk.

 

[maninblack]

If nothing else this thread indicates that many AFF members are a little shocked that 2 QF gold ff on paid business tickets have been summarily bumped without warning or discussion or apparent proper process. This in itself raises the antennae of all here and makes us wonder. The practice of overselling, has long been controversial and will remain so unless it is stopped.

 

[drron]

There is at least 1 point that says that the US DOT procedure was not followed.Those bumped were not asked first if they would volunteer and told their compensation for doing so.

 

[Princess Fiona]

There is at least 1 point that says that the US DOT procedure was not followed.Those bumped were not asked first if they would volunteer and told their compensation for doing so.

The DOT regulations cover involuntary boarding. They only stipulate :
14CFR250.6 “(c) The passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on the ticket at no extra charge, except that a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged shall be entitled to an appropriate refund”

We have been told that the couple were advised of a $700 refund by the check-in staff after they refused re-booking and advised of the involuntary downgrade.

 

[DaveB]

If nothing else this thread indicates that many AFF members are a little shocked that 2 QF gold ff on paid business tickets have been summarily bumped without warning or discussion or apparent proper process. This in itself raises the antennae of all here and makes us wonder. The practice of overselling, has long been controversial and will remain so unless it is stopped.

Totally agree. With today's systems, overbooking seats is all rather bizarre. I admit I know nothing about airline ticket conditions never buying them but understood you were heavily penalised if you are a no show. If not, seems a no brainer for the airlines to have 100% ticket loss on no shows unless you bought the ultimate ticket allowing you to not even cancel and rebook later, though paying through the nose for the privilege.
We just booked on a Kimberley cruise yesterday for next April being advised cancellation charges are $200 up to 1 January and then a sliding scale up to 100% of the ticket price one month out from sailing.

 

[markis10]

The DOT regulations cover involuntary boarding. They only stipulate :
14CFR250.6 “(c) The passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on the ticket at no extra charge, except that a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged shall be entitled to an appropriate refund”

We have been told that the couple were advised of a $700 refund by the check-in staff after they refused re-booking and advised of the involuntary downgrade.

see CFR 250.9, it's mandated on the written information sheet which MUST be given to any passenger denied boarding involuntarily or otherwise on request:

(b) The statement shall read as follows:
Compensation for Denied Boarding
If you have been denied a reserved seat on (name of air carrier), you are probably entitled to monetary compensation. This notice explains the airline's obligation and the passenger's rights in the case of an oversold flight, in accordance with regulations of the U.S. Department of Transportation.
Volunteers and Boarding Priorities
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline's choosing. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with the following boarding priority of (name of air carrier): (In this space the carrier inserts its boarding priority rules or a summary thereof, in a manner to be understandable to the average passenger.)