Downgraded from Business Class.

[Mr_Orange]

On a brighter note, perhaps there's opportunity for QF for additional revenue here: downgrade insurance. "In the unlikely event that QF require to downgrade your seat from the cabin you've purchased, click here to purchase cabin-guarantee insurance or click here to purchase full-refund insurance". Surely this would be an airline global-first opportunity!!

OT: I don't think we need to give QF any ideas to charge more for their tickets. In any case, what would happen if everyone bought the seat guarantee and the flight was still over-booked.

 

[BD1959]

OT: I don't think we need to give QF any ideas to charge more for their tickets. In any case, what would happen if everyone bought the seat guarantee and the flight was still over-booked.

Then invisible downgrade process #2 would kick-in!! (you really must start thinking like an airline, Mr Orange!)

Regards,

BD

 

[BNEFlyer]

Hi everyone

Thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom and advice, it's very much appreciated. And I never thought the thread would get to this, but it seems that the disservice applied to EmilyP's parents from QF in this case has touched a nerve!

At this stage QF have not yet provided any further updates either via RedRoo or privately to EmilyP's parents since the last update EmilyP provided to us. However when something happens, her or I will advise on here (if possible).

Thanks
BNEFlyer.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hi everyone

Thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom and advice, it's very much appreciated. And I never thought the thread would get to this, but it seems that the disservice applied to EmilyP's parents from QF in this case has touched a nerve!

At this stage QF have not yet provided any further updates either via RedRoo or privately to EmilyP's parents since the last update EmilyP provided to us. However when something happens, her or I will advise on here (if possible).

Thanks
BNEFlyer.

I'm not sure if I missed it but did we have a refund figure provided by Flight Centre yet?

 

[BNEFlyer]

I'm not sure if I missed it but did we have a refund figure provided by Flight Centre yet?

No not as yet. I'm actually unsure as to why Qantas couldn't provide this. Though the tickets were purchased via Flight Centre, it's Qantas who received the money and who were to provide the service.

 

[JohnK]

The DOT regulations cover involuntary boarding. They only stipulate :
14CFR250.6 “(c) The passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on the ticket at no extra charge, except that a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged shall be entitled to an appropriate refund”

We have been told that the couple were advised of a $700 refund by the check-in staff after they refused re-booking and advised of the involuntary downgrade.

As per your quote above how can $700 be considered an appropriate refund when the business class airfare paid is ~$3750 and I am assuming the lowest economy airfare at the time would have been ~$750. It is irrelevant what a full economy aifare costs. That should not come into the calculations.

Qantas stuffed up. Refund both one-way business class airfares in full plus adequate compensation for the inconvenience. Perhaps 50,000 QFF points each.

Problem solved.

 

[DC3]

..... And I never thought the thread would get to this, but it seems that the disservice applied to EmilyP's parents from QF in this case has touched a nerve! ....

And it may make 1,000 posts before it's been sorted out.

 

[Princess Fiona]

As per your quote above how can $700 be considered an appropriate refund when the business class airfare paid is ~$3750 and I am assuming the lowest economy airfare at the time would have been ~$750. It is irrelevant what a full economy aifare costs. That should not come into the calculations.

Qantas stuffed up. Refund both one-way business class airfares in full plus adequate compensation for the inconvenience. Perhaps 50,000 QFF points each.

Problem solved.

No, not solved. The difference is between what was paid and what was travelled ie. Full Y fare

Here's an example from AA

"For prepaid tickets purchased from a travel agency, please contact your travel agent to request a refund. Refundable prepaid tickets will be refunded back to the original form of payment.
Q: I had a First Class (or Business Class) ticket but I actually flew in Coach Class. How do I obtain a refund?
A: First Class and Business Class ticketholders are entitled to a refund in the amount of the difference between the fare paid and the price of a full-fare ticket in the cabin in which the passenger actually flew."

 

[Pushka]

But no one pays full fare economy these days, especially when dates are fixed well in advance.

 

[DC3]

Maybe he was placed in a full Y fare seat then.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Maybe he was placed in a full Y fare seat then.

Indeed that may have been what happened, but there is nothing to prevent an airline creating N, O or Q class inventory to place the passenger in, for a lower fare.

 

[get me outta here]

A grand opportunity for FC to get some kudos here. Hopefully, the 'parents' will point this thread out to FC as once again, this publicity could be priceless either way good and bad.

... did we have a refund figure provided by Flight Centre yet?

 

[medhead]

Qantas needs to at least explain the process for buying a $700 upgrade.

As for the staff defenders. I have personal experience of being told incorrect information that appeared to be designed to ensure seats remained available for staff. Technically, the seats would have been free for the staff members, but only because a paying passenger was told those seats were not available. It has happened once an it is an insult to intelligence to pretend little favours aren't done between staff. It would be unaustralian if they weren't done.

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm not trying to be a smart cough so please forgive me

Frankly I'm appalled at what happened to this poor couple. Whenever I read something like this it spooks me a little as a frequent business traveller. I have spent the last couple of days educating myself so that in the event of a similar thing occurring to myself, family or friends I will know what to do.
My conclusion is that unless your flight is subject to EU regulations you will be sorely disappointed by accepting an involuntary downgrade on any airline

No worries. I WAS being a smart cough

But its sad that experienced travellers like you now feel the need to bone up on things like DoT regulations when contemplating flying airlines such as Qantas!! I for one have given advice to others here about the need to carry printed lounge access rules with them, in response to wrongful rejections by lounge agents.

I haven't reached that stage yet. I'm pretty well prepared when I travel and rarely cut international times fine (not saying others aren't prepared or do cut it fine) and reckon I'd hold my own in a 'discussion' about being bumped from anything pre paid & arranged. In fact I may well relish an unfair or 'non compliant' bumping experience. One of the (few) benefits of having a few miles on one's personal clock is the knowledge to start documentation of disputes early (voice notes into one's smartphone), to 'argue' calmly but directly and not be intimidated by (jumped up) authority. I reckon (hope?) that at the end of the day I may not get on the flight in my booked seat, but would get satisfaction.

 

[maninblack]

No, not solved. The difference is between what was paid and what was travelled ie. Full Y fare

Here's an example from AA

"For prepaid tickets purchased from a travel agency, please contact your travel agent to request a refund. Refundable prepaid tickets will be refunded back to the original form of payment.
Q: I had a First Class (or Business Class) ticket but I actually flew in Coach Class. How do I obtain a refund?
A: First Class and Business Class ticketholders are entitled to a refund in the amount of the difference between the fare paid and the price of a full-fare ticket in the cabin in which the passenger actually flew."

Full Y fare BNE-LAX-BNE is $9560 AUD

 

[Baysider]

They did, but not sure if the Bank will come to the party on this. As they have been told by QF many times - 'When you book a flight with us you are not guaranteed a seat. It's in our T&C's that you agreed to when paying for the flights"

I am 99.99% certain that a credit card chargeback would be successful. Your cc company makes very good money from your business. The rules are plain, if you don't receive what you paid for you are entitled to a chargeback. The full ticket cost should be refunded. Flight Centre (edited - I initially wrote Qantas) will then have to compensate the cc company.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I am 99.99% certain that a credit card chargeback would be successful. Your cc company makes very good money from your business. The rules are plain, if you don't receive what you paid for you are entitled to a chargeback. The full ticket cost should be refunded. Qantas will then have to compensate the cc company.

Isn't the chargeback to Flight Centre though?

 

[Pushka]

I am 99.99% certain that a credit card chargeback would be successful. Your cc company makes very good money from your business. The rules are plain, if you don't receive what you paid for you are entitled to a chargeback. The full ticket cost should be refunded. Qantas will then have to compensate the cc company.

Yes. And this is what the SA Govt have said in their recent TA promos re chargebacks. If you don't get what you paid for then contact your credit card. (I posted this a few pages back).

It will depend on what the transaction says on the cc statement as to who pays it back.

 

[love_the_life]

That's assuming a CC was used to purchase the tickets (I may have missed that bit somewhere) but I know FC used to charge a large fee for the use of CCs, preferring clients to direct debit to the FC account.
We often use Bpay for flight costs - so may need to rethink that for the future.

 

[Princess Fiona]

This is a pretty, good short summary of involuntary downgrades from a US perspective
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8BI10S20121219?irpc=932