Downgraded from Business Class.

[Baysider]

Isn't the chargeback to Flight Centre though?

True, and I'll edit my post to that effect.

Further to the chargeback, the entitlement covers: "services not rendered – merchant unable to provide agreed goods or services". The agreed service was Business Class seats. Flight Centre did not provide the agreed service. More here Transaction Disputes Explained

 

[ABC1]

Like one chap found out when he made the mistake of changing into his J class PJ's prior to the door closing on a SFO/SYD flight. The flight departed with the rest of his family on board while he had to regroup in the terminal dressed as a grey smurf. :shock:



Only if there is a sufficient buffer of seats in the higher cabin that would take into account any commercial pax with an 'opt in' ODU request at the airport ie even an NB with an ODU request trumps any category of staff leisure travel.

You still have to register at least 24 hours for an ODU departure.. there is no facility at the gate to do it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This is a pretty, good short summary of involuntary downgrades from a US perspective
How to handle an airline downgrade

I just found the same article - slightly different location

I then found this thread (January 2013): Qantas Forced downgrade from Premium Eco - Air Travel - Travel

Same situation, pax (Kevin) downgraded from PE to Y and only offered a small refund. Seems like a long period of negotiation turned up little over the original amount offered by QF (they get to determine the level of refund).

At the end of the discussion was this, which is perhaps quite telling, and useful:

[posted by Kevin]

have now been through the airline customer advocate...
we worked out that qantas was lying to her about the amount I paid for the tickets,
She has now adviced that I go through Consumer Affairs Victoria given that she has failed to mediate an acceptable solution..
The advocate I dealt with explained that when Qantas breaks their charter.. there is no mean of repercussion or damages. The airline customer advocate is basically a powerless authority set up the airlines. She also seemed to indicate that once Qantas has decided on a course of action.. there almost no means of changing this.

 

[Cynicor]

Isn't the chargeback to Flight Centre though?

Of my few TA bookings with QF, many have gone through the QF merchant number directly. Expedia Brazil comes to mind, with a charge from expedia and a charge from QF.

The same can happen in AU, but not sure how flight centre work.

 

[Baysider]

Interesting that it was stated that Flight Centre booked pax are bumped first. No doubt connected to the lower prices they have negotiated with carriers to honour their best price claims. Yet another reason to never ever book via Flight Centre.

 

[Anna]

Interesting that it was stated that Flight Centre booked pax are bumped first. No doubt connected to the lower prices they have negotiated with carriers to honour their best price claims. Yet another reason to never ever book via Flight Centre.

I'm wondering whether it might be something to do with Flightcentre holding on to the money until the last possible moment before passing it on to QF, therefore the downgrades might be done as part of something like a "last on, first off" process.

 

[Pushka]

Seems like direct bookings are the way to go these days.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Isn't the chargeback to Flight Centre though?

Of my few TA bookings with QF, many have gone through the QF merchant number directly. Expedia Brazil comes to mind, with a charge from expedia and a charge from QF.

The same can happen in AU, but not sure how flight centre work.

Just checked my last TA booking and it did indeed go through Qantas Air Australia. This is an Australian TA but not FC.

 

[BNEFlyer]

Interesting that it was stated that Flight Centre booked pax are bumped first. No doubt connected to the lower prices they have negotiated with carriers to honour their best price claims. Yet another reason to never ever book via Flight Centre.

I just booked flights to IST next year with Flight Centre. First time I've used a TA for a while, but they price matched an online travel agent, which was cheaper than booking directly with the airline (not QF/EK). I have about 12 hours leeway for delays going over and 4 days coming back. Hopefully I won't need it though.

 

[JohnK]

No, not solved. The difference is between what was paid and what was travelled ie. Full Y fare

No. Full economy is sometimes more expensive than discount business. My earlier example mentions you can be downgraded and have to pay more? Ludicrous.

My solution solves the issue and keeps the customer happy.

Qantas stuffed up. They should in no way be rewarded for stuffing up. In fact they should be made to compensate heavily to discourage them from overselling. What a horrible practice. It's a low act. No two ways about it.

But I guess you and I are not going to agree on this point.

 

[Flying mermaid]

In which case, the compensation proactively offered to any downgraded/IDB PAX needs to substantial so as to be in line with the disservice.

No compensation would be enough to compensate me for ruining my holiday experience by downgrading me from first. I think it depends on whether you view it as a means of transport or more than that. If a means of transport then First is just economy with a few comfort frills. If travelling in F is part of the whole holiday then a downgrade could seriously ruin everything. I totally agree with other posters that a downgrade because of overselling is unacceptable. Downgrades because of aircraft problems which have flowed through to other flights is different. Why people seem to thing it is acceptable just because it has always been done and everyone else does it beats me - sounds like the sort of arguments my teenagers used to use on me....

 

[Baysider]

No. Full economy is sometimes more expensive than discount business. My earlier example mentions you can be downgraded and have to pay more? Ludicrous.

My solution solves the issue and keeps the customer happy.

Qantas stuffed up. They should in no way be rewarded for stuffing up. In fact they should be made to compensate heavily to discourage them from overselling. What a horrible practice. It's a low act. No two ways about it.

But I guess you and I are not going to agree on this point.

I'm with you JohnK

 

[Flying mermaid]

OT: I don't think we need to give QF any ideas to charge more for their tickets. In any case, what would happen if everyone bought the seat guarantee and the flight was still over-booked.

Not hard surely to only sell as many guarantees as the cabin can hold - I know it is a novel idea to know how many seats there are in a class and match the guarantees to that (or even a few less) but they could do it. Not that I think you should have to - I always thought buying a seat in a premium cabin came with a guarantee that I actually had a seat except for aircraft tech problems.

 

[Zerosignal]

Makes me nervous flying first class in LHR and back next year.

My wife and I are on separate tickets for the flight there...

 

[OATEK]

Makes me nervous flying first class in LHR and back next year.

My wife and I are on separate tickets for the flight there...

Is that separate tickets but the same flight? If yes, you can ring and get them linked. I did this with myself on a paid fare and Mrs OATEK on an award ticket, but same flight.

If you are on separate flights, there is always a lottery element.

 

[Princess Fiona]

No. Full economy is sometimes more expensive than discount business. My earlier example mentions you can be downgraded and have to pay more? Ludicrous.

My solution solves the issue and keeps the customer happy.

Qantas stuffed up. They should in no way be rewarded for stuffing up. In fact they should be made to compensate heavily to discourage them from overselling. What a horrible practice. It's a low act. No two ways about it.

But I guess you and I are not going to agree on this point.

No where have I stated that I approved of the Qantas policy. It is however entirely in line with what other airlines do in these circumstances. My post was highlighting this fact by quoting from AA's refund policy.
There is no way that QF are going to change their policy to anything more generous than other comparable airlines.

 

[Hvr]

Not hard surely to only sell as many guarantees as the cabin can hold - I know it is a novel idea to know how many seats there are in a class and match the guarantees to that (or even a few less) but they could do it. Not that I think you should have to - I always thought buying a seat in a premium cabin came with a guarantee that I actually had a seat except for aircraft tech problems.

It would be easy to do but there would be a huge catch. Once you've purchased your seat there are no changes or refunds for any reason whatsoever.

Airlines are caught between a rock and a hard place with seating and generally manage it well which is why this thread has had lots of responses and views,

 

[Zerosignal]

Is that separate tickets but the same flight? If yes, you can ring and get them linked. I did this with myself on a paid fare and Mrs OATEK on an award ticket, but same flight.

If you are on separate flights, there is always a lottery element.

Same flight, I have already called and had a link established both ways on the tickets - but you never know a single person on a PNR might look like a tempting swap out.

 

[medhead]

Overselling is not the issue as such. The real issue is how it's handled. Handing someone economy boarding passes, a cup of tea and a biscuit and then walking away is not the way to handle the situation.

 

[jsoprano]

No where have I stated that I approved of the Qantas policy. It is however entirely in line with what other airlines do in these circumstances. My post was highlighting this fact by quoting from AA's refund policy.
There is no way that QF are going to change their policy to anything more generous than other comparable airlines.

Then the policy is what's the issue. You can look at it this way: what's the advantage/reason to buy a full-fare Y ticket: flexibility. Have the downgraded pax had any benefit of this? No. So why should they pay for it then?

One could also argue once they were handed the Y boarding passes, they could have just walked off the plane again and cancelled their ticket for a full refund (I am sure this would work on a Y fare?). Would QF have refunded them the cost of a full Y fare? I doubt it.