Downgraded from Business Class.

[JohnK]

Funnily enough yes.
Do you think that isn't the case ?

I don't think we have been told the truth.

If there were staff or friends of staff given a business class seat or another status flyer had been mistakenly accommodated in business then I wouldn't expect the truth in this thread.

Everything else has been secretive why release that information?

 

[DC3]

..... What do you expect them to tell us? The truth?

Funnily enough yes.
Do you think that isn't the case ?

I would like to be told the truth, but wouldn't bank on it.

 

[amaroo]

<snip>

Qantas staff do lie, as do other airlines, when it suits

Like when they tell you in the lounge the seat is faulty...

 

[maninblack]

IIRC status is generally not considered, the sequence number is the magical number.

I think this is unlikely.

 

[RAM]

There was a post that FC bookings are the first to be shunted, I guess because FC has some kind of deal with QF to sell lower priced tickets. Also FC charge ridiculous fees for any actions on their part, and that surely would have included some cut out of the refund process. As with all things travel related (flights, hire cars, hotels, etc), those who book direct are treated better. None of that excuses what happened though !

No not true - at least in two cases with Q I wrote about earlier in this thread. Fares directly booked with Q, as Gold FF and not late to check in for either flight. In both cases I and a work colleague were bumped for in 1 a Q staffer in uniform in the other Q or relatives not in uniform. In each case they 'were not happy Jan' as they were pulled off the flight once I called for the Q airport duty manager (I forget the correct title).

I'm going to take a slightly different take to a few posters here.

In my view OP's parents should view the total compensation offered as approx $3000. Few reasons,

1. The 'ex-gratia' payment at airport. This is definitely part of compensation.
For those who chose to wait till the next day to fly in the J cabin - their compensation is this $700 for arriving 24hrs later, plus hotels, food etc looked after
For the OPs parents, the compensation is $700 plus the fare difference by schedule (as returned at a later datE).

This cash payment is a requirement of the US Dept of Transportation. Q had no choice. Outstanding Qn - Did Q LAX provide a written copy of their rights as required?

2. The 'additional' $500 voucher and 50k points. This was seemingly provided as part of a general discussion about the downgrade and behaviour of the agents at LAX (I assume). Now not many details have been provided about the actual behaviour of agents in LAX, but if QF gave $1000 value for each coughpy experience with an employee, I would be very rich, and they would be broke. Again I think most (if not all) of this payment is an overall payment by QF for the downgrade.

No it is not 'true' compensation as it is tied to flying with Q again or redeeming through Q's FF store - either way tied requirement is questionable.

I don't believe OP has published anything about what they actually paid. But looking at October 2015.
BNE-JFK return can be had for $8600 in J, and $2100 in Y (looking at cheapest fares)
So the difference is $6500 (Obviously different dates will give different results - but I suspect this is ballpark)
Now the OPs parents were downgraded for 13hrs out of a 36hr journey (one leg out of four) (ie 36% of total journey)
About $2350 applying this percentage to the fare difference.

So in this respect I would view the overall QF compensation as fair, albeit certainly not overgenerous.
--
I agree the downgraded fare table itself (1200/1250) is pretty poor, but I believe in all these situations that a payment at the airport is generally made, so in my mind this needs to be included as part of the overall package (and is potentially reflected in the table) (presumably QF also has rules about airport payments)

Where I think QF has let themselves down in this situation is:

a. Seemingly the agent behaviour at check-in
b. The communication with the OPs parents - seemingly not enough, and simple things like telling them how much the refund would be, and proactively quickening the refund process via Flight Centre, were not done
c. Not fully explaining why these pax were selected for downgrade (per OPs post they had checked in early and were SG members). RedRoo posted a generic statement but it didn't seem to answer the question

While some on this board also think the number of thread views should make QF more generous, I actually think it has the opposite effect. I suspect they are being very cautious here not to set a precedent.

The accusation by Q's official mouthpiece Red Roo aka Social Media Communications Team (full-time paid employees) that the party had misrepresented the facts etc, that RR then tried to point the finger of blame at the Agent (but did not name FC note) - was the agent Q wholesale per chance? That RR posted refund paid two weeks ago BUT notified the parents this morning, that this had dragged on so long:

All suggests a deliberate Q policy aimed at wearing out aggrieved customers and not amicably resolving the problem - IMHO.

 

[RAM]

RAM have I missed the post where you provided any feedback you received from DOT?

The thread was closed.

There was a back-and-forth series of emails with the US DoT which got to the point that the Parents need to take over.

I PM'd EmilyP with the result and hope that the parents will follow through with the US DoT.

It may well result in Q's suspended $45k fine from Jan 2014, for not informing passengers of their rights under US Law, becomes payable. If it does that will be published on the DoT's consent order site.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

And as as for Qantas "lying", they do! I travelled to LAX on a delayed QF and was constantly reassured by the cabin crew that the connecting flight to JFK would wait for our flight.

I became suspicious upon landing when the PA arced up and called out some pax names with a few doctors in the mix. They were quickly ushered off and the plebs (me included) were herded into the arrivals hall to be told that the connecting flight had just departed.

It seemed only F & J pax made the flight. We were relegated to a delta flight 8 hours later and they lost some of our bags as well.

I'm sure if the cabin crew told you the connecting flight would wait then that was the plan at the time but in the ever changing world of aviation at some point they had to get the flight away to JFK & Ops in SYD had to amend the original plan.

It's easy for people to think that the only thing that matters is them & their LAX/JFK flight but what about all the pax flying JFK/LAX on the return sector connecting to MEL on QF94, SYD on QF12 or even those booked on the QF108 to SYD.

Obviously timing was critical here and to delay the flight even further & wait for everyone would have impacted far more people on multiple flights in the other direction.

You wouldn't want J class pax missing QF12 as the only option left would be QF16 to BNE which might be full in J & potentially create the scenario that could easily have been EmilyP's parents.

I don't think we have been told the truth.

If there were staff or friends of staff given a business class seat or another status flyer had been mistakenly accommodated in business then I wouldn't expect the truth in this thread.

It's not possible to"'mistakenly" put someone from a lower cabin into a higher cabin such as J. Any upgrades have to have an appropriate category assigned to them eg pax with 'opt-in' points upgrade requests have a particular upgrade category if they haven't already received it the upgrade the day prior.

There's no such thing as 'what happens in LAX (or insert appropriate city code here) stays in LAX' as it's not difficult for anybody to view who's been upgraded.

I don't believe for a minute that any staff or friends of staff were in J or PE. That notion has been done to death. There are many more likely scenarios I can think of none of which involve the above.

 

[Baysider]

It may well result in Q's suspended $45k fine from Jan 2014, for not informing passengers of their rights under US Law, becomes payable. If it does that will be published on the DoT's consent order site.

Well QF would only have themselves to blame !

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The thread was closed.

There was a back-and-forth series of emails with the US DoT which got to the point that the Parents need to take over.

I PM'd EmilyP with the result and hope that the parents will follow through with the US DoT.

It may well result in Q's suspended $45k fine from Jan 2014, for not informing passengers of their rights under US Law, becomes payable. If it does that will be published on the DoT's consent order site.

Can you please provide what the DOT said regarding informing passengers of their rights? (ie which rights the DOT said they needed to be informed of?)

While I appreciate the passengers themselves will need to take any formal action directly with the DOT, the basic premise of which rights the passengers had, and the circumstances in which those arise are something which will benefit us all.

 

[maninblack]

No not true - at least in two cases with Q I wrote about earlier in this thread. Fares directly booked with Q, as Gold FF and not late to check in for either flight. In both cases I and a work colleague were bumped for in 1 a Q staffer in uniform in the other Q or relatives not in uniform. In each case they 'were not happy Jan' as they were pulled off the flight once I called for the Q airport duty manager (I forget the correct title).

Now we all know this simply cannot ever happen
Interested to know how long ago this was though and was it domestic or international?

 

[Pushka]

Just curious and might have been covered. Were status credit points given at the booked rate (J) or what was actually flown (Y).

 

[DC3]

Just curious and might have been covered. Were status credit points given at the booked rate (J) or what was actually flown (Y).

Ah. ORC, eh?

 

[Pushka]

Ah. ORC, eh?

I'm having some issues re an operational cancellation from Q and rebooked on JQ. Zero credit and Zero FF.

 

[love_the_life]

I'm having some issues re an operational cancellation from Q and rebooked on JQ. Zero credit and Zero FF.

Was that MrP's appalling trip from Hobart to Adelaide via Melbourne recently. I can think of a word to describe them then....but not in polite company.
See QM2 had some very cheap cruises.......:mrgreen:

 

[Pushka]

Was that MrP's appalling trip from Hobart to Adelaide via Melbourne recently. I can think of a word to describe them then....but not in polite company.
See QM2 had some very cheap cruises.......:mrgreen:

Yep that's it. The trip that keeps on giving.

And some fantastic value in those QM2 sales.

Up for 2016?

 

[whatmeworry]

Like most Adults on this forum, I have elderly parents and after reading this thread I can't say I would trust QF with the care of my parents whether they were in Y to F.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Like most Adults on this forum, I have elderly parents and after reading this thread I can't say I would trust QF with the care of my parents whether they were in Y to F.

My parents are in their 60's and after reading this thread I can say that I will continue to trust QF to take care of my parents whenever they fly with them.
I wouldn't however in a million years get them to accept an involuntary downgrade over flying in the same cabin the next day.
This was my thoughts before this thread and its most definitely my thoughts afterwards.

 

[Nizar]

My parents are in their 60's and after reading this thread I can say that I will continue to trust QF to take care of my parents whenever they fly with them.
I wouldn't however in a million years get them to accept an involuntary downgrade over flying in the same cabin the next day.
This was my thoughts before this thread and its most definitely my thoughts afterwards.

Really ? So this thread hasn't eroded your trust in QF in the slightest ? It certainly has for me.

Might be more difficult to accept the option of flying the next day if one of your parents had a specialist appointment for the afternoon of arrival, an appointment that was only booked on that specific day due to a collapse in your health whilst on holiday, and an appointment that could not have easily been scheduled for another day due to the specialists availability and an appointment that if cancelled would mean waiting a few months for when the specialist is next available.

 

[RB]

Really ? So this thread hasn't eroded your trust in QF in the slightest ? It certainly has for me.

Might be more difficult to accept the option of flying the next day if one of your parents had a specialist appointment for the afternoon of arrival, an appointment that was only booked on that specific day due to a collapse in your health whilst on holiday, and an appointment that could not have easily been scheduled for another day due to the specialists availability and an appointment that if cancelled would mean waiting a few months for when the specialist is next available.

The situation you describe CAN happen. BUT there are also 1,000's of flights a day where the hassles the OP's parents encountered DO NOT occur. Just my opinion but many posters on here seem to be running scared of what is actually a very rare occurence. The handling of the problem doesn't seem to have been well done but the problem is very rare. There may have been 1,300 odd posts but many of them are repetition or have added no new information and the 88,000 odd views does not mean 88,000 odd people have seen it.
The situation was far from ideal for the parents involved but the frequency of this problem has been overlooked by many posters. I am not sure if some posters have looked back at their posts and now think they may have allowed their emotions to outweigh logic

 

[Princess Fiona]

Really ? So this thread hasn't eroded your trust in QF in the slightest ? It certainly has for me.

Might be more difficult to accept the option of flying the next day if one of your parents had a specialist appointment for the afternoon of arrival, an appointment that was only booked on that specific day due to a collapse in your health whilst on holiday, and an appointment that could not have easily been scheduled for another day due to the specialists availability and an appointment that if cancelled would mean waiting a few months for when the specialist is next available.

Yes, really. I'm generally in the habit of posting what I think.
It has not eroded my trust in QF at all.
No specialist appointment is worth all the hassle that these passengers had to go through IMO.