Downgraded from Business Class.

[Pushka]

But when it happens to you the odds of it happening are pretty irrelevant aren't they.

People expect things to go wrong - weather, equipment failure etc etc. But that isn't what happened here. Business class seats were booked, paid for, then practically speaking, those seats were sold again. (ie overbooked) and paid for again.

Clearly our business model is wrong. We only sell what we know we can provide.

And I'm just betting there isn't one person who has read this thread who will now not always check in online as soon as they possibly can, or be very worried they might be shafted if they are unable to do that in advance of the airport.

If that isn't an erosion of trust I don't know what is.

EmilyP's parents aren't Doctors. They are aged. And worried having had a medical scare overseas. I'm sure that keeping that specialist appointment was extremely important to them.

 

[Nizar]

The situation you describe CAN happen. BUT there are also 1,000's of flights a day where the hassles the OP's parents encountered DO NOT occur. Just my opinion but many posters on here seem to be running scared of what is actually a very rare occurence. The handling of the problem doesn't seem to have been well done but the problem is very rare. There may have been 1,300 odd posts but many of them are repetition or have added no new information and the 88,000 odd views does not mean 88,000 odd people have seen it.
The situation was far from ideal for the parents involved but the frequency of this problem has been overlooked by many posters. I am not sure if some posters have looked back at their posts and now think they may have allowed their emotions to outweigh logic

Do a search on AFF the past month on the QF section and see how many "Downgraded from Business Class" threads there are. Perhaps not as rare as you think.

In fact a downgrade probably happens more often than a QF op-up lol

 

[medhead]

The situation you describe CAN happen. BUT there are also 1,000's of flights a day where the hassles the OP's parents encountered DO NOT occur. Just my opinion but many posters on here seem to be running scared of what is actually a very rare occurence. The handling of the problem doesn't seem to have been well done but the problem is very rare. There may have been 1,300 odd posts but many of them are repetition or have added no new information and the 88,000 odd views does not mean 88,000 odd people have seen it.
The situation was far from ideal for the parents involved but the frequency of this problem has been overlooked by many posters. I am not sure if some posters have looked back at their posts and now think they may have allowed their emotions to outweigh logic

One observation, I don't believe there is a rule that every post has to add new information. I also had the impression that discussion was allowed. I'm not sure why a few people seem to be getting all upset about no new information being added and are trying to shut down discussion. Another option would be to stop reading if you don't like people discussing a topic.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Might be more difficult to accept the option of flying the next day if one of your parents had a specialist appointment for the afternoon of arrival,

EmilyP's parents were originally booked to fly ex LAX on Thu 16 Oct arriving Sat am 18 Oct. If they did opt to travel one day later they would've arrived am Sun 19 Oct which was still the day prior to their medical appointment - not the morning of the appointment as you suggest.

I'm sure we've all been in situations when we just want to get home and the prospect of staying another 24 hours seems like an eternity in some countries.

ISTR they also had a significant amount of checked luggage so the last thing some people would want to do is lug all that back to the hotel and repeat the exercise the next day.

 

[Nizar]

One observation, I don't believe there is a rule that every post has to add new information. I also had the impression that discussion was allowed. I'm not sure why a few people seem to be getting all upset about no new information being added and are trying to shut down discussion. Another option would be to stop reading if you don't like people discussion a topic.

Well said my friend, I agree wholly

 

[mannej]

Do a search on AFF the past month on the QF section and see how many "Downgraded from Business Class" threads there are. Perhaps not as rare as you think.

In fact a downgrade probably happens more often than a QF op-up lol

Apart from this thread, tell me another thread where a member was downgraded. Not bumped back to the original flight.

Hard to suggest it is a regular occurrence by your inference.

 

[medhead]

Apart from this thread, tell me another thread where a member was downgraded. Not bumped back to the original flight.

Hard to suggest it is a regular occurrence by your inference.

You've mentioned it already in your post. Move forward, downgraded and then bumped back to their flight. At least you're consistent in trying to pretend something didn't happen.

 

[mannej]

You've mentioned it already in your post. Move forward, downgraded and then bumped back to their flight. At least you're consistent in trying to pretend something didn't happen.

I am not pretending something didn't happen and I've been very clear in that. I am not one to jump on a bandwagon without looking at the full set of facts behind a situation.

 

[Nizar]

Apart from this thread, tell me another thread where a member was downgraded. Not bumped back to the original flight.

Hard to suggest it is a regular occurrence by your inference.

I don't have time to read every the contents of every single thread I come across but from time to time I do tend to browse to see what topics are being discussed.

In the weeks/months since this thread has been going I have seen other threads popping up in the QF section that had titles along the likes of "Downgraded from Business Class again !" and "Downgraded yet again !" etc. I saw at least two threads with such headlines not including this one.

If in the contents of these threads the OP did actually not describe a situation where they or someone they know actually got downgraded, then perhaps I was mistaken, and for that I apologise.

But when I see a thread title I assume the contents of the thread is as per the title.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I don't have time to read every the contents of every single thread I come across but from time to time I do tend to browse to see what topics are being discussed.

In the weeks/months since this thread has been going I have seen other threads popping up in the QF section that had titles along the likes of "Downgraded from Business Class again !" and "Downgraded yet again !" etc. I saw at least two threads with such headlines not including this one.

If in the contents of these threads the OP did actually not describe a situation where they or someone they know actually got downgraded, then perhaps I was mistaken, and for that I apologise.

But when I see a thread title I assume the contents of the thread is as per the title.

There was such a thread title and it was moderated later to reflect what actually happened.
The OP's original flight was delayed and after asking (successfully) to be moved forward to the earlier flight they were then paged in the Lounge to advise that they would need to travel on their original delayed flight.
The alternative being to travel in Y on the flight they had been moved to.

There are various interpretations amongst us of what that situation amounts to.

There was also a thread where someone was downgraded to Y on a SYD-NRT flight but at the last minute re-instated to J.

That's the only other threads I am aware of.
I do not believe that taken together these show that QF is downgrading mass numbers of passengers.

 

[Danger]

Like most Adults on this forum, I have elderly parents and after reading this thread I can't say I would trust QF with the care of my parents whether they were in Y to F.

Not my parents, no. But my in-laws? Well . . .

 

[BD1959]

The situation you describe CAN happen. BUT there are also 1,000's of flights a day where the hassles the OP's parents encountered DO NOT occur. Just my opinion but many posters on here seem to be running scared of what is actually a very rare occurence. The handling of the problem doesn't seem to have been well done but the problem is very rare.

But therein lies the issue!

Of course QF handles hundreds of flights per week, tens of thousands per year -and of course the vast majority depart and arrive on time. Some arrive a little late etc.

Occasionally things will go wrong. In this instance it was as a direct result of a QF decision. Again, that usually would go unnoticed by everyone on that flight.

The big differentiator between a full-service airline and an LCC is the service recovery when things do go awry.

The major difference between QF and other full-service airlines has (IMHO) been the handling of IRROPS and issues. I've also been of the opinion that status is one factor in avoiding situations such as EmilyP's parents found themselves in.

QF fares come at a premium, I do not believe that premium is solely to cover a pension fund, I happen to believe that it should contribute to the lessening of risk of things going awry.

My big learning's from this thread are:

1. What the customer thinks is fair and what QF think is fair can be poles apart - especially when the customer have gone out of their way (very early physical check-in) to avoid such

2. When the customer thinks "fair" QF will talk T&Cs - in this sense QF are no different to any other full service airline, despite their fare premium

3. When all else fails, in situations such as this, my QF status counts for nought - despite my loyalty (and having paid that premium to achieve it)

Mindful of the above - and interesting in the absence of an explicitly statement from Red Roo to say "sorry, this *is* extremely rare, this is how our process should work..." of course it dents your confidence. If it didn't there wouldn't be the responses above as to QFFs now altering their check-in habits...until that proves not to be the "saviour"!!

Regards,

BD

 

[timster]

Ok, I'll stick my neck out. Where is the "company representative"* now ? How about justifying $1200 for downgrade from J to Y, ie a fraction of the real price difference ?

The company reprentative has highlighted on more than occasion how $1200 is more than adequate refund for downgrade from business to economy.

Here are the company representatives' responses to this thread:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/search.php?searchid=7891896

If you can find a justification for the $1200 refund there you're seeing something that I'm not.

 

[love_the_life]

To refresh memories, there was also a thread (different from the one with the changed flight), regarding travel to Tokyo (?) where almost the same thing occurred though I think the person had advance warning, then as it turned out did manage to fly in the class booked on the day booked. We do not hear about all the people who are put up overnight because of overbooking and I bet it happens quite frequently. In EmilyP's case, the travellers were not able to stay overnight - if they had we probably would not be having this discussion (136 pages, 1353 posts). It was the way QF dealt with them, the poor support that seems to have been provided and the washing of corporate hands that has led to this. I would contend that it has eroded trust. People have believed (it seems wrongly) that should things go wrong, they will be treated fairly and secondly that having status will help to avoid issues.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If you can find a justification for the $1200 refund there you're seeing something that I'm not.

On 17 November I asked the QF Rep if they could ask the relevant department to give us a quick outline of how refunds are calculated. Red Roo acknowledged the request but since then I don't think we've had any update?

(see posts 978/979 of this thread)

 

[Flying mermaid]

Apart from this thread, tell me another thread where a member was downgraded. Not bumped back to the original flight.

Hard to suggest it is a regular occurrence by your inference.

Had a friend who was downgraded from Premium economy to Economy in March - out of LAX. I have been giving her all the info from here re online checkin etc....

 

[QF WP]

Really ? So this thread hasn't eroded your trust in QF in the slightest ? It certainly has for me.

Might be more difficult to accept the option of flying the next day if one of your parents had a specialist appointment for the afternoon of arrival, an appointment that was only booked on that specific day due to a collapse in your health whilst on holiday, and an appointment that could not have easily been scheduled for another day due to the specialists availability and an appointment that if cancelled would mean waiting a few months for when the specialist is next available.

To me, all it has done is question the service recovery model. As unlikely as it would be in the future for my parents to be flying longhaul, if they did it would be in premium cabins. I'd give the same instructions to my parents as Princess Fiona would to hers

 

[Moody]

If some muppet like Tony Abbott can successfully scrape off a few political "barnacles" then it reflects very badly on AFF that even the simplest concept on this thread has to be eaten and vomited up again and again and again.

All airlines have situations where the number of pax wishing to fly in a certain class of travel is greater than the number of seats available. When such situations occur there are various techniques employed to deal with the situation, but ALL of them result in some pax either not flying in their designated class or not flying at all. THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBLE OUTCOME.

Believe it or not airlines don't want to start fights with their customers and so try to enourage pax to volunteer by offering inducements to delay travel, or make veiled threats ("if 4 of you don't volunteer then the plane can't take off"), but as a last resort will have to pick victims. Of course no one believes it should be them, but that is pretty normal human ego/arrogance/elitism at work. Nothing to see there.

The OP had the option of delaying travel by a day, and getting a free night's accommodation and some spending money to boot. They declined that option and made it home on the original flight, so they got their way. Unfortunately one seat was downgraded so Qantas in turn had its way with the pax, vis-a-vis the paltry refund calculation.

But this is AFF, and as Medhead points out there is no reason not to prattle endlessly about how Qantas should have waived its magic wand and created J seats out of thin air, or simply have selected someone else to be bumped rather than the relative of an AFF member. In fact why don't we suggest this is written into the rulebook at Qantas - the "anyone but an AFF member" rule.

No??? Well in that case I have tar, feathers and rope going cheap for Christmas.

 

[OATEK]

This is a story about how a vulnerable, elderly couple, with QF Gold status, were singled out for poor treatment by an airline promoting itself on the basis of bringing people home. It doesn't matter how much you challenge the facts, this has hit a nerve with many AFFers, but apparently not with QF and some supporters.

Whether or not the elderly couple with health problems could have afforded an extra day's travel, they should have been looked after better by QF, during and after. As far as I am concerned they were not looked after as befitted their age and health issues, and I continue to regard it as a huge black mark against QF.

 

[Kangol]

Had a friend who was downgraded from Premium economy to Economy in March - out of LAX. I have been giving her all the info from here re online checkin etc....

What was the situation with your friend? Did she end up travelling on the same flight in Y? I'm sure a few of us would be interested in the details - may be better to start a new thread I guess..