Downgraded without notification - what are my options?

[SydneySwan]

Unfortunately, we all know Qantas would never do anything like that.

Which of course is the essence of the problem.

 

[PERLHR]

Were they pilots flying to duty? Cabin crew don't get business class unless seats are available I believe.

I support pilots getting J class if it aides their later flying.

No idea. I never asked but the 4 of them were all Scottish, flying ex GLA in uniform. I only asked for more champagne....,,,,,

 

[bullerdude]

Given that this is a non-negotiable requirement (tech crew in J, sometimes at late notice), and its done knowing that paying pax will be bumped if necessary, there should be an easily implementable, automatic compensation notified to the pax at the gate, or service desk of, say $500 or 50,000 points (arbitrary figures for domestic) and then paid. Qantas has to downgrade, its a special bumping case, pax will be disappointed, just do it automatically.

Unfortunately, we all know Qantas would never do anything like that.

Yep, I totally underhand that last minute requirements will see pilots bumping J passengers due to EBA when they are flying for operational purposes. Personally, I don’t mind them flying J given they will need to safely operates a flight right after or later in the day.

Agree that’s it disappointing Qantas doesn’t implement a better service recovery process for impacted customer… as you say, automated refund and compensation, even if just a future free upgrade to business.

 

[PERLHR]

Personally, I don’t mind them flying J given they will need to safely operates a flight right after or later in the day.

Agree that’s it disappointing Qantas doesn’t implement a better service recovery process for impacted customer… as you say, automated refund and compensation, even if just a future free upgrade to business.

Personally I do mind: it's bad planning by Qantas in my view and the poor pax who could be paying a fortune to fly biz and perhaps also has his/her reasons to be flying business as bought is penalised. Frankly I think it's a nonsense!

 

[bullerdude]

Personally I do mind: it's bad planning by Qantas in my view and the poor pax who could be paying a fortune to fly biz and perhaps also has his/her reasons to be flying business as bought is penalised. Frankly I think it's a nonsense!

If they know of the need to fly pilots day/weeks in advance, then, yes, it would be bad planning.

In the event of a last minute operational requirement, e.g., pilots call in sick so they need to get a crew positioned at short notice, Im not sure how the can plan for all events.

I have experienced being bumped and while it sucks given the enjoying from flying business, if they were honest and automatically provided refund, points back and compensation as service recovery, then it’s more an inconvenience than anything.

The biggest sting is often when they lie about the reasons because they don’t want to deal with the passenger and make it your problem to seek the compensation. That definitely leaves a sour taste!

 

[RichardMEL]

Personally I do mind: it's bad planning by Qantas in my view and the poor pax who could be paying a fortune to fly biz and perhaps also has his/her reasons to be flying business as bought is penalised. Frankly I think it's a nonsense!

Well, with no disrespect to the Oranges, but they were on U tickets. I have a feeling full revenue J would be last on the list. Iirc @Pushka was also on a CR. Doesn't make it right as they each still paid for J, but it is a little different.

that aside, to the point about poor planning. Crew travel in cabin all the time. When scheduled it's no issue because upgrade requests would make way for them.

I'll make an assumption here, but this clearly was a last minute requirement. Now could they not get two pilots into PER from closer than BNE? You'd think so, but threre are probably logistical reasons why these two had to go and on that flight. Lets say someone in PER was out sick suddenly or naybe an A330 crew was stuck and could not get to PER. whatever.

If you're in business can you always plan for a staff member being sick? Or a family emergency? Or stuck in BNE because QF offloaded them for some stick jockeys? No yiu can't possibly know days in advance. cough happens. And must have been something to pull from BNE to PER imo.

I'm not trying to defend this and it appears anecdotally that this has been happening more (last minute tech crew travel affecting J pax), but trying to see the other side. QF, like MANY industries, are having staff issues (and that WA industrial action too com to think of it, and you can't always plan for the unexpected.

Then it comes down to a choice of disrupting two pax vs potentially 100+

Imo while yes, need to reduce the instance of this happening - and nobody here knows the exact situation, for me it is the QF handling. Not great for The Oranges (who were handled poorly in Zbne and only through soeaking up onboard got a good service focused CSM) and @Pushka got a worse outcome and treatment (pulled from seats imce board iirc)..

QF need to improve a) handling of such situations as part of b) service recovery.

I think most people know Stuff Happens - but as always it is the handling of it that is something you remember.

For example, last year I was caught in a massive UA meltdown trying to gead east. I got shafted from cancelled flight to cancelled flight to a whacky routing stopping places I never planned to see. What do I remember? All tge agents on tge phone and on the ground who did tgeir best - including one legend in Vegas at 1am who got me out of there when it looked hopeless - and the next day an automatic compensation email and miles. coughtastuc situation for tens of thousands of people, but I remember the positives of how it was handled (in tge main)

So yeah QF are not the best in these kinds of situations - and that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Mr_Orange]

I would follow it up straight away.

From reading other posts the refund may be automatic, or may not. No harm in sending an email, just in case.

I received a "How was Qantas?" survey email so have used that to give them a serve and follow up on the promised refund.

I also acknowledged the efforts of the onboard CSM.

 

[JohnK]

That's not how the program works, as it has been said before.
Leisure staff travellers do not bump any commercial fare.
Corporate staff do not bump any commercial fare.
Mainline pilots are the only ones who are entitled to J class whilst on duty travel.

I respect your input on this forum but I have zero trust in what Qantas does anymore and I think many feel the same.

The solution to brand image is simple.

Stop inconveniencing customers and treat everyone fairly and if you do mistreat them make it worth their while, not watch them grovel to get what is owed. Compensate them more than enough and treat them with dignity.

 

[equus]

In the event of a last minute operational requirement,

That is what Qantas would like you to think - as it makes it look better for them, and they can then invoke various exceptions in the conditions of carriage - but this is not an operational requirement, it is a commercial decision.

An operational requirement would affect the flight in question - so things like changing for broken seats, need to have able bodied persons in the exit seats etc. Where there is some need to reposition tech crew for some other flight, it is a commercial decision by Qantas that this is the best way to do it to minimise their costs (potential to have to cancel the other flight, extended delays, flow on effects etc.). As such, that commercial decision should also factor in the provision of fair compensation to those they decide matter less to them. In no way does this mean I disagree that the tech crew should be travelling in J - just that Qantas needs to be honest that they are making a commercial decision to disadvantage passengers for their own profit - and then trying to weasel out of their obligations.

 

[MrJetset]

Well, with no disrespect to the Oranges, but they were on U tickets. I have a feeling full revenue J would be last on the list. Iirc @Pushka was also on a CR. Doesn't make it right as they each still paid for J, but it is a little different.

I've said it ad nauseam - downgrades occur in order of fare class and status. A WP in U Class is going to be downgraded before a NB on full J.

 

[Mr_Orange]

Update: The difference in points have been refunded. There weren't $$ due because I had actually covered the entire booking, including the ++, with points. No compensation beyond that organised by the on board CSM. I'm happy with that purely because we had a great trip (despite the downgrade), the return flight went without a hitch and I really can't face dealing with Qantas' Customer Services.

The main lesson for QF though is to massively improve their "at the time" service recovery.

Thanks for listening .

 

[Pushka]

Update: The difference in points have been refunded. There weren't $$ due because I had actually covered the entire booking, including the ++, with points. No compensation beyond that organised by the on board CSM. I'm happy with that purely because we had a great trip (despite the downgrade), the return flight went without a hitch and I really can't face dealing with Qantas' Customer Services.

The main lesson for QF though is to massively improve their "at the time" service recovery.

Thanks for listening .

Thanks for reporting back.

 

[Matt_01]

Interesting to read that it happens to P1's though (and really surprised by that). When it happened to me I was temporarily down to Silver, and was told based on their policy that it was the person with the lowest QFF status that got bumped to Y. Although the QF staff member was very kind when she had to do the downgrade, she spent a couple minutes complaining about how bad the policy was

I should have provided more detail, most of my P1 involuntary downgrades were normally domestic when the inbound international flight was delayed and I missed the original domestic connection. For domestic only flights most of these were IRROPS related.

 

[miniyazz]

To update on my case, I waited a few weeks until my SCs and DSC posted (which came through as U with PC) and then called to request the points difference. Didn't ask for compensation and it took almost 40 minutes to get that far - most of which was on hold after getting through to an agent.
They couldn't tell me on the phone how many points would be refunded, but that it would be done within a few days - apparently the backend staff needed to work it out..
Lo and behold, I received credit of 27600 and debit of 19800 points 7 days later.
I think the cash part is the same for U and X class.

So all in all, annoying but not the end of the world, and about a 20% discount on the cost of the status credits for that half of the trip (at my usual calculated value per point)