Earn points on Bank Transfers

[Danger]

How do we set up Payall for the next few years. I thought 2 years was the limit to be set up just before Oct 23. Edit: just reread the above posts!! I get it now. Cheers

You can then set up an identical one to begin in 25 months for a further 24…

 

[mick]

Do Payall transactions count as an “eligible retail purchase” for the purpose of meeting the minimum spend required for sign up bonus points?

I just got the points and I had only half of the required amount in proper transactions with the rest PayAll. So yes.

On a related topic, would both PayAll and retail spend also count as "eligible purchases" towards the $48,000 required spend in an account year to reduce the annual fee from $350 to $175? Does anyone have first-hand experience with this?

 

[Danger]

On a related topic, would both PayAll and retail spend also count as "eligible purchases" towards the $48,000 required spend in an account year to reduce the annual fee from $350 to $175? Does anyone have first-hand experience with this?

I'm almost certain it does, yes. I only paid $175 in the second year and I wouldn't have spent more than $6K or so, outside of PayAll, certainly absolutely no way near $48K.

 

[mick]

I'm almost certain it does, yes. I only paid $175 in the second year and I wouldn't have spent more than $6K or so, outside of PayAll, certainly absolutely no way near $48K.

Nice one, thanks @Danger - that makes sense and lines up with my assumptions. It would have been difficult for me to justify keeping the card at $350.

 

[MELso]

The $100 promo for my first PayAll lobbed into my credit card account this morning...

 

[jasrulz63]

Does anyone know if the statement due date is the same every month regardless of month length? +/- a day or two for weekends?

 

[aikman]

Does anyone know if the statement due date is the same every month regardless of month length? +/- a day or two for weekends?

I just checked mine and there has been a variance of +/- 2 days.

 

[SydneySwan]

My statement date only varies due to weekends.

 

[jasrulz63]

I just checked mine and there has been a variance of +/- 2 days.

My statement date only varies due to weekends.

Thanks! Trying to work out how much of a buffer to automate my PayAll and direct debit. I understand I'll lose some of the interest benefit of having the money in my account for less time, but for me, it's worth it for the reduced hassle.

 

[Legoman]

Does anyone know if the statement due date is the same every month regardless of month length? +/- a day or two for weekends?

It is not unfortunately. It varies within a window of 4 days. In 10 years of records with a statement issue date of 16th for that entire time, I have payment due dates ranging from 10 to 13. My nominal (most common) payment due date is 12, but it can be any of the others within 10-13 too. Makes it impossible to automate which is why I use Easipay direct debit

 

[jasrulz63]

It is not unfortunately. It varies within a window of 4 days. In 10 years of records with a statement issue date of 16th for that entire time, I have payment due dates ranging from 10 to 13. My nominal (most common) payment due date is 12, but it can be any of the others within 10-13 too. Makes it impossible to automate which is why I use Easipay direct debit

That's good info, thanks.

I have Easipay direct debit active for the closing balance as well. I was trying to work out a date (new to PayAll) that I could safely set the $20k PayAll after the direct debit went through, as I wouldn't have enough if the PayAll went through without the closing balance for the previous month being paid off first.

 

[ChrisMars]

Not sure what I am missing, but my only option is to payoff the debt a few days before the next payall kicks in (to make sure the next payall works) I don't seem to need to care about the statement cycle and closing balance due date.

Edit: grated I don't actually use the credit card for normal usage,just payall

 

[Legoman]

grated I don't actually use the credit card for normal usage,just payall

What you're missing is that if you had timed your PayAll payment to take place at least 3 days after the latest expected payment due date from your statement, then it would have been possible to have the whole process completely automated such that you would never have to make any manual payments to pay off the debt at all, because Easipay direct debit would do it for you.
eg. Hypothetically, let's say your statement date is 10th of each month. That would make your payment due date the 6th of each month. Easipay direct debits take 3 days to clear and become available credit, so that would mean restoration of your credit happens on 9th. PayAll scheduled payments are debited 3 days in advance of the scheduled date, which means you should schedule your PayAll on 12th. If you had done all that, then the following would happen:
6th - Easipay direct debit money in from external account
9th (am) - Easipay payment clears, available credit now = PayAll amount
9th (pm) - PayAll debit processed
10th - Funds received in external account from PayAll debit
10th - New statement received including PayAll debit just processed day before
12th - scheduled PayAll payment date already executed 3 days prior

None of that however allows for any delays caused by weekends, holidays, non-bank work days etc. so these are all very nominal numbers that would never actually occur in reality - you would need to spread things out more than this, but for illustrative purposes only, it is correct. You would never need to make any manual payments of your own if organised in such a way.

 

[ChrisMars]

What you're missing is that if you had timed your PayAll payment to take place at least 3 days after the latest expected payment due date from your statement, then it would have been possible to have the whole process completely automated such that you would never have to make any manual payments to pay off the debt at all, because Easipay direct debit would do it for you.
eg. Hypothetically, let's say your statement date is 10th of each month. That would make your payment due date the 6th of each month. Easipay direct debits take 3 days to clear and become available credit, so that would mean restoration of your credit happens on 9th. PayAll scheduled payments are debited 3 days in advance of the scheduled date, which means you should schedule your PayAll on 12th. If you had done all that, then the following would happen:
6th - Easipay direct debit money in from external account
9th (am) - Easipay payment clears, available credit now = PayAll amount
9th (pm) - PayAll debit processed
10th - Funds received in external account from PayAll debit
10th - New statement received including PayAll debit just processed day before
12th - scheduled PayAll payment date already executed 3 days prior

None of that however allows for any delays caused by weekends, holidays, non-bank work days etc. so these are all very nominal numbers that would never actually occur in reality - you would need to spread things out more than this, but for illustrative purposes only, it is correct. You would never need to make any manual payments of your own if organised in such a way.

Ah right I see, thanks for the detailed explanation. I guess too late now for me (I am on the old 35k payall limit)

 

[Legoman]

Yep too late. You can't change now if on old rules. I worked it out correctly for myself for my first PayAll of each month to be funded by the previous statement's Easipay direct debit, but I still have to make a manual payment to fund the second. That's as automated as I could get it on the rules and restrictions Citibank imposed at that time of setup.

For me, my Easipay occurs nominally on 12th, clears on 15th and then the first PayAll for the month is taken on nominally 18th. The 3 day gap is for the months when the numbers are messed about for weekends, 30day months, holidays etc. Sometimes the 12 becomes 13, then the 15 becomes 16 and sometimes the 18 becomes 17 or 16 too. In the very worst case such as happened this month, the Easipay doesn't clear until the morning of 16 and the first PayAll is debited on the afternoon or evening of the same day 16, but that's still OK because the payment clearing happens in the AM and the PayAll debit happens in the PM, so the first still funds the second automatically.

 

[the8guy]

first time poster here. How should i schedule my Payall to fully maximise the 20k in my offset and trasferring back to the credit card before due date of each statement without incurring any interest ? any experience would be appreciated TIA

 

[aikman]

first time poster here. How should i schedule my Payall to fully maximise the 20k in my offset and trasferring back to the credit card before due date of each statement without incurring any interest ? any experience would be appreciated TIA

It depends on your credit limit and as mentioned above if you want to automate the process using Easipay.

If your credit limit is only around $20k then you will have to transfer funds into your credit card at least 2 business days before your Payall date/s. You will almost certainly need to do this before your statement due date so just pick any date/s for your Payall/s.

If your credit limit is $40k+ then you can wait until your statement due date to transfer into your credit card because you don't have to worry if your next Payall will get processed.

I personally don't like BPay and Easipay because of the transfer delay and the uncertainties of when your payment will be made. I use Osko to instantly transfer funds to my Citibank Plus and then to my credit card. It only takes 1 minute in real time and can be done on the day the Payall will be processed which maximises the offset.

 

[Legoman]

I use Osko to instantly transfer funds to my Citibank Plus and then to my credit card. It only takes 1 minute in real time and can be done on the day the Payall will be processed which maximises the offset.

Osko is great when the banks allow it to work, but sadly this whole NPP/Osko/Fast Payments thing has been (deliberately) implemented in such a disastrously piecemeal and unpredictable way that you can never be sure whether it will happen or not. All the stars have to be aligned in just the right way for Osko to actually work, that it borders on the impossible to predict.

1. Both the sending and receiving accounts have to be configured to accept the system, and there's seemingly no-way of knowing whether this will be the case beforehand without trying
2. Some banks bizarrely turn the system off on weekends and/or outside of banking hours thereby completely negating the whole point of the system in the first place. Osko will work fine in the middle of the weekday, but when you go to use it at night or on the weekend: rejected
3. Osko will be blocked by almost all banks if the sending bank hasn't seen you transferring to the receiving bank successfully before and then after being blocked once, all subsequent attempts will also be blocked until you call the bank up and ask what the hell's going on and confirm who you are through 1001 questions

In 99% of cases, I've found I cannot predictably rely on fast payments. One of Australian banks' aims is to slow down the movement of money as much as possible. They literally make money from delaying the movement of money, so things like Osko work directly against the bank's own financial profit incentives, so it's hardly surprising that they've made the implmentation of the NPP system as much of a dog's breakfast as they possibly could. What NPP needed was tough legislation to force its adoption across all ADI's at the same time, but of course this is Australia, so that was never gonna happen.

 

[ChrisMars]

Osko is great when the banks allow it to work, but sadly this whole NPP/Osko/Fast Payments thing has been (deliberately) implemented in such a disastrously piecemeal and unpredictable way that you can never be sure whether it will happen or not. All the stars have to be aligned in just the right way for Osko to actually work, that it borders on the impossible to predict.

1. Both the sending and receiving accounts have to be configured to accept the system, and there's seemingly no-way of knowing whether this will be the case beforehand without trying
2. Some banks bizarrely turn the system off on weekends and/or outside of banking hours thereby completely negating the whole point of the system in the first place. Osko will work fine in the middle of the weekday, but when you go to use it at night or on the weekend: rejected
3. Osko will be blocked by almost all banks if the sending bank hasn't seen you transferring to the receiving bank successfully before and then after being blocked once, all subsequent attempts will also be blocked until you call the bank up and ask what the hell's going on and confirm who you are through 1001 questions

In 99% of cases, I've found I cannot predictably rely on fast payments. One of Australian banks' aims is to slow down the movement of money as much as possible. They literally make money from delaying the movement of money, so things like Osko work directly against the bank's own financial profit incentives, so it's hardly surprising that they've made the implmentation of the NPP system as much of a dog's breakfast as they possibly could. What NPP needed was tough legislation to force its adoption across all ADI's at the same time, but of course this is Australia, so that was never gonna happen.

How do bank make money by delaying transfer?

 

[Legoman]

How do bank make money by delaying transfer?

You have to be joking right? Slowing down the movement of money is the banking system's bread and butter. Millions of accounts with trillions of $$$ in them, if you can make that money disappear to the owner overnight and not pay interest on it, that's a big cost saving while you use the money to lend it to another bank short term. Do that same thing millions of times every single day and it adds up.

An institution called Newcastle Permanent Building Society or NPBS is the classic one. They offer Osko and promote it as one of their payment methods you can employ by choosing it specifically (as opposed to other bank's implementation whereby they will try to send it that way and then default back to standard EFT when it fails). The thing with NPBS though is that they block every single Osko payment request with a standard 110 error which you have to call the bank and speak to a CSR to answer 1001 intrusive questions about whether you know what you're doing before they'll lift the 110 block. But you don't just need to do this once for each new payee. No no no, they block every single Osko payment whether it's one they've seen before or not, forcing you to call them every single time. I'm sorry, but having to call a bank and have a 15min long intrusive, interrogation every single time you wanna withdraw money does not constitute a 'fast payment' or in fact even online banking at all in my book. In fact, it's more like having to drive to your local branch and hand over a paper passbook in person kind of banking experience.