Email from QFF [FF Account suspended]

[MEL_Traveller]

With my UA miles I've redeemed awards for a number of friends and family zero issues it's just fine. No need to transfer anything just redeem the award (or sponsor an upgrade). It works really well.. and of course they often have promos to buy miles and the like.. but it's a different history and mindset over there.

And one day this is where it could come to bite you. UA prohibits the bartering of awards and redeeming for friends is a legitimate flag for their audit department. It would be a very generous friend redeeming flights for thir friends with absolutely no recompense... whether that's the friend picking up the hotel bill, or the retrun flight, or other expenses on the trip.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

AS
SQ
MH

There's a few to get you started...

Forget about transferring points to others. Just redeem for them.

But the discussion, and your point I quoted, is about transferring points to others.

 

[burmans]

So case in point.... I am going to NZ in a couple of weeks with a lifelong friend - been friends since we were 5yo. Longtime family friends... we grew up as brothers essentially - our parents are best friends. Anyway, we are on the same booking and I wanted

A LOT of other airlines in the world allow points/miles to be used on random/non-family members.

Most folks are still under the QF spell.

Does no one actually read the rules of what they sign up for these days. QFF is what it is, you sign up knowing the rules, if you don't like one product buy another.

 

[33kft]

Most folks are still under the QF spell.

What's funny about this statement is that while your response was not wrong, it was totally out of context.

Go back and read what you replied to again, don't just make another snippy anti QF post, go back and read it. You replied to a response to a question about why loyalty points are controlled at all and why the recipient is not allowed to do as they see fit with them.

As someone who is in the loyalty business you assumedly know why this is but what you have chosen to do is to find one of the many restrictions that is somewhat unique to QF (although based on the small number of airlines you listed in an area you are an expert in, I assume they are not quite the minority you make them out to be) and used it as an excuse to bash QF.

So while some of us might be under said supposed spell, some others will take any opportunity, even one where it involves taking a discussion off on a tangent, to bash QF and drone on about the loyalty superiority of Asian airlines.

Like SQ and MH have programs that really have any chance of truly rewarding anyone that doesn't consistently spend executive levels of money on flights for life. Some people just flat out disagree with you, like me. Loyalty is a subjective term and those airlines dont offer me personally a compelling product that is relevant to me despite your expert opinion. Enjoy.

 

[odysseus]

AS
SQ
MH

There's a few to get you started...

Forget about transferring points to others. Just redeem for them.

But it's not a case of all things being equal, is it?

You also have some significant cons with those programs, for example, that you must pre-register and are limited in who you can transfer to with SQ, and more importantly the much shorter expiry timeframe with them.

There's no perfect program - every one has some cons so QF is neither unique in that, and nor is it the most onerous.

 

[Max Samuels]

Wow people get so cranky! It’s an online forum people settle down! While people do seem ready to bash Qantas at any chance they get, they are a pretty average airline and many people are under the QF spell because we are Aussie and proud and stupid....... g’day! Ian Thorpe! Cate Blanchett! Kylie! Qantas!

I think that the comment “you know the rules when you sign up” is stupid though because by that logic nobody could ever talk about or question something that does exist..... nothing wrong with challenging the status quo. And from everything I read on this forum, I get the feeling that most people are QF members out of necessity only, and if another option appeared (say VA joining star alliance) people would be leaving the red rat in droves.......

Plus side for the die hard fans: plenty of award availability if everyone bails!

My point was that I find it annoying and almost discriminatory that QFs definition of “family” is so out of step with the world.... what happens if you don’t conform to their binary and cis gender heteronormative view of the world? Sounds like they are gonna start flying to Gilead soon.....

 

[justinbrett]

OP never updated us with the outcome and hasn’t posted on this forum since.

 

[33kft]

While people do seem ready to bash Qantas at any chance they get, they are a pretty average airline and many people are under the QF spell because we are Aussie and proud and stupid....... g’day! Ian Thorpe! Cate Blanchett! Kylie! Qantas!

How insightful. People living in Australia stick with an airline based in Australia that flies to both more domestic locations in Australia and operates more international flights out of Australia than any other single airline and your detailed analysis has found Cate Blanchett responsible for this.

 

[burmans]

Wow people get so cranky! It’s an online forum people settle down!

An ironic comment from someone who started the recent commentary by throwing a tantrum about not getting a benefit they knew they weren't entitled to. People on here are largely well informed about their FF rights and not sure why you'd expect people not to make sort of comments they have here.

Sure, it's a public forum - you can say what you want. So can those responding and some people here are a bit over those who whinge a lot rather than actually do anything about it.

 

[justinbrett]

Wow people get so cranky! It’s an online forum people settle down! While people do seem ready to bash Qantas at any chance they get, they are a pretty average airline and many people are under the QF spell because we are Aussie and proud and stupid....... g’day! Ian Thorpe! Cate Blanchett! Kylie! Qantas!

Aussies bit*h about Qantas. Brits bit*h about BA. Americans bit*h about AA. I'm sure this is true of other countries (unless they are also blind nationalists like you've suggested we are). Once people adored EK and now it is almost universally shunned. Airline travel is not fashion, but some people like to think it is. It's not cool to love Qantas if you're Australian. Not that I endorse Skytrax at all, but they rated them #8 in the world. Objectively they are a pretty decent airline. Every airline has its pros and cons.

 

[Spongbob]

OP never updated us with the outcome and hasn’t posted on this forum since.

Very good point to make!
This is one reason I avoid making instant comments on AFF.

 

[Max Samuels]

An ironic comment from someone who started the recent commentary by throwing a tantrum about not getting a benefit they knew they weren't entitled to. People on here are largely well informed about their FF rights and not sure why you'd expect people not to make sort of comments they have here.

Sure, it's a public forum - you can say what you want. So can those responding and some people here are a bit over those who whinge a lot rather than actually do anything about it.

Lol. Hardly a tantrum. I just said I think the rules are unfair - that constitutes a tantrum?
I think many rules are unfair and talk about them - are they also tantrums?

Nobody is disputing that Qantas' rules exist - people are just pointing out that they seem out of touch and out of date and arbitrary. That's all.

And it seems that some people take personal offence to anything that smears the reputation of our beloved national carrier... which I find hilarious

 

[33kft]

And it seems that some people take personal offence to anything that smears the reputation of our beloved national carrier... which I find hilarious

That's not what really happened though is it? What really happened was that you said you should be able to do as you like with your points and that the nanny state of Australia and the nanny state of Australia's carrier were stopping you from doing that.

Yet literally every airline in every country globally has some amount of control over what is allowable with rewards points and they aren't going to let you sell them. Whether that's to stop you from undercutting their own sale of loyalty points to advertising partners, to combat fraud or to avoid being treated as some sort of currency, it's universal.

It just makes the entire premise wrong. Wanting to upgrade your friend was on topic and a fair point that I would personally agree with, airline enforcement of loyalty points and your assertion that this is unique to QF and should be abolished entirely (effectively opening up the loyalty program to all sorts of shenanigans such as sale of cut price award tickets to unsuspecting travellers) is where it all started going downhill.

 

[Max Samuels]

That's not what really happened though is it? What really happened was that you said you should be able to do as you like with your points and that the nanny state of Australia and the nanny state of Australia's carrier were stopping you from doing that....

You made me go back and look at my comment and I think you misquoted me!!

I said: "... It is pretty clear that they are trying to prohibit is the selling of points (which is a different discussion - why can't I sell points? They do.) "

- Here I am just saying that we could have a separate chat about selling points and whether it would be a good thing or not... this is not my main argument

Then I said: "...If it was just a case of gifting points - who cares who gets them? Seriously? Step mum , step dad, sister in law.... just arbitrary in my opinion. I transfer my points to my cousin, he transfer them to his cousin..... ultimately my points end up in the account of someone not related.... but we didn't break the rules.

But I suppose it really isn't surprising.... the flag carrier of the nanny state has nanny state policies.... hand fits the glove."

- Here the sentiment I am trying to get across is that Qantas' rules seem a bit onerous, perhaps the most onerous, and make a throw away comment that its a bit nanny-state like.... the assumption being that the reader will understand that Australia is viewed by many (incl people who live here) as a nanny state with all sorts of stupid rules and regulations... tongue-in-cheek for sure, but there is a point.

But for the sake of absolute clarity I will summarise my stance on the issue:

1) I understand that the airline prohibits the sale of points as it undercuts their revenue. I am not saying that I should be able to sell my points. But I do think that there is room for a debate on the issue, because the day Qantas changed them from a "loyalty reward" to a "commodity for sale", it enters a grey area.

2) I do have the opinion that I should be able to gift my points to whomever I like (not sell). I would even be happy if there were some limitations in place, for example, if non-family members were restricted to being on the same booking as me i.e. I can use my points to travel with my friend/boyfriend/girlfriend/colleague etc. I just think the current list of "eligible family members" seems a bit restrictive. Last year I was travelling back from a work thing with my boss (we are not related), yet we were on the same PNR. He was feeling generous and went to request an upgrade BNE-MEL at the Qantas Club. We were declined because we were not related... was kind of silly, in my opinion.

 

[RichardMEL]

And one day this is where it could come to bite you. UA prohibits the bartering of awards and redeeming for friends is a legitimate flag for their audit department. It would be a very generous friend redeeming flights for thir friends with absolutely no recompense... whether that's the friend picking up the hotel bill, or the retrun flight, or other expenses on the trip.

So wait, if someone goes away with a friend, agrees to sort the flights out, if the other person say sorts out the rental car and hotels how is that any kind of an audit issue for, in this case, UA?

I am guessing that UA views it more that they don't really care who the tickets go to as long as the miles are spent. No doubt people may sell those (and probably a lot do) but it's probsably no skin off their nose if the liability is reduced. I think they accept it happens and f they catch people doing it obviously, such as QF clearly has re this thread, that's another matter... but if I come to an arrangement with a mate hey I'll redeem you a flight to xyz and get something bakc - cash or something else - well it's pretty hard to track isn't it?

But to your first line.. there absolkutely are people who do it for absolutely nothing. Case in point ME! I agreed to do a tour in Europe some years back with a friend and we split the tour costs 50/50 (ie paid our share) and then there was the matter of getting to PRG to start the tour. Post the tour we were both going separate ways so I suggested I'd use the miles to get us to PRG. Friend offered to pay for a Y ticket but I was going to go in J/F (because well.. entitled! ) I felt there was no way I was going to let my friend be on the same flights as me but in a different class, and I am UA miles rich, so I grabbed TG F/LH J and said that's final. I treated my friend and felt like not a jerk but asked absolutely zero in return (actually I may have asked for the cost of the taxes which would have applied to a normal ticket anyway and it was only about $100).

True I am likely in the minority but I made a choice based on what I thought was right and did not ask nor expect for any copensation. We had a great trip

And the point being given UA allowed me to do this without any silly "family member" nonsense (which obviously people get around anyway - and only get caught by QFF when they go extreme on it) I think the system worked better for me.

And anyway let's say I'm a QFF member redeeming an award for my uncle under their rules.. how would QF know if Uncle didn't pay me for it? I mean it's really the same issue - QF just tries to tighten it up more to try and ward off the reselling aspect, but as we know it happens with QFF points (and probably some reward tickets too).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I believe this was exactly the case on AA where some guy booked a flight for his friend to go fishing. The guy paid for the flights, the friend paid the hotel etc. Outcome... barter of miles.

Sure, there will be exceptions.... for example a wedding gift or something like that. And in your example. But the onus is on the passenger to prove it. And you account is closed and inactive in the meantime. And you can’t even get in contact with the audit team until they’re ready to contact you.

For family I guess there is perhaps less of a presumption that money will be involved. Parents gifting their kids a graduation flight, or children buying their parents flights, etc.

One of the flags for audit is different surnames for the redemption of awards. And it all works smoothly, until you get audited

 

[RichardMEL]

I guess also in my case the award tix was for both of us - so I was flying with my friend - less of a barter situation there - or at least iit's probably very unlikely I sold a TG F ticket online to a stranger if I was flying with them.

With the AA "gone fishing" example I guess my query is - if there's a concern about this sort of thing, then why allow it? Or at least do a QFF type thing?

Now, if I redeemed a BUNCH of tickets for people with different names in a fairly short period of time I can understand if a flag goes up.

There's also the related case of UA sacking a bunch of FA's recently (I think earlier this year) as they sold their buddy pass privs online. United Airlines Said It Just Fired 35 Employees For Doing Something Really Greedy (and Not Very Smart)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess also in my case the award tix was for both of us - so I was flying with my friend - less of a barter situation there - or at least iit's probably very unlikely I sold a TG F ticket online to a stranger if I was flying with them.

I'm not sure travelling with the person makes any difference. 'Fishing guy' was travelling with his friend. Apparently AA is the strictest of the US carriers when it comes to this, but UA isn't far behind by the looks of it. There are pages and pages on accounts being closed on FlyerTalk for both AA and UA.

It's just something to keep in mind.