Email from QFF [FF Account suspended]

[justinbrett]

Qantas could easily fix this problem by capping outgoing points transfers to the value earnt by the member. Exclude points that have already been transferred. Gets rid of the middle man.

 

[Matt_01]

Qantas could easily fix this problem by capping outgoing points transfers to the value earnt by the member. Exclude points that have already been transferred. Gets rid of the middle man.

But what is the definition of earnt. I was informed by another AFF member that I am old school as I earn most of my points by flying. Those who churn CC, buy GV etc, most likely earn more than myself on an annual basis.

QF rules only allow a 600K transfer cap on a rolling annual basis.

 

[mrsterryn]

QF rules only allow a 600K transfer cap on a rolling annual basis.

Just to clarify a member can only transfer a maximum of 600k a year of points in total ?
Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Family Transfers - Terms and Conditions

This does not identify if per family member or in total ?
Oopps husband has hit his limit to me ,at the very least, for a few more months

 

[cove]

Qantas also have a vendor limit of 250,000 points. I don’t know how many loyalty points issuers there are but that is a limit.

 

[Happy Trails]

I expect the points brokers would have multiple accounts.

 

[cove]

Yes vendors can do per person to a 250,000 limit. I believe that limit was set by the fiscal fiends at the ATO.

 

[Matt_01]

Just to clarify a member can only transfer a maximum of 600k a year of points in total ?
Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Family Transfers - Terms and Conditions

This does not identify if per family member or in total ?
Oopps husband has hit his limit to me ,at the very least, for a few more months

@mrsterryn I think this is part of the reason that this thread has gone a bit off topic from the original OP. The total transfer rate was once much lower around 200k from memory. It is now 600k to “eligibale family members” and “eligibale family members” are in the definitions (as I remember). Whilst there are many barrack room lawyers on this site the most rules of law are based on intent, but I am not a lawyer.

Now chime in all the legal practitioners who will gladly give their pro-bono opinions and argue the case for and against points transfer. .

 

[Max Samuels]

How do you prove someone is "eligible family member" anyway?
Cousins? What kind of docs to explain that? You need a whole family tree! And domestic partner??? How on earth do you do that? If I book a flight and my domestic partner is in the same booking, surely that is enough evidence?

 

[33kft]

Those who are getting the email in the first place, in a large proportion of the cases, are getting it because they or someone they have transacted with have displayed behaviour that make it clear they are not engaging in legitimate family transfers (perhaps by having a seemingly large family comprising tens of transfer partners who are also transacting with many other members, transacting frequently to a large number of accounts and ultimately perhaps admitting to it), at which point I'm not sure the definition of the term matters so much anymore.

If everyone acted carefully, rationally and transacted sparingly, you'd never need to explain yourself. But you'd be relying on complete strangers (if you did buy/sell points) to also act rationally and this is the point at which it all starts to fall apart.

 

[burmans]

Personally I think Qantas has been extremely generous and the problem here is that people have expoited. While it would take some efort for me to prove someone is my first cousin I think it would be timeconsuming and perhaps costly rather than "difficult". Would you rather they removed the ability given its is "too hard" to police (the thought "be careful what you wish for" springs readily to mind).

Domestic party is somewhat easy, most of us still get plenty of communication by letter from time to time, you need to show you and your domestic partner share an address.

 

[Max Samuels]

Those who are getting the email in the first place, in a large proportion of the cases, are getting it because they or someone they have transacted with have displayed behaviour that make it clear they are not engaging in legitimate family transfers (perhaps by having a seemingly large family comprising tens of transfer partners who are also transacting with many other members, transacting frequently to a large number of accounts and ultimately perhaps admitting to it), at which point I'm not sure the definition of the term matters so much anymore.

If everyone acted carefully, rationally and transacted sparingly, you'd never need to explain yourself. But you'd be relying on complete strangers (if you did buy/sell points) to also act rationally and this is the point at which it all starts to fall apart.

So case in point.... I am going to NZ in a couple of weeks with a lifelong friend - been friends since we were 5yo. Longtime family friends... we grew up as brothers essentially - our parents are best friends. Anyway, we are on the same booking and I wanted to upgrade us with points but when it asked the family relationship I hesitated..... technically he is no relation to me at all, but just as close (in my opinion) as a random step brother or sister. I dont know if I should just say "cousin" or not do it for fear of QF sending me hate mail too...

:-(

 

[burmans]

Those who are getting the email in the first place, in a large proportion of the cases, are getting it because they or someone they have transacted with have displayed behaviour that make it clear they are not engaging in legitimate family transfers (perhaps by having a seemingly large family comprising tens of transfer partners who are also transacting with many other members, transacting frequently to a large number of accounts and ultimately perhaps admitting to it), at which point I'm not sure the definition of the term matters so much anymore.

If everyone acted carefully, rationally and transacted sparingly, you'd never need to explain yourself. But you'd be relying on complete strangers (if you did buy/sell points) to also act rationally and this is the point at which it all starts to fall apart.

Agree, Qanatas could not afford to follow up everyone, they have clearly identified "unusual" patterns of behaviour and its those who get the "please explain"

 

[Max Samuels]

I think they (QF) are just cheap.
It is pretty clear that they are trying to prohibit is the selling of points (which is a different discussion - why can't I sell points? They do.) If it was just a case of gifting points - who cares who gets them? Seriously? Step mum , step dad, sister in law.... just arbitrary in my opinion. I transfer my points to my cousin, he transfer them to his cousin..... ultimately my points end up in the account of someone not related.... but we didn't break the rules.

But I suppose it really isn't surprising.... the flag carrier of the nanny state has nanny state policies.... hand fits the glove.

 

[33kft]

But I suppose it really isn't surprising.... the flag carrier of the nanny state has nanny state policies.... hand fits the glove.

I'd love to know who these other airlines who do allow selling of their loyalty points are

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I'd love to know who these other airlines who do allow selling of their loyalty points are

A LOT of other airlines in the world allow points/miles to be used on random/non-family members.

Most folks are still under the QF spell.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

A LOT of other airlines in the world allow points/miles to be used on random/non-family members.

Most folks are still under the QF spell.

But there can be fees and restrictions involved. And the fees can apply to family members too so it's not just as simple as saying "QF is bad."

Outside of promotions AA charges USD 12.50 per 1,000 miles along with a USD 15 transaction fee.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

But there can be fees and restrictions involved. And the fees can apply to family members too so it's not just as simple as saying "QF is bad."

Outside of promotions AA charges USD 12.50 per 1,000 miles along with a USD 15 transaction fee.

AS
SQ
MH

There's a few to get you started...

Forget about transferring points to others. Just redeem for them.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think they (QF) are just cheap.

But QF makes no secret of this and we all know this when earning points.

I can't remember but wasn't this restriction also something, at least originally, about trying to avoid fringe benefits tax? (hence family members only)

 

[RichardMEL]

Absolutely agree the whole "family member" thing is a bit silly these days - because it's not really stopping any fraud I don't think and just annoying people tbh.

With my UA miles I've redeemed awards for a number of friends and family zero issues it's just fine. No need to transfer anything just redeem the award (or sponsor an upgrade). It works really well.. and of course they often have promos to buy miles and the like.. but it's a different history and mindset over there.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

<snip>

It works really well.. and of course they often have promos to buy miles and the like.. but it's a different history and mindset over there.

Sure is!

UA loyalty significantly more profitable than QF
And UA loyalty... is run by an Australian!