Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[juddles]

If in the due course of time this turns out to be a Lion Air equivalent, it is my opinion that a great deal of blame lies with Boeing. To implement software that will crash perfectly flyable aircraft (unless that software is overridden correctly by skilled pilots), and NOT even tell pilots about it until it became an issue, just seems to me to be "bad practice".

And if this problem is kicking in at only 7000 feet, I suspect even well trained pilots may have a struggle saving the plane.

(obviously all my comments are as an armchair warrior in this area, as I am not a pilot)

I am usually all for waiting for a full and comprehensive investigation, but this 737 MAX issue may be so urgent that groundings are warranted.

 

[Saab34]

A lot of news reports are getting mixed up with the height. FR24 uses AMSL.

The elevation here is 8000ft and above, it appears they, going of limited data, they never went higher than 500-1000ft.

They didn’t get as high as Lion.

 

[juddles]

A lot of news reports are getting mixed up with the height. FR24 uses AMSL.

The elevation here is 8000ft and above, it appears they, going of limited data, they never went higher than 500-1000ft.

They didn’t get as high as Lion.

That is very interesting and makes the data list clear - it does however show that the graph posted does a lot of "extrapolation" which gives a completely misleading altitude curve.

 

[openseat]

I just found this WSJ article( Boeing and Regulators Delay Jetliner Fixes Prompted by Lion Air Crash ) from 10 Feb where it says "Boeing is developing revised software for an automated flight-control feature that can forcefully push down the nose of the MAX aircraft... But the work has dragged on months longer..." .It goes into say that it will be March/April before the update would be rolled out.

 

[Saab34]

That is very interesting and makes the data list clear - it does however show that the graph posted does a lot of "extrapolation" which gives a completely misleading altitude curve.

Yes
Sadly one needs to pay the premium service to get the converted data.

Unlike Lion who had a few thousand feet to play with these guys appeared to have the impending issue of terrain, and having a quick look the area has variations 8000-9000ft.

 

[Quickstatus]

Noted that ADD elevation is 2350m

Or 7630 ft

There are about 350 737Max8 in service (less 2)

 

[pauly7]

I have two 737 flights tomorrow, one QF and one VA (obviously not on the affected aircraft type).

If I was on a MAX tomorrow I honestly think I’d be calling up and moving aircraft. Something just doesn’t sit right.

I get the whole ‘wait for the report’ crowd response I’ll get from posting this, but honestly I personally would not be gettin on board one until we know more information.

 

[Saab34]

Watching a lot of ‘Aviation Experts’ getting mixed up with the elevations across news channels. One just claimed it got to 8000ft and must have had a explosion for it to disappear off radar at such height!

Digging deeper they appear to have barely got higher than 500ft.

Speed does not appear to be an issue but like Lion, the issue seems to be again, the failure of converting the speed to attitude.

 

[calmelb]

I take back my previous comment, given the actual speed isn't more than 1000ft above the ground then not surprising it didnt show anything on FR24. Still a steep fall though

 

[jakeseven7]

Given both the Lion Air loss of life and today's were a long way (geographically) from the USA, does it tend to be the US civil aviation regulator, local authorities or (not without a lot of thought) the manufacturer Boeing that takes the lead in any formal response?

Authorities may (initially) have a 'no blame' policy as they investigate, but do AFF members with knowledge "blame" the aircraft manufacturer for faults, defective training of the air crew, incorrect procedures by the latter or something else?

Or should we all take a deep breath and wait months until any formal investigations are complete?

Is it appropriate (at huge cost to the manufacturer and airlines) for this model to be immediately grounded worldwide or is that (no pun intended) massive overkill?

pauly7 mentioned VA. Given most airline passengers don't check what type of plane they fly on, if this type becomes part of the VA fleet will patrons switch to other airlines or avoid the MAX if it's operating?

Virgin are planning to take delivery of the MAX in Q3, just a few months away.

Second crash of brand new aircraft does not bode well.

 

[jase05]

I have two 737 flights tomorrow, one QF and one VA (obviously not on the affected aircraft type).

If I was on a MAX tomorrow I honestly think I’d be calling up and moving aircraft. Something just doesn’t sit right.

I get the whole ‘wait for the report’ crowd response I’ll get from posting this, but honestly I personally would not be gettin on board one until we know more information.

Mrs Jase has a girls trip to Fiji planned for 3 weeks time on FJ’s 737 Max 8 from ADL. To say I’m a tad concerned is an understatement

 

[jakeseven7]

Mrs Jase has a girls trip to Fiji planned for 3 weeks time on FJ’s 737 Max 8 from ADL. To say I’m a tad concerned is an understatement

I was just about to post that a QF investment airline / Fiji Airways is operating the aircraft type. Not technically a part of the QF group.

I’m not sure I’d get on one tomorrow either.

 

[calmelb]

Crash: Ethiopian B38M near Bishoftu on Mar 10th 2019, impacted terrain after departure AVHerald shows that the weather was nice and calm, and that they got to 9027ft MSL (Above Sea Level)

 

[Melburnian1]

Mrs Jase has a girls trip to Fiji planned for 3 weeks time on FJ’s 737 Max 8 from ADL. To say I’m a tad concerned is an understatement

And yet if we do the maths: 350 aircraft x cycles operated we'd come up with a number in the tens of thousands, by now.

Natural though to be concerned: I'm merely pointing to the statistics.

 

[RSD]

It looks like it has gone into the ground very very hard from an impact scene photo on the news. Have flown Ethiopian Airlines before and was pleasantly surprised at how good they were - much better than Kenyan "duct tape" Airways.

 

[jakeseven7]

And yet if we do the maths: 350 aircraft x cycles operated we'd come up with a number in the tens of thousands, by now.

Natural though to be concerned: I'm merely pointing to the statistics.

Would you happily jump on one tonight without a second glance?

I work in stats for a living lol and this has me wondering what’s going on with this new plane...

 

[RSD]

Would you happily jump on one tonight without a second glance?

I work in stats for a living lol and this has me wondering what’s going on with this new plane...

There was a saying around the time of Air France 447 of "If it ain't Boeing I ain't going" - I'm not sure what the new saying is going to be though!

 

[jakeseven7]

There was a saying around the time of Air France 447 of "If it ain't Boeing I ain't going" - I'm not sure what the new saying is going to be though!

A blanket manufacturer statement v concern about a particular model variation is a bit different. I’ll have no issue getting on my usual commuter Virgin sardine can 737 to BNE on Tuesday, but if they had the MAX flying on Tuesday I don’t reckon I’d get on it at the moment either. Bet there are some worried peeps at VA right now.

 

[RSD]

Something for everyone to watch out for - was just in the process of making a booking for next month and saw that the AA metal with QF flight number from Dulles to L.A. was a 737 MAX !!

 

[ermen]

heard Ethiopian are an OK airline with new planes

they have a bunch of 787 planes too