FA Unilaterally Downgrading PAX from J to Y on Trans Tasman (Jetconnect)

[Dave Noble]

Frankly, what' a $150 voucher? Big whoopy doo!

I'd happily refuse to accept it on a matter of principle, even if there is chance of further compensation being denied - at the end of the day $150 isn't that significant, and I would consider it a risk worth taking.

It isn't much , but the onus of proof is on the customer to prove that they didn't get what they were entitled to. regardless of it happening, it would seem that there is no proof of it happening and so getting more compensation seems a long shot and refusing what has been offered could just leave the customer with ZERO

$150 may not be a lot , but is a lot more than Zero

Dave

 

[Travel Guru]

Given the media's love of a good QF bashing story of late, why don't you see if TT or ACA want to get involved, i'm sure you'll quickly end up with more than A$150 compensation.

TG

 

[djfuzz]

Frankly, what' a $150 voucher? Big whoopy doo!

I'd happily refuse to accept it on a matter of principle, even if there is chance of further compensation being denied - at the end of the day $150 isn't that significant, and I would consider it a risk worth taking. A longshot, and I don't know how good pax records are, but there may be someone sitting next to chrizzz15 who could be contacted to verify if they were sitting next to him or not - I'd certainly raise that with QF in any event if they still refuse to believe him. Also would they have a record of who was sitting in 2A and could they chcck if that person's wife was also on board?

The problem appears to be that chrizzz15 was moved just after he boarded - so I'm guessing the passengers in 2D and F may not have had the opportunity to make his acquaintance, right?

Whether they bother to go as far as checking the pax in 2A, and whether or not their partner was on board, is another matter - may be difficult to verify if they don't have the same name.

It does appear that the best opportunity to object was at the time, and that that is also when it would have be most worthwhile to gather some information to support a claim - although I still reckon he should be pursuing it, as Dave said it is far harder with nothing but your word when there is circumstantial evidence (eg boarding pass) to the contrary.

 

[ejb]

$150 for this downgrade is a low figure but has anyone checked/does anyone know what the requirement is in the T&C's.

My understanding is that they can change your seating for any reason at any time EVEN after you have boarded, if this is correct then the FA was within their power to move the OP.

If this is true however surely within the T&C's there would be an allowance for the class change.

I have been seated before on a PER-SYD flight in J when the pax next to me had their points upgrade removed and was shown to his new seat in row 60 something on a 743. He was not happy:!:

ejb

 

[equus]

so I'm guessing the passengers in 2D and F may not have had the opportunity to make his acquaintance, right?

I wouldn't see that as the problem - the boarding pass documentary evidence shows where he should have been. The whY class adjoining seats had plenty of time to make his acquaintance, and that is much more relevant to proving where he actually sat.

QF would have the details of who should have been where, and if mindful, could contact to investigate - but won't want to. Depending on how far the OP pushes, they may well compensate much better rather than face the possibility of having to produce the passenger manifest to a court so that the OP could supoena relevant passengers to give evidence.....

 

[Moody]

On the basis that the FA mis-represented the seat change, I think you have made the right move to refuse their hush money and take this to the next level. You are actually doing Qantas a favour because this FA has severely tarnished their good reputation, and without redress the financial implications will far outweigh the compensation offered.

I would be surprised if they are not already aware of this thread, but in any further electronic communication with Qantas I would include it in a link. That will give them more than enough information with which they can do a proper investigation and convince themselves that you are telling the truth.

Good luck.

 

[dajop]

$150 may not be a lot , but is a lot more than Zero

But it's not cash. It's really up to Chrizzz15 to decide if it is material or not. For me, I'd be more concerned about the principle than the cash an apology with acceptance of responsiblity would be just as important as any compensation. $150 in QF vouchers would not be enough to persuade me to let it pass through to the keeper.

 

[Dave Noble]

QF would have the details of who should have been where, and if mindful, could contact to investigate - but won't want to. Depending on how far the OP pushes, they may well compensate much better rather than face the possibility of having to produce the passenger manifest to a court so that the OP could supoena relevant passengers to give evidence.....

With a claim against the airline the passenger would have to provide proof that he had a valid claim; the airline doesn't have to do anything . I don't believe that the passenger can get a requirement from the defendant to provide the evidence

Even if the claimant was successful , I would not expect that the person would get any more than the difference between the business and economy fare which would be possibly as low as $151 ( if comparing D vs Y )

Dave

 

[Dave Noble]

But it's not cash. It's really up to Chrizzz15 to decide if it is material or not. For me, I'd be more concerned about the principle than the cash an apology with acceptance of responsiblity would be just as important as any compensation. $150 in QF vouchers would not be enough to persuade me to let it pass through to the keeper.

Principle plus an empty sack = an empty sack

Dave

 

[serfty]

A Statuary Declaration is considered proper evidence in a court of law.

Of course if both parties provide such then it's up to the court to resolve - or not.

The bigger issue is that Qantas would not want this to go much further; Moody's recent post in this thread is pertinent.

The $150 offer is indicative of this.

 

[MelUser]

I have been seated before on a PER-SYD flight in J when the pax next to me had their points upgrade removed and was shown to his new seat in row 60 something on a 743. He was not happy:!:

ejb

This scares me - I thought that upgraded PAX were treated the same as other pax.

Are you able to explain this more?

 

[Dave Noble]

A Statuary Declaration is considered proper evidence in a court of law.

Of course if both parties provide such then it's up to the court to resolve.

It may be proper evidence but is irrelevent when it is the plaintif since the plaintif would be in court anyway. What will matter is whether the plaintif can show on a preponderance of the evidence that the events as claimed occurred.

I would not believe that the OP would be able to based on what has been stated

Also the plaintif would have to make a claim on how much is owed ; if QF doesn't agreee they could possibly say that they would only owe the difference between the D one way fare in class paid and the Y economy one way fare which would be no different to how much they have already offered

Qantas does not have to prove anything, the fulll burden of proof is on the OP

The issue isn't whether the event happened but whether the OP can prove the event happened

Dave

 

[serfty]

For Qantas (irrespective of any situation which may or may not reach a court/tribunal etc. to be resolved or not) is the issue of service recovery.

I'll re-iterate:

... The bigger issue is that Qantas would not want this to go much further; Moody's recent post in this thread is pertinent.

The $150 offer is indicative of this.

 

[Dave Noble]

For Qantas (irrespective of any situation which may or may not reach a court/tribunal etc. to be resolved or not) is the issue of service recovery.

It would seem that in the way of offering an olive branch QF has already offered something; going to court would likely (imvho given lack of evidence) not be something to threaten

Personally, I only threaten legal action when I know that I have my ducks lined in a row

Dave

 

[drron]

The big problem with legal action is the cost-it aint going to be cheap-though possibly an action in the small claims tribunal for the difference between full y and full J might be a cheap alternative.
If you have a lawyer friend maybe they would be willing to write to QF asking for a copy of the passenger manifest,your booking details etc might get QF thinking there was more to the story.Possibly even ask them to provide a stat dec from the FA-warning of course of the penalties for a false declaration.
These basically are diversionary and bluff tactics but would be likely to be a significant cost for QF and could result in a more satisfactory offer.If it fails then TT or ACA.

 

[harvyk]

Possibly even ask them to provide a stat dec from the FA-warning of course of the penalties for a false declaration.

This is a good idea, problem is they would turn around and say "no" and you'd have little comeback.

Chances are that if they have already dangled the $150 carrot in front of you they know that they could be in the wrong (or that the FA did something wrong).

Small claims court is the avenue I'd go downand use their own T&C's against them... It's relatively inexpesive...

 

[dajop]

.If it fails then TT or ACA.

Are TT or ACA really going to be interested in this? The majority of the ACA/TT audience would not give a sh## about someone being downgraded from J to Y.

 

[dajop]

I wouldn't see that as the problem - the boarding pass documentary evidence shows where he should have been. The whY class adjoining seats had plenty of time to make his acquaintance, and that is much more relevant to proving where he actually sat.

Exactly.

On reflection - if it was a direct swap, and the OP knows exactly where he sat on the flight, the passenger manifest would have a record of who was supposed to sit there, and a record of who the OP was originally supposed to sit next to, and if it could be established that these two are husband and wife then that would add credibility to the OP's story. (then of course QF and the FA will say it was all a big conspiracy cooked up between the husband and wife and the OP!!!)

 

[Dave Noble]

Small claims court is the avenue I'd go downand use their own T&C's against them... It's relatively inexpesive...

A Small claim is pretty inexpensive but will only be worthwhile if can prove to the judge that the alleged event took place and then can subsequently show that an amount other than that between class purchased (D) and Y is justifiable under the CoC. If cannot prove that the company owes money to the claimant then the claim will fail

The T&Cs will mean nothing if there is no proof

Before making a claim, I would put self in the position of the defendant and see what you would say. I would expect their response to the claim would be that they have seen no evidence of the alleged event provided and that he was checked in in business class and the manifest showed him as being in business class

Dave

 

[stryker]

Methinks there is more to this story than has been revealed.