Failed Virgin Experiences...

[QF WP]

Okay, why don't we just move on...alas, I have yet to fly VA so have nothing to add to the thread.

I'm sure that there are improvement in practices that members feel VA need to hear - which will work given their representation here. If you're unhappy and don't say anything then nothing can change. If you are vocal, then there is the chance that it will (particularly when others have experienced the same thing).

Anybody else got some specific issues that they'd like to expose and have addressed?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Sorry Lindsay, it seems I haven't been clear with how my dismissed experience relates to this thread so I'll try to be more blunt.

I can recall previously (pre fare changes of a few months ago), having to buy a PE seat when Go!fares, Blue Saver and flexi had been sold out. On the flight I mentioned (Fri), it seemed clear that a non-PE pax had been upgraded to PE so other Saver or Flexi fares could be sold, resulting in a chockers plane. As said, I don't mind but had DJ kept the PE seats as PE seats, my wife (a paid PE pax) would have had a seat. So I guess it comes down to that problem about whether PE should be kept PE or allowed to be used as upgrades. I can see and understand both sides of the debate..............

 

[antycbr]

During the past fortnight I've flown CBR-SYD-PER-SYD-CBR-ADL-SYD-BNE-TSV-BNE-CBR all on DJ on a combination of Saver and Flexi fares, and an op-up Saver->J SYD-PER on the A330 so that definitely goes in to the Great Virgin Experiences thread... and a particularly great crew on SYD-BNE... however a few comments and thoughts, nothing really major or wrong but a few little wrinkles that could be ironed out.

- Flexi meals... While I appreciate an included F&B offering, there's no variety if most of your flights are in the evening, although I did notice that the slab of cheese became two smaller slabs of cheese recently, and the salsa seems to have changed flavour. But come on, some variety would be much appreciated particularly if you have connecting flights; and to recognise sector length. You get exactly the same on SYD-CBR as ADL-SYD or BNE-TSV at more than twice the length.

- Flexi beverages... not everyone wants to drink, include soft drink and juice in the choices! I appreciate that a lot of the crew would get me a juice, but I don't want them to have to be "doing me a favour" it should be part of the offering.

- Minor inconsistencies... with so many flights you can pretty much recite the crew crib sheet for PAs. So when someone deviates "there's a serious side to the flight" it really jars with you. Please also just have one person doing the announcements (Cabin Supervisor) don't let everyone have a go. And I find "final rubbish clear" very downmarket, but that's just me being pedantic. How about "Crew will be moving throughout the cabin to collect any rubbish"...

- TSV need to do priority boarding announcements - even though the lane infrastructure is not there, you can still do the announcements. This isn't a big issue but you get so used to it being done so well at the main capital city ports that when it's totally missed you definitely notice it. Also it'd be good for VA to finish the rollout of the VA branding and signage at other ports (ADL, CBR, TSV etc) around the checkin areas.

- Seating - probably the biggest gripe... and already well covered on the thread. See below for my thoughts:

- ADL-SYD was about 65% load, yet I had a full row of three. IMO if the flight isn't full then keep an empty seat next to golds. It's annoying when you're in one of the few full rows and it's not a couple that you've been seated next to. I suspect this occurred because I was in Row 3 (no complains about the legroom on a 737-700) but when someone arrives at the airport and is checked in by ground staff, they just plonk them in the first available seat on the flight. I also suspect this is a limitation of Navitaire - Qantas have the shadow concept in place next to status pax to prevent this happening. Perhaps lounge staff can block some seats?

- Annoying when you're a Gold in row 3-5 on a 737 and you see obvious non-status pax on Saver fares upgraded into Y+ with Saver service - recognise your Golds on Flexi fares if you're going to upgrade anyone... To add insult to injury you know it's happening because you are so close to those rows anyway and can see what's going on. I know there might be service recovery or some other reason to upgrade pax, but it happened too often on too many routes. I'd prefer no-one to be upgraded to protect the integrity of the Y+/soon to be business cabin, but if you are going to do upgrades, do it properly! A Gold on a Flexi is worth much more to the airline and would appreciate the upgrade to the Y+ cabin space (even with just Flexi F&B). For a lot of the sectors you know a pretty good approximation as to who is gold on your flight based on who leaves the lounge with you when the flight is called, and none of them got upgraded either.


As I said at the start, nothing really wrong - I got what I paid for, and the flights were on time (or early!) but all little things that add a bit of polish to the service.

 

[antycbr]

I would also love to see a new 'saver plus' economy fare which is a already complete package of food/drink and baggage to actively compete with Red-e-deal fares. The lowest fare, saver, would compete for the discount/family leisure market.

Saver - Lowest economy fare with complimentary water/coffee/tea and IFE.
Saver Plus - economy fare with food, beverage, IFE and luggage included
Flexi - flexible economy fare with food, beverage, IFE and luggage included
Premium - Business class fare with all the extras

I kind of know what you mean on this one, no arguments about including Water/Coffee/Tea into Saver fares either... it's particularly jarring as you have the "ensure you drink plenty of water" inflight health message burned into your face if you're watching the flight map.

However I really like the simplicity of the three fare types (part a legacy of CrazyDave who was implementing it, if I recall correctly) and I think that the premium charged between non-sale Saver and Flexi is not too bad. It has forced Qantas to reduce the premium they used to charge for K class and above Flexisavers, which is of benefit to both airline's customers. I also love it when a Flexi is cheaper than a Saver for certain flight sectors (particularly those involving connections).

 

[Noob]

I kind of know what you mean on this one, no arguments about including Water/Coffee/Tea into Saver fares either... it's particularly jarring as you have the "ensure you drink plenty of water" inflight health message burned into your face if you're watching the flight map.

However I really like the simplicity of the three fare types (part a legacy of CrazyDave who was implementing it, if I recall correctly) and I think that the premium charged between non-sale Saver and Flexi is not too bad. It has forced Qantas to reduce the premium they used to charge for K class and above Flexisavers, which is of benefit to both airline's customers. I also love it when a Flexi is cheaper than a Saver for certain flight sectors (particularly those involving connections).

I have to agree, I like the simplicity also - and have been toying with that idea since. On short flight sectors many people don't care about a full meal offering and would just like to have a snack and a drink - a lot of the time people just eat the food because it's free, not because they wanted it.

 

[Friends of None]

Good thread.

I am a Lounge member (paid) on both QF and DJ as I don't fly enough (beyond 10 or domestic MEL-OOL and int'l MEL into the EU during TDF time, and a random USA/CA trip, on AC or Hawaiian/JQ usually) to get gold/plat, but, FWIW, I sent a rather lengthy email to Virgin head of customer a while ago about perceived flaws.

- No newsletter from Virgin targeting segments of customer base according to some sort of intelligence (imagine if the AFR targeted an mailing list with anticipated, timely, relevant advertisements and discounts) with discounts, offers, etc
- No solicitation (with visible action) from readers like all of the people here (notwithstanding any lurking and resultant actions) for feedback
- No priority check-in for Lounge members (like QClub gets)
- No extra baggage for Lounge members (like QClub gets)
- Food is a shambles, some of the cold stuff is now pretty good in Melbourne domestic, the hot food is lacking, HOWEVER, I will qualify that by saying, by and large, standard Qantas Club lounge hot fare is decidedly average as well: bog standard curries (way too much garlic and artificial flavouring), limited fresh fruit, loads of stodgy fare (I'd be adding more fruit, nuts, Clif/Carmens bars, etc).
- The bar in Virgin is good for beer (Asahi, Fat Yak) in Syd and Mel
- No Virgin Lounge at OOL
- Can't recall if the AFR is provided in Virgin Lounges (it ought to be)
- The coffee experience (disclosure, I'm decidedly biased, considering I run wherespresso.com) is absolutely WOEFUL. Everytime I go there I want to ask if I can make my own. For marginal cost increase, the coffee could be made AMAZING. Having automatons (no disrespect to the workers there), pulling shots, does a huge disservice. Show your customers how much you love them by treating their coffee (and food, and all other aspects of food prep and presentation) with care (again, I'm biased: all about UX and Seth Godin-esque amazement of customers)
- Check in process is an absolute disgrace. In this day and age with low marginal cost for data acquisition and analytics, the airline ABSOLUTELY has no excuse for not knowing the expected influx of passengers per flight (+/- some tolerance) with a resulting appropriate number of check in staff. The number of times I've been faced with *huge* queues, with minimal staff actually performing high impact checkin, and say 5 staff wandering around the queues or hanging around the back (this is at MEL) is truly astonishing. It's a nightmare and something that seriously needs addressing.
- The recent switch from a $7 Can of spirits to a $7.50 (or whatever it is) spirit bottle + the need to spend another $3 on a mixer, is just plain sneaky. Grouse if you're a penny pinching cost cutter, cr#p if you're the head of Customer Happiness and it just p#sses your best customers off.

I could go on. Importantly, none of it isn't fixable.

 

[Friends of None]

- Annoying when you're a Gold in row 3-5 on a 737 and you see obvious non-status pax on Saver fares upgraded into Y+ with Saver service - recognise your Golds on Flexi fares if you're going to upgrade anyone... To add insult to injury you know it's happening because you are so close to those rows anyway and can see what's going on. I know there might be service recovery or some other reason to upgrade pax, but it happened too often on too many routes. I'd prefer no-one to be upgraded to protect the integrity of the Y+/soon to be business cabin, but if you are going to do upgrades, do it properly! A Gold on a Flexi is worth much more to the airline and would appreciate the upgrade to the Y+ cabin space (even with just Flexi F&B). For a lot of the sectors you know a pretty good approximation as to who is gold on your flight based on who leaves the lounge with you when the flight is called, and none of them got upgraded either.

If there's a major insight to be gleaned from this by any lurking Virgin staff, it's this. Evangelists need to be treated like gold. They're the ones that spout the good (and bad) experiences to people. You also made a great point about staff ought not make people feel like they're doing the pax a favour. You're there to serve the customer remember, we're there by choice. Some staff still act as if even lowly coach fares should feel grateful they even get any service.

I will currently usually recommend JQ over DJ to anyone who asks me.

DJ only gets my cash as they fly my surfboards (one is a longboard) whilst the JQ A330s from what I understand will not fit.

 

[Friends of None]

DJ's check in / seat selection / related systems are complete pants. I generally get reasonable seats .. but it's far less predictable than with QF. My main gripe is the lack of interconnectivity with outside systems - for example, DJ in MEL cannot issue my boarding pass for a VA flight departing from SYD. And when departing from an EY station, I'm able to get my VA boarding pass but not my DJ boarding pass.

I'm also just a little bit over having to do manual points claims for flights.

This sort of stuff shouldn't be happening in 2011, IMHO.

This is another telling insight.

With the marginal cost of IT these days (notwithstanding expensive ERP/CRM proprietary systems) at least compared to capex/opex for the actual metal, and other miscellany, there is no excuse not to have the most mind bogglingly awesome IT systems.

Why don't I ever receive an SMS if a flight is delayed. Related: arrived at 5AM for a 6.30ish MEL-OOL flight for a long weekend in Byron. With no SMS, no call - nothing - arrived to absolute shambles. The A330 (I think it was an A330) was swapped for another jet (I think am Embraer - not familiar with what VA metal flies what routes) and we were bumped to 9AM. Shocking.

How is it in this day and age that there is no sort of alert system. It's shocking.

----Not related to IT, related to customer experience:
As a result of the above clusterf#, paid for lounge entry x 2, realised I should just buy it, I did, the lady refused a refund of the once-off (I thought Branson had his staff asking for permission to say "no" to customers - yes I know it's not a pure Virgin .co). On principal chased the refund up.

 

[antycbr]

A couple of comments:

- No newsletter from Virgin targeting segments of customer base according to some sort of intelligence (imagine if the AFR targeted an mailing list with anticipated, timely, relevant advertisements and discounts) with discounts, offers, etc

View from a Gold flyer, they do this to a very limited extent with Gold, but this is mainly because most of the enhancements have been at the Gold level. You're right though, VA are just beginners in this field.

- No priority check-in for Lounge members (like QClub gets)

Funny you should mention this, it was removed from Qantas Club and Qantas Silver tier membership domestically about 12 months ago. This is one of the prime reasons why I switched over to VA.

- No Virgin Lounge at OOL

It's coming - see here and wade through 16 pages of posts. Q1 2012 and located above the current roofline. QC membership doesnt include access to the JQ Lounge which replaced the former QC lounge at OOL either.

- Can't recall if the AFR is provided in Virgin Lounges (it ought to be)

It is - but probably gets swiped by someone earlier in the day. QF do allow you to take The Australian out of the lounge complimentary which is a plus to QF. I doubt the AFR would be willing to be given away in lounges as there's a hefty price difference to The Australian.

- Check in process is an absolute disgrace. In this day and age with low marginal cost for data acquisition and analytics, the airline ABSOLUTELY has no excuse for not knowing the expected influx of passengers per flight (+/- some tolerance) with a resulting appropriate number of check in staff. The number of times I've been faced with *huge* queues, with minimal staff actually performing high impact checkin, and say 5 staff wandering around the queues or hanging around the back (this is at MEL) is truly astonishing. It's a nightmare and something that seriously needs addressing.

Three points to this - the thing that should be more accuarately modelled is the number of customers with checked in luggage/bag drop requirements and divert all others to the kiosks; secondly allow you to reprint your boarding pass using the kiosks and fix up their performance; and thirdly, at least there's still checkin staff, unlike another domestic airline which has a "next generation" check in where you perform the work of the crew.

 

[Friends of None]

A couple of comments:

...


.

Interesting!

Re: OOL JQ lounge: yep aware of that. That JQ lounge at OOL is a pigsty anyway, seriously. It's horrible. Rubbish everywhere, dirty carpet, benches, worn seating, it's horrible.

Re: Qantas Club members can't domestically check in priority: Are you sure? I have, several times, less than 6 months ago (MEL and Syd).

 

[antycbr]

With the marginal cost of IT these days (notwithstanding expensive ERP/CRM proprietary systems) at least compared to capex/opex for the actual metal, and other miscellany, there is no excuse not to have the most mind bogglingly awesome IT systems.

IT in aviation reservation systems is some of the most complex around - because its not just reservations, theres a heap of back of house systems. For example, the modules and products in Amadeus Altea include as part of the core:

• Customer profiles
• Availability
• Bookings
• Fares and Pricing
• Ticketing and e-Ticketing
• Inventory control
• Schedule management
• Reaccommodation
• Seating Management
• Check in
• Boarding Pass Issuance
• Baggage management
• Aircraft weight and balance

Then there's 25 modules on top of that. Qantas use parts of Amadeus Altea as their IT backbone after moving off internal systems.

The issues you see are that V Australia are on Amadeus (probably not Altea) and all DJ coded flights are on Navitaire New Skies. I expect the group will have to move up to Amadeus to support codeshares and all the other things that come from looking more like a full network carrier than a low cost carrier. However, Amadeus is obviously more capable, and more expensive than Navitaire.

 

[nlagalle]

Interesting!

Re: Qantas Club members can't domestically check in priority: Are you sure? I have, several times, less than 6 months ago (MEL and Syd).

It has been removed.. the reasoning was Next Gen checkin was supposed to remove the need for it.

 

[Friends of None]

The issues you see are that V Australia are on Amadeus (probably not Altea) and all DJ coded flights are on Navitaire New Skies. I expect the group will have to move up to Amadeus to support codeshares and all the other things that come from looking more like a full network carrier than a low cost carrier. However, Amadeus is obviously more capable, and more expensive than Navitaire.

Not saying they're not complex.

So basically, DJ can leverage off VA's investment in Amadeus?

I am not attempting to trivialise the systems, nor the migration - I work heavily in the area and have for many years, so appreciate the work and cost involved.

In any case, from a UX perspective, all it looks like is a rickety old cobbled together budget system, which probably to be fair, is what it was. Bootstrapped.

But with the new CEO, and new focus, clearly, that all needs to change, especially to capture business and PE customers.

Added benefit is budget customer base will experience improvements.

Everyone wins.

 

[Friends of None]

It has been removed.. the reasoning was Next Gen checkin was supposed to remove the need for it.

Oh, I still check in with staff. Perhaps that is why.

 

[antycbr]

Interesting!
Re: Qantas Club members can't domestically check in priority: Are you sure? I have, several times, less than 6 months ago (MEL and Syd).

You shouldn't be able to, according to an email sent on 6.10.2010 and referenced in this thread.

Changes to Silver Frequent Flyer and Qantas Club benefits
Domestic check-in changes

From 1 February 2011, with the introduction of Next Generation Check-in, access to priority check-in counters at domestic airports will no longer be available for Silver Frequent Flyers and Qantas Club members. This privilege will still be available for Qantas international flights.

 

[antycbr]

So basically, DJ can leverage off VA's investment in Amadeus?

I suspect (and someone with more knowledge may be able to definitively answer this) that there's two components - a set up fee, think lots of consultancy hours for the airline to put their configuration in place, and then a fee per reservation/departure/etc depending on the module being used. So as such it increases costs for every reservation/departure on an ongoing basis.

have a look at this link (bottom of page)

 

[DJ 1D]

From the past 24 hrs:

Good/great things:

- Last night Gold Velocity Centre helping to upgrade my two flights today using a taster for both me and my colleague (he's not a Gold) from a saver fare
- Getting on a new plane this morning and stretching out in the new biz seats at 7am
- Have fantastic service from the flight crew ("would you like a newspaper, can we get you anything else sir", etc etc)
- Showing up at the airport several hours early for return flight to get moved to the next Mel-Syd flight and put in Premium
- Watching our plane at gate 2 getting prepared (feels like you're sitting on top of it) in the lovely lounge
- Premium boarding working exactly the way it should

Not-so-good/bad things:

- Premium security line at Melbourne totally unpoliced. Really what's the point of having it?
- Getting on a rogue airplane (ok, luck of the draw I guess)
- Asking the scruffy CS with his shirt half untucked - "We're Premium, could I have some wa.." only to be cut off "I won't know if you're Premium until I see the manifest"
- Having scruffy CS say a few minutes later "Oh you are Premium" then disappear. Had to ask for water again.
- Passenger upgrade by scruff, then given full service from cute but ditsy FA.
- Scruff calling me and other passengers "mate, buddy, etc" then spending most of time flirting with cute FA and ignoring passengers
- Cute FA asking if we would like to purchase anything from the trolley.
- Did I mention that scruff was a wanker?

The point is of course that the crew, and in particular the CS, always makes the flight. So please please please get some consistency on the flight crew training!


Oh, and no more G&Ts. Tears be a streamin', mates...

 

[VMAN]

From the past 24 hrs:

Good/great things:

- Last night Gold Velocity Centre helping to upgrade my two flights today using a taster for both me and my colleague (he's not a Gold) from a saver fare
- Getting on a new plane this morning and stretching out in the new biz seats at 7am
- Have fantastic service from the flight crew ("would you like a newspaper, can we get you anything else sir", etc etc)
- Showing up at the airport several hours early for return flight to get moved to the next Mel-Syd flight and put in Premium
- Watching our plane at gate 2 getting prepared (feels like you're sitting on top of it) in the lovely lounge
- Premium boarding working exactly the way it should

Not-so-good/bad things:

- Premium security line at Melbourne totally unpoliced. Really what's the point of having it?
- Getting on a rogue airplane (ok, luck of the draw I guess)
- Asking the scruffy CS with his shirt half untucked - "We're Premium, could I have some wa.." only to be cut off "I won't know if you're Premium until I see the manifest"
- Having scruffy CS say a few minutes later "Oh you are Premium" then disappear. Had to ask for water again.
- Passenger upgrade by scruff, then given full service from cute but ditsy FA.
- Scruff calling me and other passengers "mate, buddy, etc" then spending most of time flirting with cute FA and ignoring passengers
- Cute FA asking if we would like to purchase anything from the trolley.
- Did I mention that scruff was a wanker?

The point is of course that the crew, and in particular the CS, always makes the flight. So please please please get some consistency on the flight crew training!


Oh, and no more G&Ts. Tears be a streamin', mates...

Wanker hey? I think I have had him before

Nothing bugs me more than having to ask fight for what is supposed to be a given.

I also had a rogue aircraft Tuesday night when travelling PE Taster. I am going to call the GAD and ask for a credit as I don't see why I shuld pay for a service I did not receive.

 

[Stitchit]

Sorry guys but this is all getting out of hand, I have been flying both airlines now extensively for coming on 30 years, I am an old Ansett fan of long standing and was sorry to see them go!! However despite Qantas picking up the baton and taking over the Ansett business and making puckets from it I do not see they should enjoy the loyalty that you are all bestowing on them. Their staff are commonly rude and indifferent, and their aircraft and getting long in the tooth.

With regards to seating initially I read this thread differently, what I think he was saying in the initial thread, is theplat and gold guys in their preferences have asked for an aisle or window andhave been given a middle seat. Poor baby!! The flight was obviously fulland because in their preferences they also ask for forward seating and end upin the middle .... so what, they can ask at the desk to change the seat, sodon’t they check their seating allocation after booking in?? Some flyers are just too precious,sure I am not impressed with the middle seat but if that is all there is Istill need to get home get over it!
Virgin is in the business of filling planes and that goes Qantasas well, they both will fill a plane if they can, these guys are just dreaming, if itwas their business that had to stay profitable, I would love to see whatdecisions are made.

With regards to having over weight cabin baggage, I JUST LOVE THIS ISSUE, if 130 passengers were just .5 kilo over (and many are and still get on) the plane would be only 75 kilos over but are they all. In the case of accident or mishap all that extra weight is over your heads and I for one do not want it dropping on my head!! Only too often I see obviously overweight cabin baggage being jammed into the lockers, many I time I am late to board and the racks are stuffed so full with only a few bags there is no room for others. Get real you guys there are others that fly on these aircraft, not just then selfish and oh so precious few!

Lounge food, both airlines could make a better effort with this matter, however, I would rather sit in Virgin's lounges, they are rarely jammed packed as the Qantas lounge, the food is fresh, and there is plenty of it.

What makes a good airline??? The staff ! they deal with all of us when we are stressed trying to get to meeting or field jobs, or over tied and just want to get home to our families at the end of a busy shedule and the Virgin Staff are enthusiastic and oh so helpfull even under pressure!

AND TO ANSWER THE OBVIOUS QUESTION NO I DO NOT WORK FOR THEM I HAVE MY OWN BUSINESS OF 38 YEARS STANDING, its about time a few of you just grew up!

 

[nlagalle]

Sorry guys but this is all getting out of hand, I have been flying both airlines now extensively for coming on 30 years, I am an old Ansett fan of long standing and was sorry to see them go!! However despite Qantas picking up the baton and taking over the Ansett business and making puckets from it I do not see they should enjoy the loyalty that you are all bestowing on them. Their staff are commonly rude and indifferent, and their aircraft and getting long in the tooth.

With regards to seating initially I read this thread differently, what I think he was saying in the initial thread, is theplat and gold guys in their preferences have asked for an aisle or window andhave been given a middle seat. Poor baby!! The flight was obviously fulland because in their preferences they also ask for forward seating and end upin the middle .... so what, they can ask at the desk to change the seat, sodon’t they check their seating allocation after booking in?? Some flyers are just too precious,sure I am not impressed with the middle seat but if that is all there is Istill need to get home get over it!
Virgin is in the business of filling planes and that goes Qantasas well, they both will fill a plane if they can, these guys are just dreaming, if itwas their business that had to stay profitable, I would love to see whatdecisions are made.

With regards to having over weight cabin baggage, I JUST LOVE THIS ISSUE, if 130 passengers were just .5 kilo over (and many are and still get on) the plane would be only 75 kilos over but are they all. In the case of accident or mishap all that extra weight is over your heads and I for one do not want it dropping on my head!! Only too often I see obviously overweight cabin baggage being jammed into the lockers, many I time I am late to board and the racks are stuffed so full with only a few bags there is no room for others. Get real you guys there are others that fly on these aircraft, not just then selfish and oh so precious few!

Lounge food, both airlines could make a better effort with this matter, however, I would rather sit in Virgin's lounges, they are rarely jammed packed as the Qantas lounge, the food is fresh, and there is plenty of it.

What makes a good airline??? The staff ! they deal with all of us when we are stressed trying to get to meeting or field jobs, or over tied and just want to get home to our families at the end of a busy shedule and the Virgin Staff are enthusiastic and oh so helpfull even under pressure!

AND TO ANSWER THE OBVIOUS QUESTION NO I DO NOT WORK FOR THEM I HAVE MY OWN BUSINESS OF 38 YEARS STANDING, its about time a few of you just grew up!

Well certainly an interesting first post! I'm not sure why you'd say poor baby.. QF have and excellent system in place for top tier member to have first cut at better seating. I believe all they are saying here is VA should be able to too. I agree with that 100%. I've only had one with QF for bad seating and it was my own fault for not doing an OLCI and my seat selection on a 767 was subbed to a 734. unlucky but i was moved from the back to the front.

It's funny you have posted about QF loyalty in a thread about Virgin... I think what people are saying in this thread is here is where Virgin can do better, and what is wrong with that?

I'll disagree with the QP v DJ lounge as the DJ lounge isn't close to the QF J lounges, but certainly on par or above some the normal QP's. Virgin need to have spirits in their lounge though.. QF is up there for me in that respect.