Feeling ripped off by Virgin advertising - we now serve food and beverage

[medhead]

Curious as to why you are defending VA with such vigor

Think of it more that I'm questioning unreasonable, false conclusions. Curious as to why no one answers the questions I raise but instead decide to attack me personally about being a bush lawyer, getting a TV or defending with vigour. :?: These responses certainly reinforce my feeling about the validity of these claims of misleading advertising.

 

[kalboy]

My 2 cents.
I have searched for the add in question as i guess its not played to us West Aussies who have had comp food and beverages since the inception of VA regional.
My first impression was that YES Red or white wine is complimentary I had to replay the add twice where in the voice over there is no mention whatsoever of any beverages.
It is quite clear in the visual of the add that the CSM is offering free wine.
Note: I quite fancy myself as a bush lawyer. I even live in the bush

link to add here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI05AJumAq0

 

[medhead]

My 2 cents.
I have searched for the add in question as i guess its not played to us West Aussies who have had comp food and beverages since the inception of VA regional.
My first impression was that YES Red or white wine is complimentary I had to replay the add twice where in the voice over there is no mention whatsoever of any beverages.
It is quite clear in the visual of the add that the CSM is offering free wine.
Note: I quite fancy myself as a bush lawyer. I even live in the bush

link to add here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI05AJumAq0

An advertisement that says food, checked baggage and entertainment now complimentary. It simply does not say wine is free. Everything's taken care of - yes we have wine on board, it's not free only food, checked baggage and entertainment is free. That also doesn't imply anything about every flight. Is it reasonable to assume that wine is free at 6am?

Or we can analyse the ad a bit further and see that it's about someone who has had a challenging day in the 9 to 5 grind of the rat race. Then when they get on the VA flight, after that loud noisy day at work, everything is taken care off including the wine, which just happens to be free after work between 5 and 7 pm.

Of course, if we go back to the overall impression question, that ad gives me the overall impression that I'll have a relaxing flight in economy - now that would be misleading.

 

[ozstamps]

Note: I quite fancy myself as a bush lawyer. I even live in the bush

link to add here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI05AJumAq0

Virgin is in a LOT more trouble than I thought - ACCC will eat them for breakfast if anyone complains, as the footage is clearly taken around midday, bright light everywhere, and streaming in through the window.

Certainly not 5pm to 7pm when it is pitch black outside.

And not a word of fine print in the entire ad that FA's do not stride personally to your seat at midday with a serving tray and free bottle of Shiraz or Riesling and a huge smile.

Fits all the ad lies to steal market share by deception that the High Court Judge outlined only a month back breached advertising conduct, and Australian law.

 

[bullerdude]

Think of it more that I'm questioning unreasonable, false conclusions. Curious as to why no one answers the questions I raise but instead decide to attack me personally about being a bush lawyer, getting a TV or defending with vigour. :?: These responses certainly reinforce my feeling about the validity of these claims of misleading advertising.

"Unreasonable, false conclusions" is your opinion.

"Misleading advertising" is my opinion.

 

[ozstamps]

I draw upon this example of misleading advertising for the ACCC website.

It makes no difference whether the business intended to mislead you or not. If the overall impression left by a business’s advertisement, promotion, quotation, statement or other representation creates a misleading impression in your mind—such as to the price, value or the quality of any goods and services — then the behaviour is likely to breach the law.

Correct. As stated in my first post, I have worked as an Account Executive in Advertising for a huge national company, and have formal qualifications in the field.

ANY "reasonable person" seeing that ad would assume wine is now free on Virgin domestic flights. Seeing they are trumpeting the NEW FEATURES. Hardly a huge whoopee really, nor hard to believe, seeing 100s of carriers globally offer it in economy as standard.

Anyway I have a living to make, in order to pay Virgin for my non existent booze. :mrgreen:

 

[medhead]

"Unreasonable, false conclusions" is your opinion.

"Misleading advertising" is my opinion.

Indeed, but I've outlined the reasons for my conclusion.

 

[samh004]

[-]I'm going to close this thread pending review.[/-] Things are getting a little heated and we need to remember to debate the topic, not each other.

Edit: Thread re-opened with certain posts edited, removed and a warning to keep it civil. Further attacks and insinuations on each other instead of a debate about the merits of the ad may result in infractions.

Please behave.

 

[RickyT84]

Was on VA 958 from BNE to SYD earlier this afternoon and received the infamous 'cheese and tomato' sandwich with an OJ.

Now that I have sampled VA's new food offering, I have to say the refreshment offering on QF is a bit better in terms of quality

 

[Milefest]

Medhead, I think the fact that a reasonable person is disagreeing with you validates the fact that it is misleading advertising. Advertising doesn't have to mislead everyone for it to be misleading.


Personally I found it slightly misleading, I was initially pretty excited when I heard food was being made available, though they meant snack, and on my route snacks were already available for free.
And an example of a misleading claim on the ACCC website was: "a jewellery store advertises that a watch 'was' $200 and is 'now' $100 when the store never sold the watch for $200"


There was even a thread about meals being rolled out and obviously most of us in there were mislead too by the prospect of food not snacks.


I do blame myself though for not reading the fine print properly but the fine print shouldn't change what the advertising was portraying, which it did, in the case of alcohol being served with no indication of the day or time.


Obviously this is all pretty subjective and it's pretty hard to change each others interpretation of the advertising. It seems pretty borderline to me.

 

[Revolio]

I think the bottom line for me is simply Virgin lack the understanding of the notion of basic common honesty.

 

[Buzzard]

When +1 and I flew VA recently, food was a Wagon Wheel biscuit and a cup of water.
I thought to myself prisoners get better than that.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

"Leave your cares behind and enjoy complimentary food, beverages, entertainment and checked baggage on domestic flights"

Underneath is a picture of an FA serving a red wine.

I'd bet my house that if you showed that Advert to a 1000 punters the vast majority of them would infer, incorrectly that VA are serving complimentary wine on their flights - all of their domestic flights.

IMHO the ad agency whether deliberately or not (more likely the former) are using powerful imagery to prime the audience into making a false assumption about the product.

I believe this is very true. Medhead is correct in what he says, but the intent to deceive is also fairly clear with the ads IMHO. Let's face it, VA have form when it comes to deceptive advertising. Remember the ads for the new lounges which showed spirits on the shelf? I don't think a VA lounge has ever provided spirits and in fact, why would VA put spirits on the shelf in an ad (when VA lounges do not have spirits on the shelf) if not for the intention of very deliberately using imagery over words to entice punters into purchasing something based on a false impression.

If it's not illegal, it must be walking a very fine line with toes definitely across it!

 

[pauly7]

When +1 and I flew VA recently, food was a Wagon Wheel biscuit and a cup of water.
I thought to myself prisoners get better than that.

7pm flight last night I had rice cracker / nut combo offered for 'dinner'. What a joke.

 

[anat0l]

7pm flight last night I had rice cracker / nut combo offered for 'dinner'. What a joke.

Did they call it "dinner"? If they said refreshment or snack, you at least do not have that leg to stand on.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Did they call it "dinner"? If they said refreshment or snack, you at least do not have that leg to stand on.

It really is semantics as to what they call it. Most of us believe flights between 5pm and 7pm are dinner flights (also served with wine). In fact I personally think any flight that includes that time slot should be classed as dinner flights but that's up to them to decide. It seems to me their "provide a snack" change has the potential to backfire on them as it seems they're copping more flack over the snack than what they copped when they didn't offer one. The flexi meal enhancement is absolutely disgraceful IMHO.

 

[anat0l]

It really is semantics as to what they call it. Most of us believe flights between 5pm and 7pm are dinner flights (also served with wine). In fact I personally think any flight that includes that time slot should be classed as dinner flights but that's up to them to decide. It seems to me their "provide a snack" change has the potential to backfire on them as it seems they're copping more flack over the snack than what they copped when they didn't offer one. The flexi meal enhancement is absolutely disgraceful IMHO.

It can matter to some degree; it's not merely semantics. Like shorthaul flying in Europe in Y class typically has snacks only. You may have a morning snack then an all day one, but nothing that could be construed as a meal, unless you're on a diet.

The QF crowd is "used" to the notion of meals and thus dinner in the evening. I can't remember what VA said when they announced free food on select sectors (not the coast to coast which clearly indicated meals), but I don't think it implied meals, just merely snacks or otherwise some sort of food.

The whole dinner timing thing is really only important if you are in Business.

I take note of your comment about possible backfire, though I suspect it's too late for them to go back now, unless it was something like, "You told us about the free snacks, we responded - no more free snacks, but tea, coffee and water still free... fares dropping by at least $5 across the network...."

I don't expect much from VA in Y. Last time I had a snack with them it was two finger sandwiches of tasteless tomato and plastic cheese on white bread, like Mum used to make for me when I was in kindergarten. I don't expect much because VA started (even when JB took over) with offering nothing, not even free tea, coffee or water.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I don't expect much because VA started (even when JB took over) with offering nothing, not even free tea, coffee or water.

That's very true, I didn't expect much back then either, but I do now because the fares have risen dramatically. I was considerably better off back before JB. No pretentions about being something the airline wasn't. I had a better choice of food, I had a better choice of ife, I seemed to have more availability, I seemed to have more frequency and I definitely had better fares. Sure, we had to pay for food and we had to pay for ife but it meant we could choose what we wanted and reject what we didn't want and I regularly used to pick up the short 1 hour sectors for $49. Those fares are long gone and are now double (at best) and they are trying to convince us they've offset that by providing cough ife and cough snacks. Admittedly, they did have to make some changes to stay afloat, but if I were given the choice, I'd take the way it was over what it is today, any day of the week.

 

[anat0l]

...if I were given the choice, I'd take the way it was over what it is today, any day of the week.

There's much in your post that many will (or must) concur with, but I'd say this last one is a big call.

As it stands, since you're still paying for VA, despite higher fares, it seems they are getting it right.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

There's much in your post that many will (or must) concur with, but I'd say this last one is a big call.

As it stands, since you're still paying for VA, despite higher fares, it seems they are getting it right.

They're getting some right, or perhaps more correctly, they got some right. Of late, most of what they're doing is not much better than insulting. Yes I do fly with them, but I have to fly with someone and I've been struggling with what to do for some time. After toing and froing, I'm now firmly committed to splitting my travel budget between QF and VA (I was about to write "splitting my loyalty", but then realised what a lie that would be, because I have no loyalty left for either VA or QF). I doubt I'll fly Tiger, but I won't rule it out and QF status will be largely earned/maintained by JQ flying. That way I'll maintain gold with both (or possibly by using the soft landing, I'll be able to retain plat with one and gold with the other on alternate years) and stuff both of them. I'll fly and pay, whoever represents the best value to me and use the status perks to the max.

As usual anat0l, you are of course correct with your assessment that my last comment was a big call. Yes it was a big call, but it was a call I did in fact think about. It's also very true. I was much better off the way it was with VA, after the idiotic sing-songs and lame jokes were consigned to history, but before the game change implementation. That was VAs, sorry, DJs best years....well for me anyway.