"Fees" for Free Tickets-I think FRAUD

[NM]

This is one of the main reasons my last DONE4 was all credited to AAdvantage. Much better value returned for the "investment".

As an example, I earned enough AA miles for 5 Return economy trips anywhere in Australia and New Zealand. As my most likely destinations are Perth or Auckland, this is a good return from one trip. If posted to QF, I would have earned enough QF FF points for 3 one-way trips to Perth or Auckland (from BNE).

So not only do the earned miles on AA get me more reward flights, they do not charge me for the fuel fines. So its better rewards with lower cash co-payments.

The down-side is that I only earned OneWorld Sapphire status through AA when I would have earned OneWorld Emerald through QF for the same trip. But since I have QF Lifetime Gold status I still get AC lounge access when flying AA in the USA, so the only real difference is that I will lose F Lounge access if I don't make AA Exec Platinum this year.

For me, the difference is the 5 return trips vs 3 one-way trips on top of the fuel fine fees on QF awards made it well worth the change to AA.

 

[JohnK]

So not only do the earned miles on AA get me more reward flights, they do not charge me for the fuel fines. So its better rewards with lower cash co-payments.

The down-side is that I only earned OneWorld Sapphire status through AA when I would have earned OneWorld Emerald through QF for the same trip. But since I have QF Lifetime Gold status I still get AC lounge access when flying AA in the USA, so the only real difference is that I will lose F Lounge access if I don't make AA Exec Platinum this year.

I know you have lifetime Gold so for you the need to take the family on a holiday was the decisive factor in crediting to AA.

If someone was not interested in the FF points wouldn't crediting this DONE4 to QF have been the smarter option. I think OneWorld Emerald is a little better than OneWorld Sapphire for someone with no status or needing to requalify existing status.

 

[NM]

I know you have lifetime Gold so for you the need to take the family on a holiday was the decisive factor in crediting to AA.

If someone was not interested in the FF points wouldn't crediting this DONE4 to QF have been the smarter option. I think OneWorld Emerald is a little better than OneWorld Sapphire for someone with no status or needing to requalify existing status.

Ahh, but this is just one trip. If I do another one similar then I get AA Exec Platinum status, which gets me OneWorld Emerald AND 8 x VIPOW upgardes for use on AA flights.

So it all depends on what you want from your FF program.

 

[Dave Noble]

I know you have lifetime Gold so for you the need to take the family on a holiday was the decisive factor in crediting to AA.

If someone was not interested in the FF points wouldn't crediting this DONE4 to QF have been the smarter option. I think OneWorld Emerald is a little better than OneWorld Sapphire for someone with no status or needing to requalify existing status.

I wouldn't agree here. Emerald is a prettier card but doesn't really give that much extra than Sapphire . Apart from F check in and Flounging , the benefits are pretty similar.

The value of the rewards are phenomenally better from the AA scheme than the QF scheme. Once you have lounge access and ability to avoid the scrum at economy check in, things are civilised

If someone had no status , I would definately not be pointing them towards the QF scheme

If someone was not interested in FF points , they would typically not be interested in FF schemes I would say.

Dave

 

[JohnK]

Ahh, but this is just one trip. If I do another one similar then I get AA Exec Platinum status, which gets me OneWorld Emerald AND 8 x VIPOW upgardes for use on AA flights.

So it all depends on what you want from your FF program.

Yes agree but most people only have the resources, time and money, to do a DONE4 at best once a year, more realistically only once every 2 to 3 years. Attaining AA Exec Platinum status is not even in the equation.

If you had the choice which is better? OneWorld Emerald or OneWorld Sapphire?

 

[Dave Noble]

If you had the choice which is better? OneWorld Emerald or OneWorld Sapphire?

The question in itself isn't valid. Emerald is slightly better than Sapphire... what matters is the overall value... to me Sapphire plus 5 r/t freebies is far better than Emerald plus 3 o/w free tickets. What seems relevent to me is status + points value . If it was a choice of base level vs sapphire or , even ruby vs sapphire , to me , the picture isnt so clear.

Dave

 

[JohnK]

The question in itself isn't valid. Emerald is slightly better than Sapphire... what matters is the overall value... to me Sapphire plus 5 r/t freebies is far better than Emerald plus 3 o/w free tickets. What seems relevent to me is status + points value . If it was a choice of base level vs sapphire or , even ruby vs sapphire , to me , the picture isnt so clear.

Dave there must be a difference between Emerald and Sapphire otherwise what compels people to strive for it.

I am just interested in status and yes I know that others are interested in the rewards that come with travel. Points, although I would not give them away, mean nothing to me. I have over 200,000 now and I am going to start wasting them on flights I do not need to take and go to places I do not need to be visiting. So what would I do with 5 r/t freebies? Give them to relatives or friends as a present? Possibly! I would rather have Emerald status and some more SC's closer to lifetime Gold.

And yes I know it is a long way away but Lifetime Gold is my ultimate goal. Now that I have Sapphire status I enjoy the perks that come with it and would love to have this status for the rest of my life or life of the QF FFP.

 

[Dave Noble]

Dave there must be a difference between Emerald and Sapphire otherwise what compels people to strive for it.

I am just interested in status and yes I know that others are interested in the rewards that come with travel. Points, although I would not give them away, mean nothing to me. I have over 200,000 now and I am going to start wasting them on flights I do not need to take and go to places I do not need to be visiting. So what would I do with 5 r/t freebies? Give them to relatives or friends as a present? Possibly! I would rather have Emerald status and some more SC's closer to lifetime Gold.

And yes I know it is a long way away but Lifetime Gold is my unltimate goal. Now that I have Sapphire status I enjoy the perks that come with it and would to have this for the rest of my life or life of the QF FFP.

I do not think that people do tend strive for it, it comes by virtue of doing the travel excepting ,perhaps, if needing to do a few flights to just scrape over. On QF, there is little benefit of Platinum over Gold

The benefits of platinum over gold are
F Lounge access
F Check in
Guaranteed availability of Y at 24 hours in advance
Unfettered QP access

The biggest benefit comes on attaining sapphire with the lounge access; having emerald is nicer but not that much so. On most of my trips a year, I travel domestically and the F lounges do not even exist

Consider the value of 200k miles.. With QF miles you cannot even get a business award r/t to London, whilst 160k would get an F ticket or 230k would get an F ATW award vs 422 on QF

I would say that Sapphire plus miles value is far better than Emerald and being fleeced when using the miles

In your situation, having QF Gold gives no benefits over AA Platinum

Dave

 

[JohnK]

In your situation, having QF Gold gives no benefits over AA Platinum

There is a huge benefit of having QF Gold over AA Platinum that you have overlooked.

I can buy the cheapest class airfares, domestic and international, with QF and still earn my SC's and minimum FF points + status bonus. I do not need to worry about spending extra money for higher class fares just to be eligible for EQM's on AA. The amount of money I can save by purchasing lower class airfares would be more than worth it in my situation.

 

[Dave Noble]

There is a huge benefit of having QF Gold over AA Platinum that you have overlooked.

I can buy the cheapest class airfares, domestic and international, with QF and still earn my SC's and minimum FF points + status bonus. I do not need to worry about spending extra money for higher class fares just to be eligible for EQM's on AA. The amount of money I can save by purchasing lower class airfares would be more than worth it in my situation.

Domestically, *only* N fares are non mileage earning and an S fare purchased from AA.com costs virtually the same (and can even be cheaper) as the N fare. Hardly a major issue

On most longhaul international routes , I find that cheap fares are eligable for miles. just checking SYD-LHR, the S fare is $46 more r/t than the Q fare.

I cannot see that being a huge benefit at all.

Dave

 

[dajop]

The benefits of platinum over gold are
F Lounge access
F Check in
Guaranteed availability of Y at 24 hours in advance
Unfettered QP access

The best benefit of platinum over gold is not written anywhere, and that is better access to FF seats (gold in turn have better access over silver, bronze etc).

 

[NM]

The best benefit of platinum over gold is not written anywhere, and that is better access to FF seats (gold in turn have better access over silver, bronze etc).

Actually, Gold and Platinum get the same access to FF seats. They both get to take economy reward seats from T as well as the general pool of X as used by Silver and Bronze members. There are only two levels - Platinum/Gold and Silver/Bronze when it comes to award seat availability.

Platinums have had the ability to have the res agent make a request to the yield management group to release an award seat, but that can only be done on the phone so is going to cost an extra 2500 points for starters, and I have been told they are less likely to make such a request as they were in year past.

 

[JohnK]

On most longhaul international routes , I find that cheap fares are eligable for miles. just checking SYD-LHR, the S fare is $46 more r/t than the Q fare.

On QF the difference between an N class fare (lowest non-upgradeable sale fare) and V class fare (upgradeable fare) SYD-SIN return was $150 in April. I wasn't given the option of an S class fare.

 

[dajop]

Platinums have had the ability to have the res agent make a request to the yield management group to release an award seat, but that can only be done on the phone so is going to cost an extra 2500 points for starters, and I have been told they are less likely to make such a request as they were in year past.

It is a shame that this is less likely, because I personally found this service the best benefit of being platinum (and 2500 pts is a small price to pay for much more flexibility). Over the last few years, I have used this for at least one sector on every reward booking I've made, and two of those were at very short notice so it & the extra 50% points is why I find that platinum is really worthwhile over gold.

 

[Yada Yada]

If someone was not interested in FF points , they would typically not be interested in FF schemes I would say.

I wouldn't agree with you on that one Dave. I'm interested in FF schemes but points are not very important to me at all. I've only used mine once. I'm more interested in attaining a status that gives me lounge access, better check-in options and hopefully a better seat, although I have to admit my experience has been that the better seats are never available. If I could swap my points for extra SC's that count towards lifetime status, I would.

I tend to think that what each person wants from an FF program varies according to their circumstances. With a young family, I prefer to be at home with them than spending my leisure time getting on a plane, and I'm only a semi-frequent flyer compared with you and others on this forum who clock up tens of thousands of miles every year. For others, perhaps they can't wait to get away! :shock:

 

[JohnK]

I'm interested in FF schemes but points are not very important to me at all. I've only used mine once. I'm more interested in attaining a status that gives me lounge access, better check-in options and hopefully a better seat, although I have to admit my experience has been that the better seats are never available.

I tend to agree with you Peter. Status is more important for some people and with my flying patterns I am just glad I have attained Gold status that allows me to have the perks that you mention above.

If I could swap my points for extra SC's that count towards lifetime status, I would.

Drop in a request in QF's suggestion box. They might listen.

 

[MikeG]

Interesting example:

Booked tickets for my wife and kids to accompany me to Melbourne (JetStar). $160.92 (fees ex GST) + $10.91 (fees ex GST)

To Book for one adult using FF points, it's 16000 points (ok) and $98.22 (fees ex GST) - What the &^%&^ ???

I smell a rort!!!! That's almost what it costs to fly my wife and three kids!!!

MikeG

 

[waltervp]

I personally am very disorganised and my plans change a lot. I forever seem to get depressed and annoyed with redeeming points. They do not work for people like me. The amount of surcharges and extra points that are always charged left right and centre always ensure I end up being worse off in the end. An example:

My last return fare from Devonport to Canberra with my wife: 16000 points each and about $150 each for taxes...
Only flights available were from Launceston for the dates I needed, one hours drive from home, and that was only with the Gold privileges that they could get me that redemption flight, an added 5000 for phone booking... The day before the flight Devonport seats become available. A changing fee of 5000 points applies. We get to Canberra, and wife gets sick and we need to go home a day or two earlier... no flights are available, I need to pay for a new one way ticket home, $250 or so. One day I can try to use the unused part of that trip... unlikely.

For me this is normal, nothing goes as planned for me, ever. I also make silly mistakes sometimes, which because of the restricted nature of these benefits costs points and money.

So yes, these taxes and other charges REALLY add up when you make mistakes, and it drive me nuts. Those surharges do not seem to be refundable. You try getting your airport taxes back just because you did not take the flight... Or just because I had to buy a whole new ticket home from the USA once do you think you even get the points for that flight you could not take? Forget it! Some sectors you get no points because of certain conditions... it all really gets my goat. Or you get charged additional luggage because the partner airlines (like AA) which are part of your Qantas ticket have different extra luggage privileges despite what Qantas allowed you on with. You check before your flight with Qantas and they assure you all is OK, yes your bike is free, yes Sir, you can take that extra piece of luggage the whole way...

I will spare you my other sop stories, but I have dozens related to frequent flier redemption flights! They include Virgin and United too. I am dutch jewish, so I continually keep on chasing my free lunches by nature, and (like Homer Simpson) seem to be bashing my head against a brick wall continuously. When will I stop??? I certainly am not loyal with any airline.

My next trip to USA/Europe in August is with United just to get away from OneWorld annoyances for one trip.

Sorry about my rant.

Walter----

Qantas Gold and Amex Plat (for the travel insurance benefits mostly).

 

[browski]

One more for the gouger monitors:

Purchase ticket Avalon - Adelaide return $134.00
Redeem ticket Avalon - Adelaide Return $113.12

Qantas/Jetstar are making $10 per person per leg

Stop the fight!

 

[ozstamps]

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1670646.htm

===========

British Airways suspends executives in response to price fixing allegations

http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/commo...//www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1670646.htmhttp://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common/mailto/mailto-nojs.plPM - Friday, 23 June , 2006 18:38:00

Reporter: Neal Woolrich

MARK COLVIN: The aviation industry has been stunned by price fixing allegations against British Airways, in a case that could turn up the heat on Australia's carriers.

BA has suspended two senior executives after a raid by the UK's Office of Fair Trading, the equivalent of our ACCC.

The key issue appears to be the hefty fuel surcharges the British Airways passengers have to pay.

Australia's competition watchdog says it will be monitoring the case. But airlines here are facing a backlash on a related front - the way those massive fuel surcharges inflate the cost of supposedly free tickets bought with frequent flyer points.

Neal Woolrich reports.

NEAL WOOLRICH: High fuel prices have been causing airlines headaches for more than two years. And now they could cause even more pain for one of the world's biggest carriers, British Airways.

Overnight the company suspended two senior executives, after it was raided by the UK's office of fair-trading last week. The airline says it's cooperating with an investigation into the existence of a possible cartel.

Virgin Atlantic, American Airlines and United are also assisting.

The investigation is focusing on ticket prices, and in particular the fuel surcharges that airlines have been imposing to cover the soaring cost of oil.