Fiji Horror on Pacific Blue

[Dalmien76]

Originally posted by Philip76
If the airline does not provide the carriage specified in the ticket (which in this case was a return to the Brisbane international terminal) then it has breached the contract and should refund the fare.

Firstly I want to address this by Philip76. Let me guide you to the Terms and Conditions of Carriage that Virgin Blue have when you purchase a ticket. Here are 2 points in particular that you should pay attention to:

8. The Guest acknowledges that the Carrier may need to cancel or delay and reschedule flights or services due to industrial action, landing restrictions, airport loading restrictions, unsuitable weather conditions, technical problems or any event beyond the Carrier's reasonable control, and scheduled flight times or destinations are not guaranteed. In no circumstances will the Carrier be liable for any Losses which a Guest may incur as a result of any such delayed or rescheduled flight or service.
9. If the Guest is landed at a destination other than that specified in the Booking, the Carrier will make all reasonable endeavours to convey the Guest to the specified destination, but undertakes no obligation to the Guest as to time or means of transport.

This means that the airline didn't break its contract, because this is what is agreed to when a guest purchases a ticket.

I want to say to "blundeni" that this above still is no excuse for bad service. However, tell me an airline, department store, utility company, or any customer service business that doesn't have bad apples.

In regards to the Virgin Blue conditions of carriage, you will also notice that QANTAS have one also. Found here: http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/beforeYouTravel/conditionsCarriageLong

Virgin Blue do have provisions in place for dealing with displaced guests when there are unforeseen issues like weather and unplanned engineering issues. They see the safety of their guests as paramount.

I am not here to convert those who don't like Virgin Blue because as far as I am concerned, no airline is perfect, in fact I have had my fare share of bad service with QANTAS both on the ground and in the air. I have also encountered the occasional bad apple with Virgin. All I'm saying is that the airlines would not purposely annoy, anger or pi** off their guests (or passengers) who keep their airline flying and profitable. Who would do that????

I did read though somewhere on this thread that if it weren't for DJ, then there would be no competition and QF would have the monopoly and no-one could afford to fly. All I am asking, is that remember that a few people who are bad apples in a company aren't indicative of what the entire airline is all about.

I actually congratulate the airport staff who can work at an airport, when a flight has gone US (unserviceable) or flight cancelled due to weather and have to deal with up to 180 angry or upset people. Remember, try putting yourself into their position and think how you would handle the situation. Don't just say "Well, I would handle it better than them." because trust me, it isn't the easiest job in the world, but it does have its rewards and thats why these people do that job.

"blundeni" I really hope that you get a suitable response from Virgin Blue and I am sure that you will.

In closing, there will always be "die-hard" QANTAS fans, and "die-hard" Virgin Blue fans, and no matter what anyone says, they will never be convinced to think anything other than good things about their alliance, but let me just say, consider the condition to which you are buying your ticket, they are practically the same for every airline. Each airline has a duty of care to return you back to your origin regardless of the mode of travel or airlline they wish to use to get you home (that is in their terms and conditions). And finally, don't let the experience of one upset staff member tarnish your experience of the whole airline....all you will do is just end up chasing your own tail rather than going on holidays and enjoying it for what it is.

I have had plenty of experiences where I was either delayed, was on a cancelled flight etc in lots of places around the world. I was even delayed by 2 days last november when there was massive storms up and down the east coast. Stuck in Melbourne for 2 days, but in the end I got home safely (which is my preferred method to return home) and it is all in the past. I have moved on. The airline isn't at fault, it was mother nature.

Anyway all, happy flying and I do encourage people that if they have bad experiences to forward to airlines Guest or Customer Relations for them to be notified. They can't do anything to fix it if they don't know about it. Any feedback is good feedback to an airline, its what helps them to improve.

Thanks.

 

[one9]

Firstly I want to address this by Philip76. Let me guide you to the Terms and Conditions of Carriage that Virgin Blue have when you purchase a ticket. Here are 2 points in particular that you should pay attention to:

...

Thanks.

Very good post

 

[bravoecho1]

Markis10 & Commuter,

I am catching up with one of the QF guys doing the course this weekend so I will comeback with a more detailed answer

I will try and rehash verbatim what was discussed however a few beers were consumed so bear with me.

The two new systems that are being implemented by QF is the HUD system as well as a new navigation system called RNP (Required Navigation Performance) which is like a high performance GPS.

By combining these two new systems, QF's limitations are reduced and can effectively operate into airports under Cat II (250 feet) and Cat III (0 feet) conditions.

The RNP system allows the aircrew to operate curved approaches ("like flying through a hose" was the description) and he showed some of their new Jep charts into places like CBR and ZQN (very impressive approach running down the valley coming over Lake Wakitipu). He did his first landing "in anger" under the new system into CBR the other day.

DJ is also introducing the RNP system however they are not introducing the HUD system so their allowances will not be as generous.

Alaska Airlines has had the HUD system in place for many years and has been running quite well on their 727's.

 

[Commuter]

Ah, thanks for the info BE1.

 

[serfty]

... Alaska Airlines has had the HUD system in place for many years and has been running quite well on their 727's.

Having been in ANC last month it's not hard to reason why.

(FWIW & IIRC, There's 3 or 4 'airports' within a 10 miles of each other. While I was there a military exercise was on and every 10 minutes or so a pair of FA18's or their ilk were either departing or landing; quite noisy ...)

 

[rpulvire]

I read this post as I was recently booked on this very same flight. I too have 2 young children and the thought of going through what you did really frightened me. As soon as I reached Nadi airport I was relieved to see the flight was leaving as normal and in fact it was very non eventful. The weather in Brisbane was terrible when we arrived so I doubt that excuse was true for cancelling your flight.

I wouldn't hesitate to fly Pacific Blue again and hopefully the reason they cancelled your flight will never happen again.

Ross

 

[ANDREWCX]

Some of the issues the original poster states are the sort of operational issues that are annoying & inconvenient but also an expected part of flying a LCC (or any airline) ie weather delay/cancellation, re-routing, missed connections, computer issues.

Some however are indefensible from any airline. I think the thing that I found worst was the total lack of empathy from the DJ staff member complaining she was cold when the PAX had been forced to stand in the cold for some time before she arrived. It costs nothing to show empathy, nor for that matter does communicating with PAX about what is happening, or ensuring that information is communicated to hotels etc about what has been offered to reaccomadated passengers.

DJ isn't alone in falling flat on this front but that doesn't change the fact that it is unacceptable and creates more bad will than is necessary so negatively impacts the airlines income.

Oh - and the whole "Pacific Blue is a different airline from Virgin Blue" thing is annoying, you can paint a different logo on the plane all you want but if you integrate booking, use the same prefix (they are all DJ flight numbers right?), and have 100% common ownership then you are in fact the same airline. Claiming they are not the same airline is the same as claiming Qantas Link and Qantas are not the same airline which is ridiculous (and I am sure that at some point some QF staffer has made such a claim as well).

Perhaps IF V-Australia actually launches, they should roll Pacific Blue into it (Does 1 airline really need 4 brands?) and take the opportunity to overhaul staff training etc. They also need to train DJ staff on how to interline pax better and maybe some general customer service training (is there such a thing as empathy training?). Certainly, hiring people with more life experience wouldn't hurt either.

 

[clifford]

Certainly, hiring people with more life experience wouldn't hurt either.

You mean people that have been out of high school for more than 6 months?

I had a terrible redeye flight from PER to MEL last week. Couldn't get any sleep at all due to the girlies cackling loudly all night in the rear galley.

Great airline!

 

[oz_mark]

Oh - and the whole "Pacific Blue is a different airline from Virgin Blue" thing is annoying, you can paint a different logo on the plane all you want but if you integrate booking, use the same prefix (they are all DJ flight numbers right?), and have 100% common ownership then you are in fact the same airline. Claiming they are not the same airline is the same as claiming Qantas Link and Qantas are not the same airline which is ridiculous (and I am sure that at some point some QF staffer has made such a claim as well).

I would argue that QantasLink is less Qantas that Pacific Blue is Virgin Blue. For the most part QFLink is actually different airlines (e.g. in WA it is NJS and Alliance), that operate under an umbrella brand under a contractual arrngement with QF. Pacific Blue is just a licensing thing, and the only DJ planes I have stepped foot on were painted in Pacific Blue colours (and it was just a normal domestic flight)

I would hope that they have improved in the two years since the OP.

 

[straitman]

I would argue that QantasLink is less Qantas that Pacific Blue is Virgin Blue. For the most part QFLink is actually different airlines (e.g. in WA it is NJS and Alliance), that operate under an umbrella brand under a contractual arrngement with QF. Pacific Blue is just a licensing thing, and the only DJ planes I have stepped foot on were painted in Pacific Blue colours (and it was just a normal domestic flight)

I would hope that they have improved in the two years since the OP.

I could be wrong here but I'm sure that the Pacific Blue flight I took from MEL - CHC earlier this year was on a Virgin Blue painted aircraft.

 

[NM]

painted in Pacific Blue colours (and it was just a normal domestic flight)

The Pacific Blue branding came about because Virgin Blue is not allowed to use the Virgin name for operations outside Australia. This was a condition imposed with Sir Richard sold his stake in the company in order to protect his Virgin branding.

 

[mainly tailfirst]

The Pacific Blue branding came about because Virgin Blue is not allowed to use the Virgin name for operations outside Australia. This was a condition imposed with Sir Richard sold his stake in the company in order to protect his Virgin branding.

Is it SRB's restriction? I thought it was SQ that forced the limitation? I.e. no airline that operated internationally was allowed to use 'Virgin' in the title - other than V Atlantic of course. Shame really, I think that Virgin Pacific would do rather well as a brand.

mt

 

[pauly7]

Is it SRB's restriction? I thought it was SQ that forced the limitation? I.e. no airline that operated internationally was allowed to use 'Virgin' in the title - other than V Atlantic of course. Shame really, I think that Virgin Pacific would do rather well as a brand.

mt

Yes, I thought SQ had the option though they have since dumped Virgin so I'm not sure who has the final say any more....

 

[oz_mark]

The Pacific Blue branding came about because Virgin Blue is not allowed to use the Virgin name for operations outside Australia. This was a condition imposed with Sir Richard sold his stake in the company in order to protect his Virgin branding.

Yes, but calling it a different name for its trans tasman operations does not make it a different airline.

 

[Fluid-Flyer]

Yes, but calling it a different name for its trans tasman operations does not make it a different airline.

Yes, but different seating, in flight entertainment and staff selection does!


e.g. Virgin Blue -

• Premium Economy
• Live2air
• No gimmicky staff announcements (although present on many Virgin Blue flights, but only on domestic routes that you might see a Pacific Blue aircraft sub for anyway).

Virgin Blue has been subtly, but clearly, moving its airline brands apart over the last little while. J

 

[rpulvire]

I flew from Bne to Darwin a couple of years ago and it was a pacific Blue plane so I agree, tryng to seperate the two, especially when the passenger has been so inconvenienced is simply outright rude.

 

[oz_mark]

Yes, but different seating, in flight entertainment and staff selection does!



e.g. Virgin Blue -

• Premium Economy
• Live2air
• No gimmicky staff announcements (although present on many Virgin Blue flights, but only on domestic routes that you might see a Pacific Blue aircraft sub for anyway).

Virgin Blue has been subtly, but clearly, moving its airline brands apart over the last little while. J

Bu that argument Qantas domestic and Qantas International are two different airlines.

 

[Fluid-Flyer]

Bu that argument Qantas domestic and Qantas International are two different airlines.

But they were!

I don't know anything about their internal business structures, so am unable to make any argument as to whether they systemically still are!

But then again, next breath; I'm prepared to argue that Jetstar & Qantas are the same airline. LOL

 

[NM]

Is it SRB's restriction? I thought it was SQ that forced the limitation? I.e. no airline that operated internationally was allowed to use 'Virgin' in the title - other than V Atlantic of course. Shame really, I think that Virgin Pacific would do rather well as a brand.

mt

may well have been SQ. Doesn't really make much difference to the need for Pacific Blue to operate under a different name to Virgin Blue.

 

[NM]

Yes, but calling it a different name for its trans tasman operations does not make it a different airline.

I agree ... and was trying to imply otherwise. Just noting the reason for the different name.