Fiji nightmare

[VPS]

Another reason not to rely on credit card insurance at this stage.

 

[N860CR]

Wow just saw Trip Advisor IC review, a family of 4 all positive.

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2022

This would be the dumbest ever revenue raising. Keep one family hostage for 2 weeks, scare off 100 others who cancel.

I’d generally agree. It seemed like a massive overreach when I first heard about it. But the more details come through, the more I think there’s something going on (and by that, either intentional positives or total incompetence with the testing provider).

I’m now hearing heaps of reports of the same (I’ve been glued to the phone this afternoon) and it’s largely coming out of the Marriott. I don’t know the name of the testing provider they’re using, but they’re charging double what each other resort is so I assume it’s not the same one. I’ve heard numerous cases now of people returning multiple negative RATS, but the one critical PCR is positive. These “isolation rooms” apparently run like a well oiled machine at a consistent occupancy and are being charged at extortionate rates. Each staff member is repeating the line “it’s fine, your insurance pays it” and they all seem to be of the opinion that once the 7 days is up, the “sick person” heads on a plane home. That’ll only work if the next PCR is negative. The biggest giveaway seems to be that not a single person is actually sick or showing a symptom. There’s no medical support in these “isolation” rooms, not even a phone call checkup from a nurse, so there’s clearly not a single concern about people actually being unwell. It’s easy to forget sometimes, but we are still talking about a virus here!

The other half of the couple has made it out. Apparently on checkout the bill was littered with errors, overcharges, other peoples meals etc. In their own words; “the pool was full of bogans who wouldn’t know if they had 5 or 50 coughtails so it’s just a license to print money”.

When it comes down to conspiracy or incompetence, I always lean to incompetence. But there’s a few too many ducks lining up in a row.

 

[Quickstatus]

RAT has a 70 to 90% false negative rate, depending on who made it.

Incorrect but also it is a bit more complicated that that:
The False negative rate is 1- sensitivity
The False positive rate is 1-specificity
No TGA approved RAT tests have a sensitivity of less than 80%. This is because the WHO minimum sensitivity for RAT is 80%.

For example Abbott PanBio is quoted to have a sensitivity of 98.1% and specificity 99.8
That means:
The false negative rate is 1-98.1% = 1.9% or 19 our of 1000 will be a False negative
The false positive rate is 1-0.998 = 0.002% or 2 per 1000 will be a False positive.

At worst any TGA RAT test False negative rate will be no worse than 20% (assuming the test is done properly)

See here for the low down on sensitivity and specificity.
Now here is the catch and there is more... - the prevalence of the disease in the population affects the predictive value of the test whatever the sensitivity and specificity
Look at how the positive and negative predictive values (PPV and NPV) change depending on the prevalence of disease in the community on Table 2 and Table 3 for the same test and the same sensitivity and specificity - the narrative provides the explanation.

The PPV and NPV are actually the important consideration when a test is used - but this depends on the prevalence of the disease in the community.

 

[stryker]

Slightly off topic, but Fiji doesn't seem to be the only place where such scams might be happening...

Good Experience Entering Thailand Under The Test&Go Scheme (JAN12) With Bad Follow Up Test Availability

My experience using the Test&Go program to enter Thailand.

clicks.aweber.com

 

[N860CR]

I think the answer right now is to stick with countries that aren’t Covid-Crazy. The United States, most of Europe, South Africa etc.

While these “bubbles” seem good in theory, they involve a lot of testing and therefore risk. That risk is then in a country that is very panicked about the virus still and will lock you up at the drop of a hat.

When traveling to Europe late last year I needed zero tests transit Japan, zero to get into the UK, a self administered RAT on arrival that I could have gotten away without doing, nothing more than my vax certificate to get to Portugal and then a PCR for my return home. Had that turned out positive, I’d at least have been free to manage it as I chose; not be dragged off to the gulags

 

[straitman]

No argument from me there. I was fairly sure it wouldn't be covered, but they called Allianz prior to departure and were told it was ok. I was pushing for a separate Covermore policy...

Westpac apparently now actually issue a certificate of cover (like CBA do). You input your travel details and it spits out a policy document.

Like the Westpac policy the CBA Covermore policy does not cover pandemics whereas the purchased policy does.

 

[henrus]

Like the Westpac policy the CBA Covermore policy does not cover pandemics whereas the purchased policy does.

This brings it back to the point about entry requirements for Fiji:



Fyi this comes off the Jetstar covid details -> Sherpa – Move Freely
but the same info can also be found on Timatic (it's currently point 6 when you click on Fiji -> IATA - International Travel Document News

 

[N860CR]

This brings it back to the point about entry requirements for Fiji:

View attachment 269224

Fyi this comes off the Jetstar covid details -> Sherpa – Move Freely
but the same info can also be found on Timatic (it's currently point 6 when you click on Fiji -> IATA - International Travel Document News

I think it’s fairly hard for the checkin staff to decipher if there is an exclusion for covid. It’s hard enough for the actual customer… Provided they see a policy document with the correct dates then I assume that’ll tick the box.

 

[maccaisking]

I think it’s fairly hard for the checkin staff to decipher if there is an exclusion for covid. It’s hard enough for the actual customer… Provided they see a policy document with the correct dates then I assume that’ll tick the box.

We had our Virgin check in staff member mention she had seen the policy several times, but still scroll it until finding the COVID cover section. As a COVID inclusive TI policy is required to travel to Fiji, there should be no financial concerns with extra accommodation. And $550 FJD inlcuding meals is less than what most resorts would get for their rooms at this time of year if they were able to fill them.

This doesn't excuse any questionable tests/results or make it easier on people who can't get home, but if people are out of pocket on accommodation because they have travelled without a suitable policy it's really on them.

 

[straitman]

This brings it back to the point about entry requirements for Fiji:

View attachment 269224

Fyi this comes off the Jetstar covid details -> Sherpa – Move Freely
but the same info can also be found on Timatic (it's currently point 6 when you click on Fiji -> IATA - International Travel Document News

It is all covered here. Fiji Entry Requirements.

 

[N860CR]

We had our Virgin check in staff member mention she had seen the policy several times, but still scroll it until finding the COVID cover section. As a COVID inclusive TI policy is required to travel to Fiji, there should be no financial concerns with extra accommodation. And $550 FJD inlcuding meals is less than what most resorts would get for their rooms at this time of year if they were able to fill them.

This doesn't excuse any questionable tests/results or make it easier on people who can't get home, but if people are out of pocket on accommodation because they have travelled without a suitable policy it's really on them.

That’s interesting. More commitment than I’ve seen from checkin staff. You’re generally just issued a certificate of cover, so the staff member used that to find the PDS and scroll through the hundreds of pages to make sure there wasn’t a clause that would cause issue?

When I went to Fiji with some friends a few weeks ago a couple of them bought a policy from covermore. It was about $45. Insurance companies feel they aren’t in the business of paining out, so I can’t see them happily paying 14 x $550 plus testing costs, flights etc etc if this issue remains widespread. It’ll just be the end of travel insurance again

 

[flyfl]

I flew back home on the weekend after my negative PCR result.

@straitman if you are staying in Pacific Harbour you can do your PCR test at Navua hospital where I did mine and it cost $150 Fijian with the taxi fare on top of that. Otherwise all Nav Med labs charge $180 and have several locations in Nadi.
I stayed at Radisson in Nadi and they were very pushy with the PCR testing and to me it seemed they are getting commissions and they know that people staying there would probably pay extra to get the test done through them for the sake of convenience.

I just read on the age a family in a similar situation where they are separated and stuck there to complete the 14 days required by our government.

‘Insane catch-22’ rule turns Fiji holiday into a nightmare

Melbourne mother Martina Cullen has been left marooned and thousands of dollars out of pocket due to an Australian government rule on travellers that have tested positive to COVID-19.

www.theage.com.au

 

[straitman]

I flew back home on the weekend after my negative PCR result.

@straitman if you are staying in Pacific Harbour you can do your PCR test at Navua hospital where I did mine and it cost $150 Fijian with the taxi fare on top of that. Otherwise all Nav Med labs charge $180 and have several locations in Nadi.
I stayed at Radisson in Nadi and they were very pushy with the PCR testing and to me it seemed they are getting commissions and they know that people staying there would probably pay extra to get the test done through them for the sake of convenience.

I just read on the age a family in a similar situation where they are separated and stuck there to complete the 14 days required by our government.

‘Insane catch-22’ rule turns Fiji holiday into a nightmare

Melbourne mother Martina Cullen has been left marooned and thousands of dollars out of pocket due to an Australian government rule on travellers that have tested positive to COVID-19.

www.theage.com.au

Thanks. Our resort has an arrangement with a lab in the Suva area. (It may be the hospital). It’s $150 if we go there or $250 if they come to us. The resort is not getting a commission on that.
We can get a van down and back for a reasonable price.
We still my head up to the Hilton DT but it’s becoming less likely.

 

[Vic]

Incorrect but also it is a bit more complicated that that:
The False negative rate is 1- sensitivity
The False positive rate is 1-specificity
No TGA approved RAT tests have a sensitivity of less than 80%. This is because the WHO minimum sensitivity for RAT is 80%.

For example Abbott PanBio is quoted to have a sensitivity of 98.1% and specificity 99.8
That means:
The false negative rate is 1-98.1% = 1.9% or 19 our of 1000 will be a False negative
The false positive rate is 1-0.998 = 0.002% or 2 per 1000 will be a False positive.

At worst any TGA RAT test False negative rate will be no worse than 20% (assuming the test is done properly)

See here for the low down on sensitivity and specificity.
Now here is the catch and there is more... - the prevalence of the disease in the population affects the predictive value of the test whatever the sensitivity and specificity
Look at how the positive and negative predictive values (PPV and NPV) change depending on the prevalence of disease in the community on Table 2 and Table 3 for the same test and the same sensitivity and specificity - the narrative provides the explanation.

The PPV and NPV are actually the important consideration when a test is used - but this depends on the prevalence of the disease in the community.

I was just going on the discussion at work. I guess people in the health care system won't know.
Still 80%, that 2 in 10... Right in the middle between 1 in 10 and 3 in 10...

 

[Quickstatus]

Right in the middle between 1 in 10 and 3 in 10

But that is very different to a “false negative rate of 70-90%”.
Again the worst False negative rate of the currently available RAT is 20%. At best it’s around 2%.

Wherever you heard it, I am just saying that it is wrong. Any Test that has a false negative rate of 70% would have not been approved by the TGA.

 

[maccaisking]

That’s interesting. More commitment than I’ve seen from checkin staff. You’re generally just issued a certificate of cover, so the staff member used that to find the PDS and scroll through the hundreds of pages to make sure there wasn’t a clause that would cause issue?

When I went to Fiji with some friends a few weeks ago a couple of them bought a policy from covermore. It was about $45. Insurance companies feel they aren’t in the business of paining out, so I can’t see them happily paying 14 x $550 plus testing costs, flights etc etc if this issue remains widespread. It’ll just be the end of travel insurance again

Yep. Checked names on certificate of insurance matched people present, then that policy title matched PDS, and searched for COVID in the PDS (I had it all in one email). It was quite thorough.

 

[wandering_fred]

@straitman
Any thoughts on the issues of age (70+) on the travel insurance and the associated covid regulations?

I would rather be wandering
Fred

 

[straitman]

@straitman
Any thoughts on the issues of age (70+) on the travel insurance and the associated covid regulations?

I would rather be wandering
Fred

Fiji offers Covid insurance (not travel insurance) for everyone from $US39.99. The potential issue is it is only for up to 15 days and cannot be extended or run back to back with a second purchase. FijiCare Insurance. I just looked it up and it does not look to have changed. We didn't use it as we are here for 20 days. The way it is put together though and what it covers really makes a 2 week stay optimal.

 

[cmon0005]

We did an impromptu family trip to the Coral Coast in Fiji (with 2 kids) during the new years period, and had a great time, the resort testing RAT and PCR was all very smooth, and we departed without issue. Though the cost of the PCR was a bit off-putting, though still worth it to go on our first international trip in 2 years!

 

[Quickstatus]

cost of the PCR

All up can you answer:
1) the number of RATS and PCR each person had to do to make the trip happen
2) the total cost of all that testing