Fixing QF Lifetime Status

[_TheTraveller_]

I'll take a lower boost like 300-400SC. The point is really that those with LTG are in a different cohort (those loyal to QF) should be rewarded (from a customer's perspective).

I don't think anyone is suggesting that QF cares about us or that we're entitled to these perks. Instead it's more commentary on the lack of forward thinking and innovation at QF. Giving these perks to LTG creates a revenue stream that would be consistent driven by additional spending.

I'm not too familiar with the FFP or aviation economic but I don't see the downside. If anything, it could even drive additional spending to motivate some to reach LTG. Those who suggest that most people don't care are most likely right but besides implemention costs, what does it really cost them? A few glasses of bubble and a meal?

 

[Peasant]

Or playing devil’s advocate, perhaps they could stagger the annual SC deposit based on your lifetime total as milestone awards. Eg 16,000 SCs gets you 200 a year, 18,000 is 300 a year, 20,000 is 400 a year, and so it goes on.

Probably a difficult piece of tech to implement, especially given QF’s record.

 

[exceladdict]

I think the trouble with any 'lifetime' status offers us it's hard to amend without an uproar, and an uproar not from occasional buyers but in theory your most loyal (or at least your most loyal in the past) customers.

The risk of introducing new benefits that then cannot be removed is high.

And if current loads are strong and prices are high, there's less need to activate this cohort. The current rollovers etc and busy lounges exacerbate this too (eg. more LTGs hitting WP puts more pressure on the Dom J lounges).

If/when this changes, perhaps qf would look at trying to recapture some of this cohort with incentives. It could always try it temporarily (fly with us 8 times for a 600sc boost towards WP!)

 

[flyingfan]

I don’t think QF will fix it in any appreciable way (and if it tried it would make the SC conditions of #*^+~ even more complex.

When they don’t deliver the advertised basics (as OP mentioned ages ago in a different thread), other change is unrealistic. Their staff don’t often come across identifying and valuing pax status and going ‘How can I really amaze the P1?’ It’s more like how they can complete their service items and get the next flight over and done with.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I don’t think QF will fix it in any appreciable way (and if it tried it would make the SC conditions of #*^+~ even more complex.

When they don’t deliver the advertised basics (as OP mentioned ages ago in a different thread), other change is unrealistic. Their staff don’t often come across identifying and valuing pax status and going ‘How can I really amaze the P1?’ It’s more like how they can complete their service items and get the next flight over and done with.

The big problem with Qantas is their benchmark of success is Virgin.
Nobody is pushing them to be better.

Outside of Australia, Qantas is a nothing-burger brand.
Internationally, nobody gives two hoots about QF, and travellers definitely wouldn't pay any kind of premium to fly them.

I think a time will come, in the not-too-distant future, when Qantas is forced to re-imagine the entire loyalty program.

Think of the loyalty program like a plane.

It was great when it was new - a dream to fly. The latest and greatest technology.
Sure, there were issues, but those could be quickly fixed.

New interior after 10 years, upgrade the IFE, and a new coat of paint and you've extended the life for another few years.

However, now, QF Loyalty is running the equivalent of a 747-400 when there are A350s out there.

There's nothing wrong with the 747.
It's just that the A350s are better.

Fixing lifetime status is just one of many things that need an overhaul.
We're at a point now where it's probably easier, and cheaper, to buy a whole new thing rather than retrofit the 747.
Not a new loyalty platform, but a new FFP design and proposition for frequent flyers.

Lifetime status
Status benefits at each tier
Tier realignment for 2023 and beyond
International co-brand credit cards
Loyalty ancillary products
...the list goes on...

I'm sure that flogging credit cards and home insurance is making money for QF Loyalty, but it sure as heck isn't doing anything to inspire the customer of tomorrow (20-30yr olds), which QF will know - is the least loyal audience they have, and a group that has lower LTV versus the same age group 10 years ago.

Additionally, Qantas Loyalty can't grow anymore in Australia without major program changes. So where's the future for loyalty?
It' sure as heck aint in hammering bonus points from banks.

The most logical solution for program growth is to venture outside of Australia.

However, to play in those markets, the program must change - because QF FFP as it stands today is what I would consider "poor value" for someone living outside of Australia.

Fixing lifetime status is one step of many that QF Loyalty needs to take.

 

[exceladdict]

The big problem with Qantas is their benchmark of success is Virgin.
Nobody is pushing them to be better.

Outside of Australia, Qantas is a nothing-burger brand.
Internationally, nobody gives two hoots about QF, and travellers definitely wouldn't pay any kind of premium to fly them.

I think a time will come, in the not-too-distant future, when Qantas is forced to re-imagine the entire loyalty program.

Think of the loyalty program like a plane.

It was great when it was new - a dream to fly. The latest and greatest technology.
Sure, there were issues, but those could be quickly fixed.

New interior after 10 years, upgrade the IFE, and a new coat of paint and you've extended the life for another few years.

However, now, QF Loyalty is running the equivalent of a 747-400 when there are A350s out there.

There's nothing wrong with the 747.
It's just that the A350s are better.

Fixing lifetime status is just one of many things that need an overhaul.
We're at a point now where it's probably easier, and cheaper, to buy a whole new thing rather than retrofit the 747.
Not a new loyalty platform, but a new FFP design and proposition for frequent flyers.

Lifetime status
Status benefits at each tier
Tier realignment for 2023 and beyond
International co-brand credit cards
Loyalty ancillary products
...the list goes on...

I'm sure that flogging credit cards and home insurance is making money for QF Loyalty, but it sure as heck isn't doing anything to inspire the customer of tomorrow (20-30yr olds), which QF will know - is the least loyal audience they have, and a group that has lower LTV versus the same age group 10 years ago.

Additionally, Qantas Loyalty can't grow anymore in Australia without major program changes. So where's the future for loyalty?
It' sure as heck aint in hammering bonus points from banks.

The most logical solution for program growth is to venture outside of Australia.

However, to play in those markets, the program must change - because QF FFP as it stands today is what I would consider "poor value" for someone living outside of Australia.

Fixing lifetime status is one step of many that QF Loyalty needs to take.

Some questions/thoughts:
- what are the A350s in the market?
- do they appeal to Gen Y/Z?
- how connected is the the growth for QF Loyalty to QF the airline? The discussion of fixing lifetime status is part of the connection between the two, but for QF and other major comparable programs, where does most of the revenue and recent growth come from?

Somewhat relevant:

 

[CaptJCool]

It’s easy to earn

It’s awful to burn
Too many people competing for the quite small numbers of classic rewards

And what with inflated housing prices, HECs absorbing larger and larger chunks of income let alone the new bubs or two cutting off one income for a time, high costs of childcare, and yet to be received inheritances as parents live longer, superannuation accessible only after age 60, this will be the lowest loyal fan club in living memory

 

[Vic]

Regarding Penny Wong's status. Firstly, she is a senator not an employee, different travel rules. I'd assume it was all business travel, from the parliamentary allowances as per the rules. Or a substantial proportion (98%+) was business.

I have no idea how many times a year they have to go to Canberra. But lets say a very low estimate:

• 10 times per year.
• She first got elected in 2001.
• Ten years pre-simpler and fairer (roughly)
• Poor frequency Adelaide to Canberra, so the majority would be ADL-SYD-CBR, in business.
• Earning ADL-CBR 60 SC BS&F, ADL-SYD-CBR 100 SC BS&F
• So first 10 years as a senator minimum 12000 to 20000 SC
• Another 11 years at lower earn 8800 to 17600 SC

Absolute minimum earn is 20800 to 37600 SC.
Plus she has had various ministerial and leadership roles since 2007. So she hasn't done bare minimum, by any stretch of the imagination. Including numerous overseas trips, all in business IMO.
For mine 75000 SC would've been too easy.

 

[moa999]

most logical solution for program growth is to venture outside of Australia.

Can't see there's much ability for QFF to grow outside Australia.

The carrot (or value) in an airline FF program is the access to cheap/marginal cost seats that can be redeemed at good value. Redeeming for toasters or gift cards is not good value (as we all know), and little more than a cash back program.

Qantas simply can't offer a range of flights outside of Australia (other than to maybe some NZrs)

When Air Canada sold off Aeroplan, think they had a contract for a set number of seats per plane at X price for 15 years.. Air Canada cancelled this in 2017 and threatened to setup a new program, before eventually buying Aeroplan back off what is now called Aimia a little later for not a huge amount.

--

And while many of us have decided not to push for Lifetime Platinum.. as above for some people it is attainable
And if you make it too easy, then you get the opposite problem of people not needing to be loyal to retain Platinum status every year.

 

[exceladdict]

From today's https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-releases-update-to-long-term-strategy/

• Qantas Loyalty to reach its FY24 EBIT target of $500m-$600m, increasing to $800m-$1,000m by FY30. Key profit drivers will be continued expansion into hotels and holidays, more partnerships including ‘points burn’ opportunities with major retailers, diversification in financial services and growth of the existing Qantas Business Rewards program for SMEs.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

From today's https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-releases-update-to-long-term-strategy/

So more ways of ineffectively using points.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Can't see there's much ability for QFF to grow outside Australia.

The carrot (or value) in an airline FF program is the access to cheap/marginal cost seats that can be redeemed at good value. Redeeming for toasters or gift cards is not good value (as we all know), and little more than a cash back program.

Qantas simply can't offer a range of flights outside of Australia (other than to maybe some NZrs)

When Air Canada sold off Aeroplan, think they had a contract for a set number of seats per plane at X price for 15 years.. Air Canada cancelled this in 2017 and threatened to setup a new program, before eventually buying Aeroplan back off what is now called Aimia a little later for not a huge amount.

--

And while many of us have decided not to push for Lifetime Platinum.. as above for some people it is attainable
And if you make it too easy, then you get the opposite problem of people not needing to be loyal to retain Platinum status every year.

I know a couple of people who are LTP but they are also P1.
I think a lot of current LTP will be P1 so for them there is an incentive to keep crediting to QF otherwise they get downgraded to WP.

 

[encryptededdy]

I know a couple of people who are LTP but they are also P1.
I think a lot of current LTP will be P1 so for them there is an incentive to keep crediting to QF otherwise they get downgraded to WP.

I guess this is true, although I feel if they made it Lifetime Platinum One there would be less complaints about the 75,000 SC threshold. Evidently QF have decided it's either too expensive to do, or, as you suggest, there's a reasonable number of LTPs who still push to retain P1. Doesn't LTP already give you access to the VIP service team anyway?

Will it create two classes of Platinum, one who had to earn 1200 and another 600?

I was just thinking about this, and I guess JAL Mileage Bank sort-of does this. They have a sorta-lifetime status system called JAL Global Club (JGC), which is a whole thing in and of itself (see Japan: The Only Country Where You Can Buy Status with All 3 Alliances?), but basically if you have JGC, which gives you "lifetime" Sapphire, you can achieve "JGC Premier" by earning 80,000 FLY ON Points. Everyone can achieve JAL Diamond status by earning 100,000 FLY ON Points.

Both JGC Premier and Diamond are oneworld Emerald, but Diamond is a bit above JGC Premier in terms of benefits. Similarly, JGC Sapphire is slightly above regular JGC.

Additionally, they have a whole lifetime mileage thing where if you're JGC and hit 2 million international miles (or 2250 domestic sectors), you get JGC (oneworld Sapphire) + JAL First Lounge access.

Overly complicated loyalty systems really seem like a uniquely Japanese thing.

Even if Qantas doesn't want to add a lower Lifetime Platinum tier (maybe they're worried about funding everyone's oneworld Emerald lounge expenses?), they could add mid tiers such as Sapphire + access to F lounge when flying QF or a Platinum-lite which is just Gold + oneworld Emerald, but with none of the other Platinum benefits.

 

[CaptJCool]

A high proportion of QFF are medium and high affluence, particularly tiered members

slide pack 8 Qantas | Investors - Home

https://investor.qantas.com/DownloadFile.axd?file=/Report/ComNews/20230530/02670818.pdf

Higher affluence consumers continue to spend proportionally more on travel than the remaining consumer base

Fit-for-purpose network profitably serves a widely dispersed domestic population Slide 19
HIGH VOLUME TRUNK
Links largest populations together (e.g. SYD, MEL, BNE, PER)
• High corporate and SME1 traffic
• Premium customer offering focus

SUB TRUNK
High premium leisure traffic with supporting business

slide 59 Credit card spend in Australia earns Qantas points >35% of cards pour points into QFF
Higher annual spend³ comparing QFFs to the Australian average

slide 61
20% more points redeemed • Airline redemptions 12% higher • Non-airline redemptions 48% higher

and all they've got to say about 'burning' rewards
slide 63 Diversifying redemption offering with smaller, more attainable rewards for more frequent engagement

Redemption growth driven by expansion and diversification of Loyalty’s proposition
slide 64 Maintaining strong value airline rewards complemented with more options to use points on flights
Continued innovation in expanding flight reward product suite to meet member demand

so it looks like fixing Lifetime status is not on the cards.... and t here's no such thing as a FREE lunch

 

[Seat0B]

I'm pretty sure I am the kind of person QF would want to be trying to keep loyal. I've earned almost 33k lifetime status credits and attained LTG many years ago (so pretty rusted on). I have previously been P1 for 4 years (never likely again) and also WP for 10 years. Currently WP.

But as I am in my 60s and semi-retired, there is no chance at all that I will ever make LTP with only 42k more SC needed

And yet, I take 1 overseas trip in J every year, plus a second overseas J trip most years, plus a few domestic flights to see family and occasionally also for work. And I take Mr Seat 0A with me on all these trips (he's an LTG after dropping from WP a few years back), so QF gets a fair wodge of money from the Seat family each year (realistically $50k plus every year for the past 10 years, pandemic years excluded, for the 2 of us). As we move to full retirement in the next couple of years, I expect that to increase to 2 trips every year and a 3rd trip (so about $70k for the 2 of us) in some years for about 10-15 years until we get too old to travel.

In the years when I take 2 overseas trips, judicious use of DSC offers is enough to keep me at WP and I am therefore loyal to QF even if the fares cost a bit more. I value things like F Lounge access, speedier phone connections and access to HBA, release of a reward seat every now and then and priority check in regardless of class of travel, so will choose QF for revenue fares most times. Thanks to pandemic status credit rollovers, I have managed to retain WP for a few years now even when I only take 1 overseas trip.

The thought of being downgraded to just LTG and losing access to all the things I value about being WP after my long period of loyalty to QF (and having more than double the required SC for LTG ) just makes me feel really really resentful. I know some will say that this is an entitled mentality, but it is how I feel about my loyalty relationship with QF - it's pretty one way. And sure LTG is better than nothing, but as I only fly J, it's pretty clear that most airlines treat their paying J customers at least as well as QF do and maybe, probably, if everyone on AFF is to be believed, actually better than QF do. I will get virtually identical benefits on any airline as a paying J customer as I will get by being a QF LTG.

So at the point when I also drop to LTG, which is inevitable in the next couple of years, there will be absolutely no incentive for me to stay loyal to QF and our travel will move to BFOD - for which I will get similar perks to LTG and potentially better service at a cheaper price. I don't know why QF does not want my money. The cost of 2 people, using the F lounge twice a year surely cannot be that great that they would let a proven loyal customer walk....but that is exactly what will happen.

 

[encryptededdy]

Most (if any?) other airlines don't offer the SC boost as suggested here for their lifetime status members, but Alaska Airlines actually just announced new perks for lifetime members. Specifically, lifetime MVP Gold now starts the year with 20k EQMs and MVP Gold 75K starts the year with 40k EQMs.

For context, MVP Gold (Sapphire), MVP Gold 75K (Emerald), and MVP Gold 100K (Emerald) have 40k, 75k, and 100k qualification requirements respectively.

This would be equivalent to Lifetime Gold starting the year with ~300 SCs and Lifetime Platinum starting the year with ~600 SCs. Of course, MVP Gold 100K is much closer to 75K than Platinum One is to Platinum in terms of qualification requirements.

 

[Seat0B]

The more I think about Lifetime status with QF, the more peeved/annoyed/despondent I become.