Fly Well. New QF Covid procedures

[RooFlyer]

I remain a bit skeptical that the general public wearing P2/N95 masks in public / on aircraft is realistic, reliable or protective.

I'm certainly not going to argue with you on any of that , but perhaps you can help me. On the balance of probabilities, on what we know now (hedge, hedge ...), is the virus carried in transmissible amount, in 'ordinary' breath-out air? As opposed to sneezed droplets. If we sat next to each other on a park bench on a still day, and I had the virus and just sat there breathing normally, assume some of my breath must waft within your breathing range. Could I spread it?

Reason for the query is that, I hear the discussion about masks 'not being able to be worn properly by the public, and so are useless'. To me, a P2/N95 mask worn but not, say, with a proper seal around a beard or around the bridge of the nose, but catching all the direct exhalations , must be a damn sight better than no mask at all? Same with a surgical mask - it will catch direct emissions, but not the 'wafting breath'.

 

[justinbrett]

Both VA and QF are doing this already. On the 787 the forward J cabin is for crew only, row 10-12 are banned for anyone and passengers cannot go forward of row 20.



Interesting that the link is on the IATA website but the document has the Civil Aviation Administration of China on the document.

The flights operating now are effectively government charters, not commercial. Don’t expect this to continue when the flag goes up.

 

[jakeseven7]

Both VA and QF are doing this already. On the 787 the forward J cabin is for crew only, row 10-12 are banned for anyone and passengers cannot go forward of row 20.

duh..... As part of the underwritten network. No airline is going to do this flying on their own buck (for long)

 

[maninblack]

With the announcement of these new procedures and the Victorian Government announcement yesterday I’m surprised Qantas hasn’t loaded new flights for June 1 and onward already.

 

[Pushka]

With the announcement of these new procedures and the Victorian Government announcement yesterday I’m surprised Qantas hasn’t loaded new flights for June 1 and onward already.

To where? Travel to WA, SA, Qld and Tas is currently very problematic.

 

[jakeseven7]

To where? Travel to WA, SA, Qld and Tas is currently very problematic.

The state 'borders' will either voluntarily come down, or be squashed very soon. Their choice as to how it happens.

 

[Pushka]

The state 'borders' will either voluntarily come down, or be squashed very soon. Their choice as to how it happens.

Will Qld is sticking to September. SA - who knows.

 

[kiwitripper64]

there is so much confusion about gloves and masks and covid. A recent European study looked at the risk of infection if you were in an infected household. They came up with a figure of 20% chance. At the same time we know covid can be passed on by minimal contact such as using a contaminated salt shaker.
Deep breaths ( exercise, singing, shouting) seem to be better at passing on the active virus and there are great videos showing the spread of aerosol from coughs and sneezes.
Masks will stop that aerosol spread. Most won’t contain all the aerosol, but will dramatically reduce it, so may help reduce the spread. It’s about risk mitigation. Gloves can be a serious problem if people wearing them don’t change gloves and wash hands between contact. I am worried about crew wearing the same gloves for an entire drink or food service

 

[maninblack]

To where? Travel to WA, SA, Qld and Tas is currently very problematic.

How about between the two biggest cities Melbourne and Sydney which is still currently essentially one flight a day. Canberra, Newcastle, Coffs, Ballina. I’m including JQ as part of my thinking.

 

[p--and--t]

Gloves can be a serious problem if people wearing them don’t change gloves and wash hands between contact. I am worried about crew wearing the same gloves for an entire drink or food service

Don't think there will be much of a food & drink service for quite a while (at least domestically)

 

[Princess Fiona]

Gloves can be a serious problem if people wearing them don’t change gloves and wash hands between contact. I am worried about crew wearing the same gloves for an entire drink or food service

The gloves are to protect the crew not passengers. Fomite transmission is just as likely to take place with bare hands. I am assuming the crew do the entire food and drink service without sanitizing their hands before and after every contact with food service items between passengers.
This is the same risk to passengers as them doing this type of service wearing gloves.

 

[Mrsfefe]

I'm certainly not going to argue with you on any of that , but perhaps you can help me. On the balance of probabilities, on what we know now (hedge, hedge ...), is the virus carried in transmissible amount, in 'ordinary' breath-out air? As opposed to sneezed droplets. If we sat next to each other on a park bench on a still day, and I had the virus and just sat there breathing normally, assume some of my breath must waft within your breathing range. Could I spread it?

Reason for the query is that, I hear the discussion about masks 'not being able to be worn properly by the public, and so are useless'. To me, a P2/N95 mask worn but not, say, with a proper seal around a beard or around the bridge of the nose, but catching all the direct exhalations , must be a damn sight better than no mask at all? Same with a surgical mask - it will catch direct emissions, but not the 'wafting breath'.

The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them

Please read this link to learn about the author and background to these posts. It seems many people are breathing some relief, and I’m not sure why. An epidemic curve has a relatively predictable upslope and once the peak is reached, the back slope can also be predicted. We have robust data from...

www.erinbromage.com

An interesting read that might answer some of your questions

 

[RooFlyer]

The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them

Please read this link to learn about the author and background to these posts. It seems many people are breathing some relief, and I’m not sure why. An epidemic curve has a relatively predictable upslope and once the peak is reached, the back slope can also be predicted. We have robust data from...

www.erinbromage.com

An interesting read that might answer some of your questions

Great! Thanks! I like how its just put plainly, and he states his qualifications and limitations, and the audience he was targeting up-front.
What do out doctors think of the article?

Here's another by him:

Flying in the age of COVID-19

BTW - on the issue of poorly-fitted masks and the public, his article re-inforces my belief that a poorly-fitted mask is still much better than no mask at all. By his reasoning, it would greatly decrease the amount of virus particles reaching the atmosphere in each breath, and therefore greatly increasing the exposure time needed to catch the virus.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Great! Thanks! I like how its just put plainly, and he states his qualifications and limitations, and the audience he was targeting up-front.
What do out doctors think of the article?

Here's another by him:

Flying in the age of COVID-19

BTW - on the issue of poorly-fitted masks and the public, his article re-inforces my belief that a poorly-fitted mask is still much better than no mask at all. By his reasoning, it would greatly decrease the amount of virus particles reaching the atmosphere in each breath, and therefore greatly increasing the exposure time needed to catch the virus.

I like the articles, read both of them. Don’t entirely agree with everything (especially the P2/N95 mask use) but they are well written and researched.

 

[Simo]

As a lay person I am always conflicted on the right and wrong advice.

One of our State Police services issued a rule that all front line staff to be shaved face for better protection...

Yes I do worry that people wear the same pair of gloves for hours and deal with multiple people between changes but getting gloves is hard for people as well and don't want to waste them..

 

[wandering_fred]

Great! Thanks! I like how its just put plainly, and he states his qualifications and limitations, and the audience he was targeting up-front.
What do out doctors think of the article?
...

My MD surgeon friend in the USA thought he was a bit pessimistic...
My take was the outdoors is good to go....
Packed (or not) indoor rooms less so.
And it is still too early to fly

Or go wandering
Fred

 

[Seat0B]

This becomes more and more of a “Let’s randomly introduce silly rules to assure the public without any evidence” thing like the utterly silly “Switch off your mobile phone on airplanes or at petrol stations” or the weirdly differing airport security rules that seem to be totally inconsistent from place to place.

Just to be clear- I am not advocating for not taking this pandemic seriously, quite to the contrary. But introducing random “rules” that are not based on any (or limited or contradictory) evidence to calm people down (or conveniently safe airlines money) is not helpful.

To be quite honest (and I’m not an epidemiologist but I did do a Major in Statistics so I’d like to think that it’s an at least halfway educated guess): I fear that this thing will raise its ugly head even down here quicker than we can say Covid-19 and then it’s back to Level 4 lockdown as we called it here in NZ. And I damn sure hope that I am incorrect!

Oh yes I feel the pain with you about the crazy made up random rules. I have 2 knee replacements and you DO NOT want to get me started on inconsistent security screening processes around the world....

 

[Franky]

Oh yes I feel the pain with you about the crazy made up random rules. I have 2 knee replacements and you DO NOT want to get me started on inconsistent security screening processes around the world....

You and me both, no two airports in the world have the same procedures. Dubai is still my most memorable effort, where the Commando on the other side of the screen said to me after the alarm went off and I pointed to my knees - 'show me your scars'!

 

[p--and--t]

You and me both, no two airports in the world have the same procedures. Dubai is still my most memorable effort, where the Commando on the other side of the screen said to me after the alarm went off and I pointed to my knees - 'show me your scars'!

Good thing you didn't have a penile implant

 

[drron]

Burma had the best security with a knee replacement.Walked through,set off the alarm,walked towards the fellow holding the wand who used it to wave me through.