Flying Emirates? Start Training Now........

[Pushka]

You dont go vigilante JohnK but take your advice from the cabin crew. I agree, its nasty if people swipe your seat but if it is in the same class as you booked, well, nothing is guaranteed on that plane.

 

[mannej]

JohnK, let the crew deal with it. Simple?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I am not condoning using physical force but what would you do?

Full flight and a person with a boarding pass for 74E is sitting in your allocated seat of 40C becaused it looked better when they were boarding. Your boarding pass has 40C. Their boarding pass shows 74E. Crew refuse to get involved. Do you get off and go on next flight? Do you keep your mouth shut and sit in 74E for this long haul flight? What if you're travelling with someone? Tough luck?

I struggle to comprehend the advice. Don't be a vigilante because it's not the right thing to do but please go and sit where you don't belong because people will feel sorry for you and let you sit there? Where do you draw the line? Should I go and sit in a First Class seat and see if the crew force me out? Or is that going too far? Are we saying there is no difference between 40C and 74E?

It has happened to me a few times. Crew has managed to sort out the situation. Just as well as my anger management is poor at best of times.

As Pushka says - and has been mentioned upthread - you can't take 'the law' into your own hands.

You cannot act in a way which is threatening, intimidating, or interferes with crew or crew duties. You must also follow lawful crew member instructions. In this case, it is likely a crew member trying to secure the cabin for departure will be issuing a lawful instruction if they direct you to another seat as it directly relates to the safety and operation of the aircraft.

No one is suggesting the seat poacher is in the right, or their actions are to be condoned. But you have very few options on the plane to remedy the situation if the crew are unwilling or unable to assist you. Your only real option is to disembark, but you'd want to have pretty substantial and solid grounds before making that decision.

The time for you to seek redress will be either in-flight (perhaps the CSM can offer immediate compensation, or prepare a report for compensation at a later time), or after you land, via customer care.

Is there a difference between 40C and 74E? That depends. If you have paid extra for 40C (extra-legroom) you have a contractual right to have the money refunded. If you haven't paid for that specific seat, your rights are pretty much to be transported from A->B, in the cabin you paid for.

 

[Princess Fiona]

.

Similarly on a plane. If someone takes my seat next to my wife, I am not going to let my wife effectively be subjected to sexual harassment for the trip. It is just not going to happen.
Regards,
Renato

What on earth do you mean by that statement?
I cannot fathom at all why a passenger sitting in the wrong seat who happens to be sitting next to your wife would be sexually harassing her.
I can understand why you were upset about an uncomfortably hot bus journey and swollen ankles. Similarly I can also see why it would annoy you if someone queue jumped a long wait for the toilet or abused the check-in staff and hit your wife in the face with papers.

The hyperbole in what I have quoted above is astonishing IMO and it's the reason why you are struggling to be understood by the majority of those commenting here regarding your complaints.

 

[jb747]

Full flight and a person with a boarding pass for 74E is sitting in your allocated seat of 40C becaused it looked better when they were boarding. Your boarding pass has 40C. Their boarding pass shows 74E. Crew refuse to get involved. Do you get off and go on next flight? Do you keep your mouth shut and sit in 74E for this long haul flight? What if you're travelling with someone? Tough luck?

I struggle to comprehend the advice. Don't be a vigilante because it's not the right thing to do but please go and sit where you don't belong because people will feel sorry for you and let you sit there? Where do you draw the line? Should I go and sit in a First Class seat and see if the crew force me out? Or is that going too far? Are we saying there is no difference between 40C and 74E?

Generally the crew will sort it out. Certainly the ones I fly with would. As for sitting in First/Business...I'm almost tempted to say give it a go, as that would mean the crew have to respond. Of course it could just mean that you're offloaded outright.

If you become violent, or force the issue in any way, you will almost certainly be tossed off the aircraft. It doesn't matter that you didn't start the problem. By contrast, there's a couple of solutions that would be to your advantage, but they would not be enacted for anyone who became even slightly 'vigilante'.

And be warned, there are some airports that will lock up anyone who self disembarks. You're held until the aircraft arrives at it's next destination. Remember that the local law of the land is what is in play....it doesn't matter what you can do at home (wherever that happens to be).

 

[JohnK]

What on earth do you mean by that statement?
I cannot fathom at all why a passenger sitting in the wrong seat who happens to be sitting next to your wife would be sexually harassing her.
I can understand why you were upset about an uncomfortably hot bus journey and swollen ankles. Similarly I can also see why it would annoy you if someone queue jumped a long wait for the toilet or abused the check-in staff and hit your wife in the face with papers.

The hyperbole in what I have quoted above is astonishing IMO and it's the reason why you are struggling to be understood by the majority of those commenting here regarding your complaints.

I think I understand what has been mentioned and frankly I wouldn't be surprised but that's going off topic. You need to re-read the posts around that one to get the accusation.

 

[Pushka]

I think I understand what has been mentioned and frankly I wouldn't be surprised but that's going off topic. You need to re-read the posts around that one to get the accusation.

Then please explain to me then? How did this morph/segue into accusations of sexual harassment because a nasty took the wrong seat?

 

[Princess Fiona]

I think I understand what has been mentioned and frankly I wouldn't be surprised but that's going off topic. You need to re-read the posts around that one to get the accusation.

Sorry, no I don't need to re-read the posts. I'm well aware of the content in them. The OP states that his wife had her photograph taken in Dubai. He also states that on a flight from KL he witnessed a family attempt to take a row of bulkhead seats that they didn't have BP for. After crew intervention they were successful in securing two of those seats whilst the third seat went to the passenger assigned to it.

None of the above is remotely associated with sexual harassment IMO.

 

[JohnK]

You dont go vigilante JohnK but take your advice from the cabin crew. I agree, its nasty if people swipe your seat but if it is in the same class as you booked, well, nothing is guaranteed on that plane.

I'm not saying it's ok to go vigilante.

The issue is people doing what they feel like whenever they fell like. That's the issue. They cannot get away with moving themselves wherever they want in cabin. The crew must deal with the issue and if they do not comply then call the authorities just like you would to a vigilante.

Don't send the wrong message to them.

Funny I can just see this discussion going around in circles.

 

[TomVexille]

I'm not saying it's ok to go vigilante.

The issue is people doing what they feel like whenever they fell like. That's the issue. They cannot get away with moving themselves wherever they want in cabin. The crew must deal with the issue and if they do not comply then call the authorities just like you would to a vigilante.

Don't send the wrong message to them.

Funny I can just see this discussion going around in circles.

But the crew are the authority on the aircraft.

 

[Pushka]

Sure. But surely a golden rule is not to get angry on a plane. Sometimes impossible but usually the one getting angry over someone else's bad behaviour is the one who ends up worse off.

I remember on a Virgin flight BNE to ADL late at night there were 3 biker dudes. Heavily tattooed. Muscled. Gold chains. Leather. Two sat up front and the third in our exit row opposite us. Another pax came up to the row to claim his window seat from the biker. The biker just looked at him so he sat quickly down in the aisle seat. The crew knew what had happened but really, what can you do. But the guy who didnt make the fuss and made the crews job easier received the best attention during the flight.

The three biker dudes had no luggage and strolled straight out of the exit - and into the waiting arms of several police. . Sometimes there are higher powers at work.

 

[JohnK]

But the crew are the authority on the aircraft.

So you see this discussion is now going around in circles.

We should keep encouraging queue jumpers, seat thiefs and badly mannered people. They don't know any better and we need everyone to stick up for them?

If the crew are the authority then they need to deal with seat thieves quickly. No excuses for not dealing with them.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So you see this discussion is now going around in circles.

We should keep encouraging queue jumpers, seat thiefs and badly mannered people. They don't know any better and we need everyone to stick up for them?

If the crew are the authority then they need to deal with seat thieves quickly. No excuses for not dealing with them.

The majority of replies are saying your options in these circumstances are extremely limited. Two people are saying 'hang on, that's unfair!'

And they'd be right.

But just because it's unfair, doesn't mean they have any legal grounds on which to seek redress.

It's highly unlikely any crime has been committed in the actual act of seat poaching.

 

[incumbent]

We should keep encouraging queue jumpers, seat thiefs and badly mannered people. They don't know any better and we need everyone to stick up for them?

What's the collective noun for a bunch of straw men?

 

[JohnK]

The majority of replies are saying your options in these circumstances are extremely limited. Two people are saying 'hang on, that's unfair!'

And they'd be right.

But just because it's unfair, doesn't mean they have any legal grounds on which to seek redress.

It's highly unlikely any crime has been committed in the actual act of seat poaching.

I don't quite understand. Are you saying it is OK if someone poaches a seat before take off then we should just let that person have that seat and not worry about inconveniencing the victim?

What would you say if the victim at some point through the flight found their original seat vacant and then took a stance and sat in that seat? Is that OK? Or are you still going to call the victim a vigilante? What if the victim decided to poach someone else's seat? Is that OK? Yes I know. We will have chaotic scenes mid flight and that can't be good for anyone.

The only part that is unfair is the seat poacher has the support of the majority of the replies. Sad. It's OK for the seat poacher to poach the seat but not for the victim to do the same back without any aggression? Surely if it is fair for the seat poacher then it is for the victim to poach back? Nicely?

 

[mannej]

JohnK, it isn't those who raise the question of the seat poacher in a civil manner that we are calling a vigilante, nor are we advocating the practice of seat poaching. The OP's method of settling these issues is what is in question here, to which 99.9% would find his approach OTT

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't quite understand. Are you saying it is OK if someone poaches a seat before take off then we should just let that person have that seat and not worry about inconveniencing the victim?

What would you say if the victim at some point through the flight found their original seat vacant and then took a stance and sat in that seat? Is that OK? Or are you still going to call the victim a vigilante? What if the victim decided to poach someone else's seat? Is that OK? Yes I know. We will have chaotic scenes mid flight and that can't be good for anyone.

The only part that is unfair is the seat poacher has the support of the majority of the replies. Sad. It's OK for the seat poacher to poach the seat but not for the victim to do the same back without any aggression? Surely if it is fair for the seat poacher then it is for the victim to poach back? Nicely?

No no! No one is supporting the seat poacher! Just pointing out that however unfair the situation may be, your rights to action that are extremely limited.

The two issues have to be separated - your actual 'right' to action (none), and the seat poacher's action (up to the airline and crew to determine, at their sole discretion, how they want to deal with that).

Many factors will be at play. Does the crew want to get the flight away on time, or create a fuss, raise tempers, police get called, slot missed?

Unfortunately as you say - 'taking a stand' and re-poaching you seat back may put the spotlight back on you for creating an unnecessary incident.

 

[serfty]

Permitting such seat poaching is a failure of the crew.

It amazes me the senior flight attendant was complicent. (Although it would have been interesting had the daughter not moved.)

As to what can be done about it - very little.

 

[JohnK]

JohnK, it isn't those who raise the question of the seat poacher in a civil manner that we are calling a vigilante, nor are we advocating the practice of seat poaching. The OP's method of settling these issues is what is in question here, to which 99.9% would find his approach OTT

Apologies but I get the impression the seat poacher is supported here.

It is up to the crew to deal with the situation and the victim shouldn't be inconvenienced. If the crew fails to deal with this simple situation then I am concerned for my welfare if something serious happens.

 

[Pushka]

Seat poachers are NEVER supported on AFF JohnK.