Forum Opinion - Level above WP?

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A lot of people saying earning WP is too easy. Important to remember that VA has already recognised this and essentially made WP and SG twice as hard to get for "road warriors" travelling in Y by changing their SC earn for the discount Y fares much of their work-related travel requires (under BFOD policies). This will probably knock off a few of those "easy" WPs moving forward.
And what a silly decision that was.

Halve the SCs of someone doing 50 flights a year but hand out easy SCs to those who shop at Coles, take out credit cards or fly partner airlines. Yep. Very clear to me who matters most....
 
In truth if you fly J, it doesn't matter what ff level you are as you get all the offerings anyway.

Sorry, but that's a huge oversimplification. It would be true (to an extent) for people who only ever fly J or above, but not many people do that. I travel a lot overseas - almost always in J - and I also travel a lot domestically, but never in J, except on occasions when it's part of an international itinerary or when I get an op-up or whatever. I believe my situation is very common, especially among the subset of people who have Platinum or higher status.

Status and associated benefits is hugely important for people like me, and consequently it's important for airlines if they want my business.
 
IMHO, the reduction to 5 SCs on short flights on Getaway fares is far outweighed by the increased earn rate on Elevate fares + Family Pooling + good SC earn rate with partners + much lower qualification/retention thresholds.

But most people do just book the lowest fare. There seems to be an assumption that most FFers are J flyers, but it's a very small minority. Most are slugging away in Y - and more and more companies are stopping J entitlements. And for those who in Y are interested in status and SCs (which is actually a very small minority of those who do fly, even if it is a significant proportion of those who fly a lot) and choose to go for these higher earn fares, well then VA have just managed to find a way to extract an extra $40 or more from you each flight - which works out to at least an extra $1000 a year for your SG or $2000 for your WP if your travel is primarily domestic. It might be "easier" in number of flights, but they've also made you pay for it.

How do you work that out? If you are BFOD, you can almost forget about flying on QF codes internationally, so your international SC earn rate will be very low, or maybe even non existent. Domestically, while you are still guaranteed at least 10 SCs each way with QF, remember you need 1,400 SCs to reach Platinum (40% more than Velocity) and 1,200 to retain (50% more than Velocity), with no Family Pooling! As I said before, I very much doubt that many people are reaching Platinum solely through flying MEL-SYD in the lowest fare class. Furthermore, if you are genuinely BFOD, you won't even have the ability to choose QF or OW partners a lot of the time.

BFOD internationally is usually viewed a little differently from domestic - there is usually a band of around 10% we are allowed to work in. As long as our preference falls in that band we are allowed to use it. Most larger organisations (inc. mine) have some pretty good corporate fare deals with QF (and other airlines), from which they are chosen. Just as they let us choose between VA and QF domestically (and largely ignore TT and JQ) we are also not forced to have to use airlines like Air Asia and QF are quite competitive in this space. I can only talk on my experience, but the routes I've done in the last 6mo (2x Europe; 1x NA; 1 x Asia; 2 x CA/SA) prob had QF cheaper than the VA or other full service partner at least 1/2 the time (and QF codes on other metal much more readily available and cheaper than VA codes on other metal - VA do need to sort this out, and it also means for many routes QF fly you don't need good partner earn rates as there is a QF code).

FWIW for my flying the international SCs would have tapped out at roughly the same, but I would have ~180% of the domestic SCs at QF over VA (I'm allowed to use Elevate sometimes if I can really make a case that I have no idea when I'll be done and it's only a few dollars more), which makes the most difference as it is the bulk of my flying. With ~50 return domestics a year that's a minimum of 1000 SCs (QF) v about 600 (VA) - a little bit more as it is not all Golden Triangle.

You have said yourself that you can get both you and your wife to Platinum with Velocity despite being strictly BFOD in Y - that would be completely impossible with QF. BTW, I have also got my wife to Platinum twice, and she has never dropped below Gold since 4 years ago, yet she hardly flies at all (again we had to go out of our way to get her 8 eligible sectors both times she made Platinum). In one of those years I also got my father in law to Platinum.

I also said that I would easily get WP in QF as BFOD. Periodically I do check - you never know (VA works for me now, it may not always). I could probably almost get her gift SG with QF too. My wife flies enough to get SG on her own (or close to - and most of it is without me), and she now chooses VA for that travel (after previously being QF focused) primarily because she gets status through family pooling from me. FWIW I think VA have done well out of it in our family - we have clearly benefited too but IMO it's a mutually beneficial relationship. My extended family are now primarily VA too, because VA let us use the lounge when they are travelling as long as I accompany them into the lounge (even if I don't travel), and it's created a halo effect. I'm sure it's offering strategic value for them, even if we don't see it, otherwise they wouldn't offer it. Some goes for me, it is these 'extras' that make me prefer VA, even though it has other limitations compared to OW etc.

Yes I had explained that in a previous post. I have only flown 8 VA flights this year, all short domestic trips on Getaway/Elevate fares (2 MEL-ADL returns and 2 MEL-SYD returns), but my wife and kids were with me on 2 of those trips so I collected their SCs too. If those flights were with QF I would have earned only 80 SCs, instead of 240 SCs with Velocity.

Then that isn't really a statement on earn rate as much as it is about the validity of family pooling. I admit I benefit from it (as it allows me to gift WP to Mrs G), but I personally have no issue with it being a family benefit.

Bottom line is this is what VA have considered works for them. I've not found VA lounges any busier than QF ones (though admit both are too crowded sometimes) - I don't think it is "too easy", given the limited range of benefits (but I do agree if the beneftis increased, upping the threshold may be appropriate). If re-qualification is too easy for you - maybe you should celebrate the face you've found the VA sweet spot?
 
But most people do just book the lowest fare. There seems to be an assumption that most FFers are J flyers, but it's a very small minority. Most are slugging away in Y - and more and more companies are stopping J entitlements. ?

Yes, most people do book the lowest fare, including me, and most of my flying is in Y too. To be fair, I have wittered on quite a bit in this thread, so you may have missed my original response to you on this point. I'm certainly not saying most people fly in J. What I said was:

A lot of people saying earning WP is too easy. Important to remember that VA has already recognised this and essentially made WP and SG twice as hard to get for "road warriors" travelling in Y by changing their SC earn for the discount Y fares much of their work-related travel requires (under BFOD policies). This will probably knock off a few of those "easy" WPs moving forward.

Good point, but not sure I agree it has become twice as hard for many to get Platinum. It has only become twice as hard for people who fly exclusively on short flights (e.g. MEL-SYD) on Getaway fares. Even under the old regime, those people would have required 100 sectors/year to qualify for Platinum. I'm sure some people do/did that, but I would guess very few. On longer flights the impact is lower - a drop of 15 to 10 SCs (33%) or 20 to 15 (25%). Furthermore, the SC earn rate for the middle fare tier has gone up - and that is often the cheapest available on busy routes if you don't book way in advance, so even BFODers are likely to get those fares sometimes. Plus, VA has not (yet) done a "simpler and fairer" and slashed SC earn rate in half when travelling with partners.

I would say most Platinums travel at least some of the time on longer routes (incl international), higher fare categories and/or premium cabins, so the overall impact of the SC reduction with Getaway fares is likely to be diluted a fair bit.




I also said that I would easily get WP in QF as BFOD. .

You actually said "I'd say if you are a BFOD traveller it is now probably easier to get QF WP than VA WP". That's what I was responding to with incredulity!

If someone never takes advantage of Family Pooling, never books anything other than Getaway fares domestically, and never travels overseas, then yes they would earn more SCs if they moved 100% of their travel to QF. However:
- not many people meet all of these criteria
- anyone who does is unlikely to make Platinum with either program
- someone who is allowed to choose QF fares 100% of the time is clearly not subject to a strict BFOD policy (red e-deals can be more expensive than Elevate fares)
- as I said previously, it is not unusual for Elevate to be the cheapest VA fare available.


I could probably almost get her gift SG with QF too. .

You need 2,400 SCs to gift QF Gold. If you are in a position to earn that many QF SCs/year, then do you mind me asking why are you sticking with VA?

If re-qualification is too easy for you - maybe you should celebrate the face you've found the VA sweet spot?

I'm obviously quite happy to keep Velocity Platinum status without needing to fly much with VA/partners, but that doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculously easy, and IMHO it would be in the interests of people like you if they made VA Platinum much harder to get.
 
Instead of a new Tier just introduce what Qantus already has ..... Life time status/perks. This would keep most FF happy, especially when you go over the status target but also don't reach the next (hence no waste of SC's)
 
It's been said here a few times that there is no incentive to remain loyal to VA after achieving WP.

Wouldn't being able to use the WP benefits (however good, bad or otherwise they may actually be) be an incentive?

VA WP counts for nowt if you're flying QF.
 
I would like some type of lifetime recognition - this is the primary reason I am considering swapping to Qantas.

I do lots of flying now but later in life who knows, but what I do know is that even if I am not a frequent flyer in the future I will still pick the one that makes my life the easiest.
 
You need 2,400 SCs to gift QF Gold. If you are in a position to earn that many QF SCs/year, then do you mind me asking why are you sticking with VA?

Essentially because I've had much more negative experiences flying on QF than I have on VA, and far more positive experiences on VA than QF (and DL over AA in the US where ~30% of my travel is is also a major, major factor - for the same reasons). I'm generally happy to forego a few points or perks for better overall experience.

Coxyb76 said:
Instead of a new Tier just introduce what Qantus already has ..... Life time status/perks. This would keep most FF happy, especially when you go over the status target but also don't reach the next (hence no waste of SC's)

YES, YES, YES, YES, A THOUSAND TIME YES!! Also agree with the suggestion that Family Pooling SCs don't count for this.
 
I’ve been a Velocity member since it commenced and at first could only dream of Gold status. Needless to say I started to travel for business and soon reached this level.

Anyway as things have transpired I am a WP, as is my daughter, and we both manage to maintain this level in about 3-4 months.

This may have been raised before, but if so I couldn’t find a thread. Should Virgin consider a status level beyond Platnium and what should it look like?
 
I think a fourth tier is a terrible idea - the best and easiest way to make a higher tier have value is to reduce the value of the lower tiers!

A much better idea for incentivising continued post-WP-qualification travel would be to bring in life-time status
Threads merged.

Thanks for merging. Some interesting points made.

I will keep flying VA to accumulate points, and WP is not too shabby. At least I can shoot for companion Platnium this year.
 
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