Freedom of speech

[drron]

Ok so lets turn it around for a moment... Say a muslim footballer like Bachar Houli in the AFL posted publicly on his instagram that all infidels are going to hell. What would the reaction be from the free speech mob in that case ? Of course they would be the ones who would suddenly become outraged. See the hypocrisy?

Having free speech doesn't mean you can't be outraged and express your opinion publicly.It would be hypocrisy if they also called for his sacking and tried to implement that sacking.
In this case Folau has expressed his religious beliefs.Everyone has the right to be outraged and say so.But IMHO the line is crossed when a powerful group goes further and exert pressure for his dismissal.
It is perfectly allowable for people to express anger when someone criticises Islam and it happens all the time.They are called racists,bigots and Islamophobes.So if someone in strongly worded terms,such as has been read here,criticises Christianity then should they not expect to be criticised in such terms?

There was a more important attack on free speech yesterday-the arrest of Julian Assange.It has been revealed that the arrest was the result of an extradition request by the USA.The indictment has been made public and it is for conspiring with Chelsea Manning to commit computer intrusion.The hypocrisy is that Manning is now the darling of the left but they are calling for the blood of Assange basically because they blame him in part for Clinton's defeat.But the emails released were genuine and isn't it the right of the public to know what prominent people really think of the issues?

 

[burmans]

Seems like it will have to be in Rugby League then if they can legally rip up his contract.

Rugby League have said he wont take him due to their "inclusiveness" policy.

 

[burmans]

Geez, hate? There is belief and there is hate ....

Telling people they are going to hell for their behaviour is in my view the opposite of a loving religion, and hate is after all the opposite of love. Being Christian and having strong beliefs does not rule out having a loving and tolerant view of others, indeed I would suggest in modern religion this is a much more common view than this old testament view of religion.

 

[amaroo]

Telling people they are going to hell for their behaviour is in my view the opposite of a loving religion, and hate is after all the opposite of love. Being Christian and having strong beliefs does not rule out having a loving and tolerant view of others, indeed I would suggest in modern religion this is a much more common view than this old testament view of religion.

You'll hear this stuff being belted out every Sunday and Friday ... depending on the suburb.

 

[JohnK]

Isn't faith an example of where people are told they should believe without questioning? Hard to reconcile this statement with your many previous statements in regard to faith!

Some people believe, including atheists, have faith without questioning. Some don't blindly believe but make informed, logical, decisions.

If you don't believe God exists then you should also believe that humans cannot create life but my daughter is proof that we can create life. So if humans can create life then I'm 100% certain that God exists. I don't do random. It's not logical.

Now here's the interesting part. Not a single person in this world has any idea where we came from or where we're heading.

 

[burmans]

You'll hear this stuff being belted out every Sunday and Friday ... depending on the suburb.

Sure, I was just noting the difference between those religions who more closely align with the old testment view (an eye for a eye ...) vs the supposedly Christian view (love your fellow man). I certainly understand that many so called Christians are not greatly adherents of the principles of Christ himself in this regards.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok so lets turn it around for a moment... Say a muslim footballer like Bachar Houli in the AFL posted publicly on his instagram that all infidels are going to hell. What would the reaction be from the free speech mob in that case ? Of course they would be the ones who would suddenly become outraged. See the hypocrisy?

I think you're agreeing with me, and yes I do see the hypocrisy, moreover this Infidels going to Hell isn't new or secret, it is mainstream in Islam.

 

[joeymelb]

After reading various comments about who goes to hell. Personally, I think Hell is a great holiday destination. Think about it, weather forecast in Hell is warm to hot everyday and night. Hell is full of sexy sinners who are totally into having good times!

It will be like holiday in Bangkok/Pattaya/Bali for eternity! What's wrong with that?

Do you really want to spend time in Heaven with Mother Teresa for eternity? Or in Hell with Marilyn Monroe* or Freddie Mercury*??

* Note: Nominated those names based on the Israel Folau's Hell Visa Entry Application Form.

 

[JohnK]

Telling people they are going to hell for their behaviour is in my view the opposite of a loving religion, and hate is after all the opposite of love. Being Christian and having strong beliefs does not rule out having a loving and tolerant view of others, indeed I would suggest in modern religion this is a much more common view than this old testament view of religion.

A loving religion has some very basic concepts that need to be adhered to otherwise the religion can no longer identify as that religion and in fact is something totally different.

I don't agree that a religion needs to adapt to change. Far from it. Keeping the values that made that religion in the first place are the best features. You know what you get when you join.

And yes there are some religious people that have strong views. Marriage, adultery, divorce, abortion etc. If someone doesn't agree with these restrictions then best to head off to another religion or don't believe in anything at all.

 

[burmans]

I always thought it was not possible to contract outside the law .... me thinks Israel is going to be ok.

Could you clarify what part of this you regard as being ouside the law? Hardly unusual for employment contracts to have conduct clauses these days.

 

[dajop]

( don't agree that a religion needs to adapt to change. Far from it. Keeping the values that made that religion in the first place are the best features. You know what you get when you join.

Actually most don't know what they're getting into when they "join", effectively many people join when they are born. Of course they are free to leave, sometimes though it could mean estrangement from family, or worse leaving under the threat of death.

 

[burmans]

A loving religion has some very basic concepts that need to be adhered to otherwise the religion can no longer identify as that religion and in fact is something totally different.

I don't agree that a religion needs to adapt to change. Far from it. Keeping the values that made that religion in the first place are the best features. You know what you get when you join.

And yes there are some religious people that have strong views. Marriage, adultery, divorce, abortion etc. If someone doesn't agree with these restrictions then best to head off to another religion or don't believe in anything at all.

I don't have a problem with people who have strong views, but I do have a problem with people who pick and choose the extracts from the bible which support their views and ignore the ones that don't.

Here's a very good article with input from a number of Christian leaders who suggest Israel is being very selective in his comments. What would you say to Israel Folau?

It's hardly heretical to say much of what is pushed by "hard-line" Christians is not actually very Christian (i.e. follows the teaching of Christ himself), many theologians have been saying this for centuries.

As for religion itself not needing to change, the New Testament was written after the time of Christ so that in itself is a change.

 

[amaroo]

Could you clarify what part of this you regard as being ouside the law? Hardly unusual for employment contracts to have conduct clauses these days.

I suppose I'm saying if he wanted to challenge the legality of the contract - it's my opinion he'd do alright.

Contracts can state whatever they want, they can be signed sealed and delivered - but if a court deems it to be unlawful the contracts not worth much. Wouldn't be the first time a contract was rejected by a court.

Who knows, he might just be sick of people telling him what he's allowed to say, think, post and write. He might want to go out and end it his way. Maybe he wants to join the flock and start preaching full-time?

Many of these Polynesians are true believers and very committed. All Black Michael Jones refused to play on Sundays... that cost him 2 final games in the 91 World cup - now that's commitment!

Iceman who became an All Blacks great

 

[JohnK]

Actually most don't know what they're getting into when they "join", effectively many people join when they are born. Of course they are free to leave, sometimes though it could mean estrangement from family, or worse leaving under the threat of death.

Good point but I think that's more the radical thinkers that impose those sorts of restrictions on family.

My daughter was baptised Greek Orthodox. We're not strict followers in the sense but my daughter goes to communion 2-3 times a year. She will more than likely go to a Greek Orthodox school where I hope she picks up something from the Greek culture.

My wife was born a Buddhist but has also been baptised a Christian. We're both fairly tolerant of others. My daughter can choose whatever religion, or none at all, when she is old enough to understand.

 

[amaroo]

Ok so lets turn it around for a moment... Say a muslim footballer like Bachar Houli in the AFL posted publicly on his instagram that all infidels are going to hell. What would the reaction be from the free speech mob in that case ? Of course they would be the ones who would suddenly become outraged. See the hypocrisy?

You don't have to make something up, you can quote an ex-league player and boxer - fits your bill perfectly. With the exception that no one threaten to take his livelihood away or censor his thoughts, views, writing, speech. In fact the more outrageous the statement - the more the media lapped it up, and more the money flowed.

He covered everything from 9/11, white people, Christians, gays, anthem, flag, you name it..... all with full throttle endorsement from the media and sports bodies.

What's the difference between the two - only one of them has approached the subject from a Christian point of view.

 

[amaroo]

Could you clarify what part of this you regard as being ouside the law? Hardly unusual for employment contracts to have conduct clauses these days.

Long way to go with this one.....

Folau has grounds for legal claim against religious discrimination, say experts

Wallabies star will have an arguable legal defence under national employment law if Rugby Australia terminates his contract.

www.smh.com.au

Wallabies star Israel Folau will have a legal defence on the grounds of alleged religious discrimination under national employment law if Rugby Australia terminates his contract.

 

[Danger]

Why is this a thread in a forum about flying and travel?

 

[dajop]

Why is this a thread in a forum about flying and travel?

Members have a diverse range of interests beyond just flying and travel. Which is what the playground is for. Worth noting the rules about threads of a political nature: Political Threads in the Playground

That aside ;

1) Theres a whole sub forum of AFF that is dedicated to discussing wine that is really only tangential to flying and travel.
2) The largest Australian airline does have certain political causes that it attempts to influence, thus is reasonable to discuss such matters in a flying forum.

 

[serfty]

Why is this a thread in a forum about flying and travel?

It is in "The Playground" - a home for forum off topic threads.

 

[Danger]

Members have a diverse range of interests beyond just flying and travel. Which is what the playground is for. Worth noting the rules about threads of a political nature: Political Threads in the Playground

That aside ;

1) Theres a whole sub forum of AFF that is dedicated to discussing wine that is really only tangential to flying and travel.
2) The largest Australian airline does have certain political causes that it attempts to influence, thus is reasonable to discuss such matters in a flying forum.

Presumably there are forums for people to discuss things that are not flying and travel related. This is the Australian Frequent Flyer Forum, not the Australian Forum or the Australian Interests Forum or whatever.

It is in "The Playground" - a home for forum off topic threads.

Well, in the spirit of this thread, in my opinion the growth of off topic threads (and, indeed, off topic posts that don't at all relate to flying and travel) are to AFF's detriment. Two recent and popular threads are a case in point where the convivial spirit of AFF was thrown out the window, members who otherwise get along reduced to aggressive and sometimes attacking posts that made AFF resemble the negativeness that permeates almost every FlyerTalk thread.

The more the site becomes diluted and the more these off topic threads arise, the less useful and less amicable I believe it becomes.