Fully Inflexible - A Rort?

[Christoo]

So... This is one of those blow off steam type messages, once I can forgive, twice even, but not three times in a row.

My job, like many means my meetings are pretty open ended, I often fly Standard on my way to wherever and Fully Flexible return so I can book a later flight then get to the airport and move forward if I am early.
Last three times there is a sea of red on the status board with cancellations where there have been no weather constraints.
Seems they are just cancelling lightly loaded flights (Complete supposition on my behalf)
If that is the case, what is the value in Fully Flexible? It also leads to the lounges becomes zoos full of delayed, inebriated frustrated people (I mean more than normal)

Has anyone else found this ramping up lately?

 

[Hvr]

What route do you find this to be the worst?

 

[Christoo]

What route do you find this to be the worst?

Melbourne - Sydney
Melbourne - Adelaide

I had 4.5 hrs at Sydney airport where I couldn't get an earlier flight some weeks ago around peak time.
What't that, approximate 9 schedule flights?

 

[Carrots]

Interesting re Adelaide given the frequency in and out of here these days is fairly dismal.

 

[Altair]

Well are the flights that you do take are they full? It seems to me that there are hardly any spare seats in Economy on any flights I have been on and the only time I have been able to get an earlier flight is when I am in Business and only during the 12-3 time block.

 

[Christoo]

Well are the flights that you do take are they full? It seems to me that there are hardly any spare seats in Economy on any flights I have been on and the only time I have been able to get an earlier flight is when I am in Business and only during the 12-3 time block.

The point is the number of flights they cancel in non-peak times increasing the loading on the other flights.
Perhaps they should refund the fare difference of the Fully Flexible ticket if they are going to ensure there are no seats available

 

[TheInsider]

If you are talking about the past few day re flights, then there have been hundreds of cancellations due to SYD and MEL weather and single runway operations in both ports.
You are very misinformed if you think they cancel flights on the day of departure just due to loads.

 

[TheInsider]

If that is the case, what is the value in Fully Flexible? It also leads to the lounges becomes zoos full of delayed, inebriated frustrated people (I mean more than normal)

Also just pointing out, it's 'Flexible', not 'Fully Flexible'.

 

[offshore171]

The recent sea of red on the boards has been legit. There’s been quite a few occasions in the last month or two when Sydney and/or Melbourne have been impacted by high winds.

Syd goes to single (East west) runway operations and this has flow on effects throughout.

 

[RichardMEL]

As you say you're just assuming flights are being cancelled purely for revenue reasons.

While I think many of us know of instances where this was probably quite likely - I find these cxls are done more ahead of time these days rather than day of operation plus it ignores the need, often, to get aircraft and crew to those destinations to operate other sectors.

QF has clearly moved to a model to try and optimise the schedules and using technology to move pax from lightly booked flights ahead of time SMS offers being sent to pax to move, etc)... I honestly doubt on the actual day of operation many, if any, sectors are being cancelled due to loads.. but like you I have no information either way to back that up.

I would also note that QF do seem to have tightened up things a bit on day of departure in terms of changes, or "fly forward" - it's a defined benefit for P1, which implies it's not for others - though obviously agents have their discretion in various cases and situations - and during IRROPS all that goes out the window anyway

 

[Quickstatus]

Also just pointing out, it's 'Flexible', not 'Fully Flexible'.

Which airline does "Fully Flexible" fares?

Its not even "Flexible" in the usual meaning
On QF it is just "Flex" and on VA its "Freedom" - just marketing names given to a certain fare class. They are not fully flexible in the sense that you cant change from flight A to flight B at anytime you like without any additional cost.

Airlines will necessarily ensure flights are as full as possible - sometimes by cancelling flights with light loadings, and often by selling more tickets than there are seats.
The expectation that a fully flexible fare entitles the passenger change to any other flight on the same day is silly and airlines will not do is to keep empty seats in case Flex passengers might want to move a different flight.

It might be better to book 2 flights at the discount price. One at the initial time and one later in case circumstances change. Fly one and lose the other fare. Might be better financially than a Flex fare??

 

[Melburnian1]

..You are very misinformed if you think they cancel flights on the day of departure just due to loads.

Why is he poorly informed?

Recently, domestic air travel has been dropping 3.3 per cent when comparing a month in 2019 with the same in 2018 on the MEL - SYD - MEL route, by far the busiest.

Fewer posteriors on seats.

If flights sell poorly, to save c.$20,000 on a return trip, some will see passengers "consolidated" onto others.

The cancellation percentages are shocking, especially with QF, as I've noted elsewhere in discussion on the BITRE monthly reports.

Sub-par QF "service", the reverse of high speed rail routes internationally.

 

[Hvr]

If flights sell poor;ly, of course to save c.$20,000 on a return trip, some will see passengers "consolidated" onto others.

Would flights really be cancelled on the day due to loads? The actual plane still has to be somewhere and the crew still has to be paid. Surely the airport plans around having vacant spaces to park other planes and so on.

With cabin crew sometimes working on different routes and splitting up at some locations the possibilities for delaying other flights would be very high.

 

[Quickstatus]

Would flights really be cancelled on the day due to loads? The actual plane still has to be somewhere and the crew still has to be paid. Surely the airport plans around having vacant spaces to park other planes and so on.

With cabin crew sometimes working on different routes and splitting up at some locations the possibilities for delaying other flights would be very high.

An airline passenger will never know the true reason, as the usual excuse will be something like "this flight is cancelled for operational reasons"

 

[Altair]

The expectation that a fully flexible fare entitles the passenger change to any other flight on the same day is silly and airlines will not do is to keep empty seats in case Flex passengers might want to move a different flight.

Air New Zealand domestic has flexitime fares where you can change to any flight on the day of travel as long as there is a seat available. It is on $40 extra over the cheapest fare of the original flight you purchased and can actually be cheaper than buying a seat only fare on a busier flight. It is almost completely useless on regional flights where the frequency is 5 or fewer flights a day.

 

[Quickstatus]

Air New Zealand domestic has flexitime fares where you can change to any flight on the day of travel as long as there is a seat available. It is on $40 extra over the cheapest fare of the original flight you purchased and can actually be cheaper than buying a seat only fare on a busier flight. It is almost completely useless on regional flights where the frequency is 5 or fewer flights a day.

Yes flexitime ANZ is the closest to a Fully flexible fare , though it is non refundable which makes it cheaper
The catch is - as long as a seat is available which is why it costs $50 to change the flight the day prior but free the day of. The original post here is that the airline in question has flights which are more often than not fully loaded which makes any ability to change a moot point.

Flexitime is really a marketing tool to sell the tickets at a slightly price. Attempts to use it to change to another more expensive and therefore busier flight is likely to be difficult.

 

[Altair]

Yes flexitime ANZ is the closest to a Fully flexible fare , though it is non refundable which makes it cheaper
The catch is - as long as a seat is available which is why it costs $50 to change the flight the day prior but free the day of. The original post here is that the airline in question has flights which are more often than not fully loaded which makes any ability to change a moot point.

Flexitime is really a marketing tool to sell the tickets at a slightly price. Attempts to use it to change to another more expensive and therefore busier flight is likely to be difficult.

I know that the OP was complaining about not changing flights. I even mentioned that IME QF flights that I have taken seem near 100% in Y but not necessarily in J when I have been able to change to earlier flights. Would an airline change someone on a flexible ticket to a flight that has not seats available? I doubt that in Australia, although in the US where overselling is the norm I guess that could put people on standby.
I agree the flextime strategy of buying on a cheap flight and changing it to a more expensive flight is a risk. I have successfully done it on trunk flights but only travelling by myself and would never try it on regional flights as they are normally full flights IME.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF are YM these flights to within an inch of their lives - specially on busy triangle routes.. plus the lack of 330's (in the main) now mean those 737's are often packed to the gills.. specially around peak times

 

[**TBA**]

If flights sell poorly, to save c.$20,000 on a return trip, some will see passengers "consolidated" onto others.

As I said in your other thread - flight cancellations due to light loading happen weeks / months out from departure. Close in there is little to no cost saving.

Can we please stop this myth about Qantas cancelling flights on the day of departure because of loads. It is not accurate I promise

 

[Quickstatus]

So in answer to the original post, Flex tickets have less value on the very busy high load flights.

Is it a rort?. Well the airline is always trying to sell a seat at a higher price. Calling it a Flex, and being helped along by passengers having the expectation that it is fully flexible helps in that endeavour.