General Coronavirus chit chat thread - non-travel specific

[juddles]

......

Also the CMO previously saying the most important thing you can do to protect yourself is to regularly wash your hands for 20 seconds. Although I do note the latest emphasis is on social distancing to reduce infection rates.
...

history will be a harsh judge on the CMO, who is probably a great guy but not really a specialist for the unexpected COVID thing. i feel that in later times it will be the thing of ridicule that we wasted many weeks talking about washing hands yet social interaction was not yet seen as the driving force behind any contagious epidemic.

 

[Flying mermaid]

The concept of droplets is that they are airborne - driven by sneezes and coughs etc.

I understand that these droplets can linger on surfaces, but the vast majority of transmission is when these "droplets" are directly inhaled - that is why social distancing is so important.

Just asked Dr FM for an opinion. She is currently working in London and is pretty much in the heart of all this. She says

“no it is not considered airborne

it’s transmitted via droplets

if someone coughs, talks sneezes near you, you can breathe in the droplets if you are too close hence social distancing. Certain procedures can aerosol secretions.

infected droplets can land on things which is why washing hands are so important. “

if it was airborne you would be infected at much greater distances.

edit (I shouldn’t have asked - I am still getting info,)

Because it is not airborne masks are of minimal benefit unless you actually have the virus or a health professional who is more at risk because of aerosol secretions.

measles is airborne, so much more contagious. It literally can hang in the air for awhile after you are gone.

because it is a new virus there is still a lot to learn.

 

[amaroo]

The concept of droplets is that they are airborne - driven by sneezes and coughs etc.

I understand that these droplets can linger on surfaces, but the vast majority of transmission is when these "droplets" are directly inhaled - that is why social distancing is so important.

I think the message has been dumbed down due to the age bracket that isn't complying.

 

[juddles]

Just asked Dr FM for an opinion. She is currently working in London and is pretty much in the heart of all this. She says

“no it is not considered airborne

it’s transmitted via droplets

if someone coughs, talks sneezes near you, you can breathe in the droplets if you are too close hence social distancing. Certain procedures can aerosol secretions.

infected droplets can land on things which is why washing hands are so important. “

if it was airborne you would be infected at much greater distances.

OMG!! is this the perfect example of conflicting messages???

"It is not considered airborne" but it is "transmitted via droplets".

"Doctors" who have no idea should learn to stop making comments.....

 

[Flying mermaid]

OMG!! is this the perfect example of conflicting messages???

"It is not considered airborne" but it is "transmitted via droplets
"Doctors" who have no idea should learn to stop making comments.....

Seems clear to me. If it is airborne it can hang around for many hours infecting people and at a greater distance.

if it is infected droplets, it has to be immediately breathed in otherwise the droplets fall to the ground and can’t be breathed in.

far from having no idea, she is working as a medical specialist in a major London hospital in the middle of this crisis.

I am grateful to her for her very clear response and I think there is someone else who has no idea.

 

[amaroo]

history will be a harsh judge on the CMO, who is probably a great guy but not really a specialist for the unexpected COVID thing. i feel that in later times it will be the thing of ridicule that we wasted many weeks talking about washing hands yet social interaction was not yet seen as the driving force behind any contagious epidemic.

Sorry, that is just a rubbish post. Remember you started this journey posting that governments were overreacting. It was nothing but the flu...

 

[juddles]

Sorry, that is just a rubbish post. Remember you started this journey posting that governments were overreacting. It was nothing but the flu...

This journey started with what the Chinese shared. And my posts at that time were obviously made using the knowledge they chose to share. Time has shown them to be false.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

OMG!! is this the perfect example of conflicting messages???

"It is not considered airborne" but it is "transmitted via droplets".

"Doctors" who have no idea should learn to stop making comments.....

*Really* getting embarrassing now.

I wonder why people often distinguish between airborne, droplet, and contact?

What are Transmission-Based Precautions? | infectionpreventionandyou.org

There are three different types of transmission precautions:

1. Contact Precautions—used for infections, diseases, or germs that are spread by touching the patient or items in the room (examples: MRSA, VRE, diarrheal illnesses, open wounds, RSV).
2. Droplet Precautions—used for diseases or germs that are spread in tiny droplets caused by coughing and sneezing (examples: pneumonia, influenza, whooping cough, bacterial meningitis).
3. Airborne Precautions—used for diseases or very small germs that are spread through the air from one person to another (examples: tuberculosis, measles, chickenpox).

 

[juddles]

Seems clear to me. If it is airborne it can hang around for many hours infecting people and at a greater distance.

if it is infected droplets, it has to be immediately breathed in otherwise the droplets fall to the ground and can’t be breathed in.

far from having no idea, she is working as a medical specialist in a major London hospital in the middle of this crisis.

I am grateful to her for her very clear response and I think there is someone else who has no idea.

So to clarify, what is your understanding? That it it most likely to transmit through the air or via surfaces??

 

[MEL_Traveller]

OMG!! is this the perfect example of conflicting messages???

"It is not considered airborne" but it is "transmitted via droplets".

Airborne in this medical context = aerosol.

That means that the virus is so tiny and light that it can float in the air for hours at a time. If you then come into contact with the air and breathe it, you will be infected.

The virus attaching to droplets means it is not light or tiny and it falls to the ground or other surface and it does so fairly quickly.

We keep the social distance so that the droplets fall before they reach us and we breath them in.

We wash our hands so that the droplets that have hit the surface and transferred to us get killed and removed before we touch our faces and get infected.

 

[juddles]

*Really* getting embarrassing now.

I wonder why people often distinguish between airborne, droplet, and contact?

Why are you embarrassed? We all forgive you your posts in the spirit that is AFF

 

[amaroo]

This journey started with what the Chinese shared. And my posts at that time were obviously made using the knowledge they chose to share. Time has shown them to be false.

So you've gone from the authorities are overreacting .... > .... to the authorities aren't doing enough.

And now you're telling doctors what to say

Can you see the pattern here?

 

[Flying mermaid]

So to clarify, what is your understanding? That it it most likely to transmit through the air or via surfaces??

if you are practising social distancing then surfaces are much more likely to infect you - hence the emphasis for months about hand washing.....

 

[CaptJCool]

The transmission reminds me of smoking

Gets blown in your face
Or you see it drift in the air some distance
Or it dissipates and you can smell it

But in this case, this virus is is completely invisible and doesn’t smell

 

[amaroo]

if you are practising social distancing then surfaces are much more likely to infect you - hence the emphasis for months about hand washing.....

Can you believe it still hasn't sunk in.... My god, what a difficult job our national cabinet has!

 

[juddles]

...

And now you're telling doctors what to say
...

No, am not trying to tell the doctors what to say. I just would love the "doctors" to hold a central message. And I recognize that the experience of different doctors is the same - different. I have no belief that my local GP would be an expert in a "one in a hundred" years epidemic.

What I would really like is that "doctors" forget their status quo, and actually see what is happening across the globe. The carnage that is occurring in the USA and Spain and Italy.

What I want to see is that we as a nation get serious. And in small steps we are.

 

[CaptJCool]

There’s still sadly people who don’t get it..

From the ABC



This is what happened in Italy (parent to child to grandparent who was babysitting for parents while parents worked and children weren’t at school). And the mortality rates over 80 are fierce...


I’m astounded at the idea a short term solution of babysitting would “see” the grands perish.
The simple reason is what would these people be doing if said grandparents were gray Nomads or members of AFF who are away for weeks or months at a time. I really don’t think it’s that tough to “not see your grandkids” for a few weeks if you weren’t going to be seeing them because you were in normal circumatances going to be away travelling or like my parents living in a different state and only seeing em 4 times a year for a couple of weeks....

 

[amaroo]

No, am not trying to tell the doctors what to say.

Really!

"Doctors" who have no idea should learn to stop making comments.....

 

[juddles]

Really!

"Doctors" who have no idea should learn to stop making comments.....

Exactly. Why is there no clear message? I think it is because half the doctors are thinking clearly, whilst the other half have their opinions contaminated by economics

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just asked Dr FM for an opinion. She is currently working in London and is pretty much in the heart of all this. She says

“no it is not considered airborne

it’s transmitted via droplets

if someone coughs, talks sneezes near you, you can breathe in the droplets if you are too close hence social distancing. Certain procedures can aerosol secretions.

infected droplets can land on things which is why washing hands are so important. “

if it was airborne you would be infected at much greater distances.

edit (I shouldn’t have asked - I am still getting info,)

Because it is not airborne masks are of minimal benefit unless you actually have the virus or a health professional who is more at risk because of aerosol secretions.

measles is airborne, so much more contagious. It literally can hang in the air for awhile after you are gone.

because it is a new virus there is still a lot to learn.

For the general public yes what you say is true. No aerosol transmission (airborne). Droplet transmission occurs when a person is in in close contact (within 1 m) with someone who has respiratory symptoms. So 1.5m rule to provide a safety margin. Plus hand-washing etc to prevent transmission from hands touching those droplets and then touching ones moth etc.

However for medical staff treating CV 19 patients some procedures such as intubation are thought to create aerosols and so special precautions need to be followed, both for the staff treating the patient and in the type of room that the patient is in when those procedures are done.

This is also why relatives of patients who have undergone these processes are not allowed to be in the same room as them including if they die.

You can read more here:

Modes of transmission of virus causing COVID-19: implications for IPC precaution recommendations

Scientific brief

www.who.int