General Coronavirus chit chat thread - non-travel specific

[get me outta here]

So, as I read it, telling your app that you are CV positive is voluntary? If so, that seems like a gigantic 'hole'.

If there is not more explanation very soon on what this app is about, why and how, more community scepticism will be seen. I hope it is not another premature announcement of something not actually ironed out and ready with a community full explanation. Even the IPA says it app is not a good idea, and that's really saying something.

MPs refuse to download official COVID-19 app and demand privacy guarantees

The government wants to convince Australians to voluntarily download the app, seeking to assuage data privacy concerns.

www.smh.com.au

We will be downloading - it’s no big deal and you can delete it and the data afterwards. There is no geolocation involved. Anything that can help keep a lock on community transmission and get us all out if this nightmare and allow those without jobs to start working again, is worth it.

 

[Pushka]

So, as I read it, telling your app that you are CV positive is voluntary? If so, that seems like a gigantic 'hole'.

If there is not more explanation very soon on what this app is about, why and how, more community scepticism will be seen. I hope it is not another premature announcement of something not actually ironed out and ready with a community full explanation. Even the IPA says it app is not a good idea, and that's really saying something.

MPs refuse to download official COVID-19 app and demand privacy guarantees

The government wants to convince Australians to voluntarily download the app, seeking to assuage data privacy concerns.

www.smh.com.au

The opposition is supporting it.

 

[p--and--t]

So, as I read it, telling your app that you are CV positive is voluntary? If so, that seems like a gigantic 'hole'.

If there is not more explanation very soon on what this app is about, why and how, more community scepticism will be seen. I hope it is not another premature announcement of something not actually ironed out and ready with a community full explanation. Even the IPA says it app is not a good idea, and that's really saying something.

MPs refuse to download official COVID-19 app and demand privacy guarantees

The government wants to convince Australians to voluntarily download the app, seeking to assuage data privacy concerns.

www.smh.com.au

Barnaby seems almost paranoid about it and "keeps his curtains closed", is there something he doesn't want to get out in public domain.

Oh that's right he got burnt with some of his previous secrets that got out

 

[RooFlyer]

So, as I read it, telling your app that you are CV positive is voluntary? If so, that seems like a gigantic 'hole'.

Thats not how it works - I agree there will need to be a hellava education on this. Even the ABC's Coronacast called it a 'tracking app' today.

You don't interact with the app at all. It goes along with you, and when it detects that you have been in 'close contact' with someone else (with the app on) for 15 mins (I think) , both party's phones record the phone ID of the other (no names, no addresses, no locations) on the respective phones. It uses the strength of the bluetooth signal to determine distance (for instance, someone 10m away or above/below you in an appt would not be counted as the signal would be degraded ) - not perfect, I think everyone agrees. When either party is diagnosed with the virus (in the usual way), the diagnosed person's phone is then interrogated to find out whose phone it had 'pinged'. Those people are then identified, via the phone IDs and contacted. Any 'pinged' info I think is auto-deleted off the phone after X weeks.

The app is open source - so anyone can go into it and see what it actually does.

Not everyone will be satisfied, and that's expected. I just hope that no-one who uses Google etc will defy its use because of 'tracking' or privacy. I could say the same thing about Facebook etc, but I don't know how they work re privacy.

As i said above, Barnaby Joyce's attitude should satisfy many sceptics.

 

[get me outta here]

Yes there is insufficient information and explanation. So, how or who is loading the information onto the app that you have tested positive? It relies on people having the app on via Bluetooth. It’s if you get 1.5 m close to someone who has the virus even though we are required to stay that distance apart. And apparently 15 minutes seems to be some magic number that I don’t know where that comes from, even though we are in self isolation.
I do appreciate that this could be of use after the distancing stops and after we are no longer in self isolation.

Thats not how it works - I agree there will need to be a hellava education on this. Even the ABC's Coronacast called it a 'tracking app' today.

You don't interact with the app at all. It goes along with you, and when it detects that you have been in 'close contact' with someone else (with the app on) for 15 mins (I think) , both party's phones record the phone ID of the other (no names, no addresses, no locations) on the respective phones. It uses the strength of the bluetooth signal to determine distance (for instance, someone 10m away or above/below you in an appt would not be counted as the signal would be degraded ) - not perfect, I think everyone agrees. When either party is diagnosed with the virus (in the usual way), the diagnosed person's phone is then interrogated to find out whose phone it had 'pinged'. Those people are then identified, via the phone IDs and contacted. Any 'pinged' info I think is auto-deleted off the phone after X weeks.

The app is open source - so anyone can go into it and see what it actually does.

Not everyone will be satisfied, and that's expected. I just hope that no-one who uses Google etc will defy its use because of 'tracking' or privacy. I could say the same thing about Facebook etc, but I don't know how they work re privacy.

As i said above, Barnaby Joyce's attitude should satisfy many sceptics.

 

[drron]

Well I am not convinced this is going to work.The USA is also thinking about it.

How China, Singapore, Taiwan, and other countries have been using technology to battle Covid-19

The US is rolling out digital contact tracing. How has it been working in other countries?

www.vox.com

But the idea hasn't set the world on fire in Singapore.Uptake of the app running at less than 20% uptake.If that is the best Singapore can do I don't like the PM's chances of getting 40% of Australians to sign up.

There are many reasons why covid-19 contact-tracing apps may not work

Many countries are hoping to use contact-tracing apps to leave lockdown and suppress further coronavirus outbreaks, but the use of such technology has many issues

www.newscientist.com

Tech isn't solution to COVID-19, says Singapore director of contact tracing app

Contact tracing using mobile apps has shortcomings in life or death situations, the government official says.

www.cnet.com

Australia’s COVID-19 contact tracing app must not be pseudo-voluntary

newsroom.unsw.edu.au

 

[get me outta here]

Some good references. Could not open the New Scientist, , but the UNSW article was good.

Well I am not convinced this is going to work.The USA is also thinking about it.

How China, Singapore, Taiwan, and other countries have been using technology to battle Covid-19

The US is rolling out digital contact tracing. How has it been working in other countries?

www.vox.com

But the idea hasn't set the world on fire in Singapore.Uptake of the app running at less than 20% uptake.If that is the best Singapore can do I don't like the PM's chances of getting 40% of Australians to sign up.

There are many reasons why covid-19 contact-tracing apps may not work

Many countries are hoping to use contact-tracing apps to leave lockdown and suppress further coronavirus outbreaks, but the use of such technology has many issues

www.newscientist.com

Tech isn't solution to COVID-19, says Singapore director of contact tracing app

Contact tracing using mobile apps has shortcomings in life or death situations, the government official says.

www.cnet.com

Australia’s COVID-19 contact tracing app must not be pseudo-voluntary

newsroom.unsw.edu.au

 

[Flying mermaid]

So, as I read it, telling your app that you are CV positive is voluntary? If so, that seems like a gigantic 'hole'.

If there is not more explanation very soon on what this app is about, why and how, more community scepticism will be seen. I hope it is not another premature announcement of something not actually ironed out and ready with a community full explanation. Even the IPA says it app is not a good idea, and that's really saying something.

MPs refuse to download official COVID-19 app and demand privacy guarantees

The government wants to convince Australians to voluntarily download the app, seeking to assuage data privacy concerns.

www.smh.com.au

That fact that Barnaby is refusing to download it is enough to make me think it is a good thing

I think the govt/medical people are falling over themselves to say everything is voluntary to assuage people’s fears. However it will enable much quicker contact tracing and can help us to prevent any “second wave” from getting out of control.

As I said if it will help to lift restrictions and get people back in jobs I am for it. The amount of stress that is out there for individuals and small business must be huge - anything practical I can do to help I will.

 

[RooFlyer]

Not picking on you, but hopefully to clarify things (I listened to a detailed explanation about the app on radio yesterday)

So, how or who is loading the information onto the app that you have tested positive?

As I said, that isn't loaded onto the app. You test positive by a regular test. Then your phone is taken and interrogated for the phone IDs of people it has 'pinged'.

It’s if you get 1.5 m close to someone who has the virus even though we are required to stay that distance apart.

Yet we know that the 1.5m isn't observed - either accidentally or deliberately, hence community transmission. I agree that 1.5 m seems a bit arbitrary - its the estimated distance that transmissive droplets can go (or most, or a contactable quantity. I'm sure drron will give 5 links as to why this is wrong). I actually had this explained to me by my GP in January during my pre-travel consultation (unrelated to COVID).

I do appreciate that this could be of use after the distancing stops and after we are no longer in self isolation.

Simply delete the app off your phone. As I said, its open source, so those defending 'privacy' can go into the guts of the app and 'blow the whistle' on any nasties in it.

But the idea hasn't set the world on fire in Singapore.Uptake of the app running at less than 20% uptake.If that is the best Singapore can do I don't like the PM's chances of getting 40% of Australians to sign up.

Sure, easy to be a sceptic, or dismissive.

 

[Pushka]

Yes there is insufficient information and explanation. So, how or who is loading the information onto the app that you have tested positive? It relies on people having the app on via Bluetooth. It’s if you get 1.5 m close to someone who has the virus even though we are required to stay that distance apart. And apparently 15 minutes seems to be some magic number that I don’t know where that comes from, even though we are in self isolation.
I do appreciate that this could be of use after the distancing stops and after we are no longer in self isolation.

If I have tested positive for Covid or someone close to me has tested positive I'm not going to give a rats about any of the privacy issues. 15 minutes I understand has been recognised in the medical areas as being the likely length of time for exposure to create issues. It's not random. And when it's over? Click that tiny x and delete.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Well I am not convinced this is going to work.The USA is also thinking about it.

How China, Singapore, Taiwan, and other countries have been using technology to battle Covid-19

The US is rolling out digital contact tracing. How has it been working in other countries?

www.vox.com

But the idea hasn't set the world on fire in Singapore.Uptake of the app running at less than 20% uptake.If that is the best Singapore can do I don't like the PM's chances of getting 40% of Australians to sign up.

There are many reasons why covid-19 contact-tracing apps may not work

Many countries are hoping to use contact-tracing apps to leave lockdown and suppress further coronavirus outbreaks, but the use of such technology has many issues

www.newscientist.com

Tech isn't solution to COVID-19, says Singapore director of contact tracing app

Contact tracing using mobile apps has shortcomings in life or death situations, the government official says.

www.cnet.com

Australia’s COVID-19 contact tracing app must not be pseudo-voluntary

newsroom.unsw.edu.au

I listened to the Deputy Medical Officer today and he was very clear that the tech would not replace the human contact tracing that has been happening very successfully in Australia for the last few months - it would be a helpful extra. Can’t see any reason not to do it.

 

[get me outta here]

So, still wonder how does the app know you are positive - it seems to be that that loading that vital piece of information is voluntary - is that correct? That’s one of the things that could be explained.

15 minutes to be close to someone I know it’s been said all along - but that could be explained. I don’t mean to nitpick but I don’t just accept things because a lot of people say it. If I stand next to someone for 15 seconds and they are positive and they sneeze all over me it will not show up.

I need to know that there’s a proper thought out reliable reason for things, and there are just as many so-called experts questioning this app. my question is about the usefulness of it. They have already said they are going to continue to do manual tracing anyway.


.

If I have tested positive for Covid or someone close to me has tested positive I'm not going to give a rats about any of the privacy issues. 15 minutes I understand has been recognised in the medical areas as being the likely length of time for exposure to create issues. It's not random. And when it's over? Click that tiny x and delete.

 

[RooFlyer]

So, still wonder how does the app know you are positive - it seems to be that that loading that vital piece of information is voluntary - is that correct? That’s one of the things that could be explained.

Hmmm ... you are of course at liberty to ignore or disbelieve what I have twice posted above, but if you aren't going to accept what's posted here, perhaps you need another source?

 

[get me outta here]

Did I miss the answer on how the app knows I’m positive? Because I don’t understand.

Hmmm ... you are of course at liberty to ignore or disbelieve what I have twice posted above, but if you aren't going to accept what's posted here, perhaps you need another source?

 

[samh004]

So, still wonder how does the app know you are positive - it seems to be that that loading that vital piece of information is voluntary - is that correct? That’s one of the things that could be explained.

I believe it's voluntary in the sense that when you test positive you tell the app you have tested positive, but there is some sort of verification process that happens by someone authorised to confirm when you enter a positive reading that it is accurate, this is so the data isn't skewed by idiots falsely reporting they are positive. For example, when you're informed you're positive you meet a medical practitioner who is able to type a code into your phone, so you correctly display as positive.

Google and Apple were creating a similar app, and they created this info sheet that I found useful, perhaps it will be useful for you too. Obviously, their app may work differently. But similar principle.

 

[p--and--t]

I am more amenable to downloading a separate app approved by the AU government with some supervision by senate committees and the oppositions questions that is optional and does not use GPS that will not send info unless I agree to it and that I can delete at any time I like.

The Google/Apple solution is currently proposed (as recently reported - how accurate who knows) to be encoded directly into the operating system, is not optional, cannot be deleted, will send whatever information the company decides to US servers, have no real supervision, and can be automatically and surreptitiously "updated" as many times as they like with new features and intrusions without your permission and zero you can do about it other than decide not to have a mobile phone at all. Little difference to what China has already (or working towards) with their own citizens.

 

[serfty]

The app never 'knows' you are positive.

If you are found to have COVID-19 and have the app, then only then would the app contact history be accessed to determine who you had been near (and who also were with the app).

I'll be using it.

 

[VPS]

Boss is asking if I want to return to the office 1 or 2 days per week at this stage.

Told him I thought we were staying home until end of May. What are your thoughts?

If it was me I'd be wanting to stay home a bit longer (I work from home anyway). I've already had friends asking me to come up to dinner (it's only a couple and one of me but he's been going to a mates place with another guy and how do I know his two mates have been careful) and I've said no. I would want to see no new infections for a couple of weeks before I was comfortable with going into an office. Hang in there

 

[RooFlyer]

I believe it's voluntary in the sense that when you test positive you tell the app you have tested positive

That's not how it was explained when I heard the detailed explanation the other day and in fact there was a question about that, and it was specifically discounted .... but maybe they didn't give the correct story. I can't see any point in me 'telling' an app that I've been diagnosed as positive by a pathology test (as usual), and needing that to happen would be a weakness as @get me outta here identified above. The app can't do anything with that information - it doesn't know how to contact my 'close contacts' because all it knows about them is the ID of their phone. People need to extract the phone ID info from my phone, then match a name etc with the phone IDs, and get in touch with them / send them a text etc.

...but like I said, maybe the 'expert' wasn't so expert in which case I'm sorry to have given wrong info above. But I'm pretty sure I, and serfty above, have it more correct.

Oh, I can just imagine Google and Apple wanting to permanently know who we've been close to, for ever!!

 

[get me outta here]

@RooFlyer, do you remember what you were listening too and if there is a link we can chase down?